162 replies to this topic

[WANTED]

I've been running Victors with XL engine and they have some of my best K/D ratios. I normally would NEVER run an XL on an assault but the Victor seems to shine with them. It's the speed advantage and JJ's with jump twisting in the air that helps. Interestingly enough, I just realized I am a brawler when I thought only Atlas pilots were. I like to get in close POP em and then soak up damage by Jumping high up over enemy point blank and shooting down on their heads with that AC 20. Then keep moving, and Jumping, etc.

Since someone said to run Standard engines for better durability, I'm going to try that out again. I tend to like speed in my mechs and the Victor is the only assault I have cause of that fact. The standard engines really bring that advantage down but perhaps the added durability is something I would like to test.

To the OP, you might like the Victor if you like the Dragon. I was a complete light and medium mech pilot only but now I use the Victors when I want to get that win.

[Void Angel]

AJDux, on 21 January 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

Mkay, so I love my Dragons, I think im pretty deadly in them, multiple AC2's at range with speed just suits me, my stats list 400+ matches in Dragons, but its far higher as I was playing from early Beta.
Almost finished pimping out my last Dragon, so Im looking for my next chassis, and my natural inclination is a Jager, but it kind of seems like a similar role, AC heavy support..... The trouble is I always ending up filling this role in most games, fast and pack a punch, but I dont like getting shot back, I mean WTF is this a fair fight??

So I figure its time to try something different and face my fear of brawling...... Ive wasted far too many C-bills in the past switching chassis, so Id like a little expert advise please :-)

Id count myself as good shot, but not such a great pilot, so probably avoiding JJ's and need something fairly manouverable etc.
Probably not looking to XL, I figure with low XP in this role Ill need all the help I can to stay alive?
I like my AC's :-) so probably something that can fit an AC20


Im put off the Atlas as I know whenever I see one, I have an overwhelming desire to tear its smug face off...... Kind of think id be primary a lot......

Im guessing options are Hunchie, Victor, maybe Centurion? I bought a Phract ages ago, and just plain didnt get on with it, found I died very quickly (probably my piloting....)

Aaaaand discuss :-)

Brawling works differently depending on how exactly you're going about it. You generally have two classes of brawlers, in my view; I call them Primary, and Secondary.

Primary brawlers are your large, punish-taking, damage-dealing builds. The Atlas is (literally, if you count the login screen) the poster child for this style of combat. These builds have (or should have) heavy damage with high sustainability. Avoid weapons which require you to train them on the target for long periods, since this interferes with torso twisting, and use your massive tonnage to simply deal and receive damage at a favorable ratio. Your goal is to place your enemies on the horns of a dilemma - do they ignore your considerable firepower in favor of killing your escorts; or do they focus on killing you while you make them work for every piece of you they take? Brawlers of this type can be slow - and sometimes have to be - but you should always take the biggest engine you can, since engine rating increases twist speed. As an example, this is a primary brawler build for an Atlas. The 325 is the lowest I prefer to go for a primary brawler on that chassis.

Secondary brawlers can also take a licking and keep on ticking, but ideally rely on other 'mechs, or their own mobility, to avoid taking a punch. The archetypical secondary brawler is the Hunchback (paired with an Atlas,) but other chassis, from Mediums up to Assaults, can fill that role. A secondary brawler still maximizes his durability, but he cares more about maneuverability than the ability to sustain his firepower. The Hunchback 4P, for example, has a very high alpha, but can easily overheat during sustained combat. This build is designed to hide (literally, in some cases) behind a building or handy assault 'mech and punish people for engaging his primary. Other builds may combine streaks with autocannons and/or lasers, but the defining characteristic of the secondary brawler is that they can brawl, but not stand up to an assault 'mech or heavy in direct combat very well.

So, with that being said, of the 'mechs I know and love, I recommend two as your first entry into the field: the Thunderbolt, and the Hunchback. I would recommend the Atlas as the premier brawling 'mech in the game right now, but it's hard to get an Atlas in close without taking a lot of damage. It can be done, but the current PPC-Dakka meta makes me hesitate to recommend it as a learning chassis.

I recommend the Thunderbolt because it is quite simply the toughest thing I've piloted short of an Atlas. I've had drop partners spectate me using it ask me, "how are you still alive?" It's more than just tonnage - the Thunderbolt's blocky frame is exceptionally able to interpose locations in front of incoming damage. For this chassis, my beloved Thunderbuddy serves me well as a secondary, or even light primary brawler.

Hunchbacks, on the other hand, are very good at secondary brawling. This is, in fact, the only area in which a Hunchback is not outdone by another chassis. For example, all the Phoenix mediums are slightly heavier, jump, and lack the hunch; Centurion zombie builds are amazingly tough if nobody thinks to leg them - but Hunchbacks have a truly impressive torso twist that enables them to spread damage and focus fire while outmaneuvering larger 'mechs in short engagements. The Wolverine and Gryphon come close in this regard, but though I haven't used them, I don't anticipate their individual quirks will make them hands-down superior - and they don't quite have the Hunchback's variety of possible armaments.

PS: Forgive me if I missed someone else's answer, but it wasn't just you with the Cataphract. That chassis has a large CT, causing them to be much more fragile than you'd expect from their tonnage. On the other hand, they can accept an XL engine very well because of this - Battlemasters, Awesomes, and Victors (I'm told,) share this characteristic.

[Derpington Von Trollington]

Get an Hunchback, brawling with a heavy or assault is easy, but you have to get good to shine in a Hunchback.
Once you become good in a hunchie every other mech will be easy.

[Victor Morson]

AJDux, on 21 January 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

Mkay, so I love my Dragons, I think im pretty deadly in them, multiple AC2's at range with speed just suits me, my stats list 400+ matches in Dragons, but its far higher as I was playing from early Beta.

Dragons are actually pretty bad, as are AC2s; AC5s are far better.

AJDux, on 21 January 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

Im guessing options are Hunchie, Victor, maybe Centurion? I bought a Phract ages ago, and just plain didnt get on with it, found I died very quickly (probably my piloting....)

I'm recommending you pick up a Shadow Hawk. It fills the same niche as the Dragon without the bad hit boxes and hardpoint layout, can fit an AC/20, and also fit AC/5s (or 2s if you continue to stick with them) in varying degrees based on model.

They're absolutely stellar brawler 'mechs, range 'mechs, and anything in between and have a similar style to what you have right now with your Dragon; again, without it's drawbacks and with the added benefit of jump jets. The loss of 5 tons is minimal in this instance.

Derpington Von Trollington, on 25 January 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

Get an Hunchback, brawling with a heavy or assault is easy, but you have to get good to shine in a Hunchback.
Once you become good in a hunchie every other mech will be easy.

Hunchbacks are actually pretty much trash (outside of a niche with the laser model) and I strongly advise against them over a Shadow Hawk.

[Derpington Von Trollington]

Victor Morson, on 25 January 2014 - 11:10 PM, said:

Hunchbacks are actually pretty much trash (outside of a niche with the laser model) and I strongly advise against them over a Shadow Hawk.

Yes Hunchbacks are harder to use than most mechs.
But they are far from bad, they just require you to use your brain.
You can't charge in guns blazing, you HAVE TO learn to protect your hunch, you have to learn to flank, how to torso twist, you need to learn patience and situational awarness.
Sometimes you will blow up without a kill.
Most of the time you will get 1-2 kills and around 350 damage.
Other times you will get 5 kills and 500+ damage, and you will feel awesome, because YOU did it, without good hitboxes, without jumpjets, without ecm.
Just your 50 tons of steel and your skills.

[Void Angel]

I'm going to guess from the partial quote that Victor is peddling his cookie-cutter, knee-jerk wrongness again. The Shadow Hawk is clearly inferior to the Hunchback in the brawling role. Its jump jets are not enough to out-strip its massive inferiority in turso twist range and speed.

The Shadowhawk is a better fast striker, a better light hunter, a better support dakka 'mech. It is in fact inarguably superior overall to the Hunchback - except in this one area where the Hunchback excels. But it has to be "pretty much trash" because it can't support the "autocannon jumper" or "streak-boating light bully" roles so often used in current 12-mans. Clanner, please.

Edited by Void Angel, 26 January 2014 - 01:49 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Void Angel, on 25 January 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

I'm going to guess from the partial quote that Victor is peddling his cookie-cutter, knee-jerk wrongness again. The Shadow Hawk is clearly inferior to the Hunchback in the brawling role. It's jump jets are not enough to out-strip its massive inferiority in turso twist range and speed.

ahahhahahahahahahah.

Jesus Christ man, are you aggressively trying to screw new players or do you really believe that?

The Hunchback is absolutely inferior to the Shadow Hawk in a brawl because:

• Can carry the same ballistic loadouts
  
• Can carry far more diverse effective loadouts (Streakhawks, for example)
  
• Jump capable
  
• Massively improved hit boxes
  
• Both faster & more manuverable

The Hunchback is a piece of trash outside of the large laser variant and that is a very specific niche that I personally am not even really sold on even if it's been successful to a degree. The Hunchback is in no way superior to the Shadow Hawk and anyone telling people otherwise is either trolling them or woefully inexperienced.

Void Angel, on 25 January 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

The Shadowhawk is a better fast striker, a better light hunter, a better support dakka 'mech. It is in fact inarguably superior overall to the Hunchback - except in this one area where the Hunchback excels. But it has to be "pretty much trash" because it can't support the "autocannon jumper" or "streak-boating light bully" roles so often used in current 12-mans. Clanner, please.

The Hunchback only excels in getting it's Hunch shot off. An AC/20 Shadow Hawk with jump jets will wreck an AC/20 Hunchback morning, noon and night.

Derpington Von Trollington, on 25 January 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

But they are far from bad, they just require you to use your brain.

I am using my brain, which is why I didn't buy a Hunchback in the first place.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Void Angel, on 25 January 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

It's jump jets are not enough to out-strip its massive inferiority in turso twist range and speed.

I gave up trying to use the Shad as an AC/20 boat after spending one match unable to hit anyone other than Highlanders and Atlas with it because of the torso twist limitations on it.
You get ANY light mech or even the 2 short mediums right in your face and you literally cannot hit them with the AC.

[Void Angel]

It's still not a bad brawling 'mech, and the mobility you get from jump jets is very nice to have - but the hunchback still wins out in a "support the big guy" role.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Shar Wolf, on 26 January 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

I gave up trying to use the Shad as an AC/20 boat after spending one match unable to hit anyone other than Highlanders and Atlas with it because of the torso twist limitations on it.
You get ANY light mech or even the 2 short mediums right in your face and you literally cannot hit them with the AC.

See, this! This is why we NEED melee attacks! There are few things as annoying as not being able to shoot at a light mech because the short ******* is humping your leg and your mech, despite being described in all lore as being fairly nimble and agile (for a giant machine, that is. One of their advantages over the otherwise much more sensible tank) can't bend at its waist far enough to even see what's going on down below it's navel bolt. All I want is the ability to have my Tunderbolt wind up its leg and punt a spider across the frickin' horizon (or in the case of my Stalker: Lift leg, step down, hear crunch, move on). Is that so much to ask?

Edited by Steinar Bergstol, 26 January 2014 - 06:10 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Shar Wolf, on 26 January 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

You get ANY light mech or even the 2 short mediums right in your face and you literally cannot hit them with the AC.

Learn to jump/glide, man.

[bowlie]

I consider my 4uac5 jager a brawler. It moves slow, but it tears through CT's like they are paper. I guess it depends how you defeine a brawler, bit I get stuck in at close quarters and arent affraid to take damage because I know im dealing more.

[Derpington Von Trollington]

i've just killed an atlas on 1v1 with my hunchback

[Alaskan Nobody]

Victor Morson, on 27 January 2014 - 04:51 AM, said:

Learn to jump/glide, man.

And how does raising your cannon help you shoot lower?

Answer? IT DOESN'T.

[MavRCK]

Victor - AC20, 2 ML or 2 LL with 3 SRM4 - be patient with the LL then under 300m use only the AC20 and SRM4s

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dd773479c16f0d0[/smurfy]

[SaltBeef]

muskrat, on 22 January 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

Salute
I prefer the Orion's ( I have 4) I run
Standard 300
2 large laser
Ac20
2 streak
ams
Bap

Only the O-K does not use the streak, I sub 2 med lasers (no bap)
fun, would be a lot more if I weren't such a terrible pilot.
at my age reflex's just aren't what they used to be

Muskrat

I like the Orion it is a solid mech that can brawl. I remember when it was hitbox shart POS not too long ago! But is is a good mech now. I have never put an ac20 in it always a lbx but may try a ac20 variant. It is a fun mech I agree no slower than a standard 300 engine with a previous quote.

[SaltBeef]

Derpington Von Trollington, on 27 January 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

i've just killed an atlas on 1v1 with my hunchback

Was it today in Blizzard map? I got smoked today by a hunch in my atlas but it was not the skill of the hunchy. I derped and had all my lasers in chain fire mode STOOOOOOPID ME! Boars head Atlas 2 large lasers , 4 med lasers , LBX10, srm 6 That hunchy would have been smoked with 2 60 point alphas to the chest had I had then linked unchained. MY derp. I was being kind also and not trying to target the hunch out of fairness. Since I just got zombiefried 10 times in a row piloting one.

[SaltBeef]

bowlie, on 27 January 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

I consider my 4uac5 jager a brawler. It moves slow, but it tears through CT's like they are paper. I guess it depends how you defeine a brawler, bit I get stuck in at close quarters and arent affraid to take damage because I know im dealing more.

Wish I could see the stats on the mechs I get killed by the most, Jager / cataphract . High rates of ballistic fire that will indeed rip your torso to shreads before your nerfed lasers can respond in kind. Some day I will dust of my jagers and join the blood feast.

[Buckminster]

SaltBeef, on 29 January 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Was it today in Blizzard map? I got smoked today by a hunch in my atlas but it was not the skill of the hunchy. I derped and had all my lasers in chain fire mode STOOOOOOPID ME! Boars head Atlas 2 large lasers , 4 med lasers , LBX10, srm 6 That hunchy would have been smoked with 2 60 point alphas to the chest had I had then linked unchained. MY derp. I was being kind also and not trying to target the hunch out of fairness. Since I just got zombiefried 10 times in a row piloting one.

Not trying to doubt your ability, but I always love it when people say things like "two 60 point alphas" when they have a weapon loadout that contains weapons of different cycle times and weapon styles. Sure, "two 60 point alphas" would be nasty, but your large lasers and medium lasers do different dps and are spread out over time, and your LBX and SRM are also going to spread damage.

Granted, against a Hunchie you'll still wreck him, 120 points is a solid third of his armor and would likely do some serious damage and component destruction. But I've had people talk about "two alphas to get through an Atlas' CT", assuming that the Atlas will just stand there and let it happen.

[SaltBeef]

The mechs were barely moving it was a starefest.