511 replies to this topic

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 January 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

Did you have Months an months playing as a Premade? I started PUGging the same time you registered, As Anton I don't hardly see a name I regularly see as a Lawman. So it is quite possible your Mud Elo is not changed enough to see different names. I had months of drops in group drops can you claim the same?

Serious question, nothing being implied. If you didn't ave a lot of group drops to begin with you may not have that different an Elo score for your 2 accounts.

Correct my elo is uncorrupted. But from a 9k match account to a 100 match account both pug only I see no difference in whom I meet.

[Screech]

Mudhutwarrior, on 28 January 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Correct my elo is uncorrupted. But from a 9k match account to a 100 match account both pug only I see no difference in whom I meet.

I am up to 19 alt accounts now, you are right the pool ain't too deep.

[wanderer]

Quote

I am up to 19 alt accounts now, you are right the pool ain't too deep.

And with all those alt accounts linked to the same player, the pool is shallow enough that you're scraping bottom even faster than the "numbers" imply.

[Xtrekker]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 January 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

I am doing just a couple points better as Joe as I am my PUGs, Created 2 PUG Accounts to see how Elo stacked up as a PUG compared to a Team player. One thing that I found most interesting. No matter how many hours I played, I ran into Lawmen next to never! The common names I see as a 4man are fliers on my Alt Accounts. So I would imagine, my person Elo is somewhat below the average for my fellow Lawmen. Joe's Elo is inflated by being with better players than I am. Evidenced by me not facing the same players on my Alts as I ace as a Lawman. Also I have been losing W/L an KDR points at a slow pace on Joe as many Lawmen are off playing different games. I lost 0.03 KDR and 4% over the last few months PUGging with Joe.

I'm thinking of starting a new drinking game. Any time you see mention of "Law", "Lawman", or "Lawmen" in this thread, take a drink.

[Alex Warden]

i am all for making a public test on the liveserver ...disable grouping for let´s say one week and see how ppl still get roflstomped... that won´t stop the "nerf teamplay" threads popping up, but it would at least give certainty...

matches don´t necessarily end up 12/3 because all those groups (many random TS groups out there) are so pro... it´s more because most puggers run into traps blindly... 2 minutes after matchstart already 4 down is what makes you lose, and you don´t need a premade on the opposition to achieve this ... a premade in YOUR team at least gives you the (sometimes very small) chance to turn it around and still get a win ...

Edited by Alex Warden, 28 January 2014 - 11:42 PM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

As soon as pugs and premades are separate, elitists will fire up proxy accounts so they can go back to stomping pugs. It happens already on a smaller scale.

[wanderer]

lockwoodx, on 28 January 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

As soon as pugs and premades are separate, elitists will fire up proxy accounts so they can go back to stomping pugs. It happens already on a smaller scale.

If the "elitist" doesn't have his buddies via sync drops, the problem is considerably lessened. Thus that earlier suggestion to put a small random delay on queue entry. You can't match up reliably, you don't get your snowball maker.

He's just a better PUG player and the bigger the game size, the smaller his impact becomes when he doesn't have buddies to roll with and has to deal with the same random everyone else does.

[Joseph Mallan]

Xtrekker, on 28 January 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

I'm thinking of starting a new drinking game. Any time you see mention of "Law", "Lawman", or "Lawmen" in this thread, take a drink.

Lawmen, Lawmen, lawman, The Law, Lawmen, Lawmen, lawman, The Law, Lawmen, Lawmen, lawman, The Law, Lawmen, Lawmen, lawman, The Law.

Get drinking {Dezgra}!

wanderer, on 29 January 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

If the "elitist" doesn't have his buddies via sync drops, the problem is considerably lessened. Thus that earlier suggestion to put a small random delay on queue entry. You can't match up reliably, you don't get your snowball maker.

He's just a better PUG player and the bigger the game size, the smaller his impact becomes when he doesn't have buddies to roll with and has to deal with the same random everyone else does.

Odd I made my Alts to see how I'd shake out without a team of Lawmen (drink up Xtrekker) at my back. I found that I balanced out at a different (lower) Elo, but maintained my W/L and KDR

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 28 January 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Correct my elo is uncorrupted. But from a 9k match account to a 100 match account both pug only I see no difference in whom I meet.

Congratulations, you are statistically as good as you are by yourself

Which means you probably haven't moved very far from the starting/base Elo since March.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 January 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

Congratulations, you are statistically as good as you are by yourself

Which means you probably haven't moved very far from the starting/base Elo since March.

No,the improvement has been steady all along. It stalled for a while because of my vision but a new monitor and vid card made a big difference. Bumps in the road were mainly leaning to come off arm lock and judging my shots because i cant see the line and spot well enough. Also never could read the chat font but can half the time now. None of that is thanks to pgi who pretty much ignored anyone having difficulty with vision. Most changes and suggestions came from members of the forum and one very nice founder who called me to walk me through some things I could change after reading a post of mine.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ok. Have you changed the way you play the game between Mud and your Alt? I found that if I play different styles/tactics it affects the win loss(Elo). Worst for me is light energy only mechs. Followed by Medium/Heavy Cav builds. Up to my my Steiner Scout Joe Mallan! Anton has a Jager 40, A Stalker that I try all kinds of configurations with...(right now an 4x Large Laser build) and I think that's it for him right now.

I have never used Arm lock more than 10 matches... Can't help feeling like I'm in a straight jacket.

[Screech]

wanderer, on 28 January 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

And with all those alt accounts linked to the same player, the pool is shallow enough that you're scraping bottom even faster than the "numbers" imply.

You can scrape the bottom and touch the top at the same time. I think it has become fairly obvious.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 January 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

Ok. Have you changed the way you play the game between Mud and your Alt? I found that if I play different styles/tactics it affects the win loss(Elo). Worst for me is light energy only mechs. Followed by Medium/Heavy Cav builds. Up to my my Steiner Scout Joe Mallan! Anton has a Jager 40, A Stalker that I try all kinds of configurations with...(right now an 4x Large Laser build) and I think that's it for him right now.

I have never used Arm lock more than 10 matches... Can't help feeling like I'm in a straight jacket.

No, same type of builds I do well with. My biggest issue is between builds. If I drive the DC then switch to another I have to adjust and usually because of the arm issue my aim goes wacky. I have a couple of fun builds that are more team oriented than damage machines so they score less even though in a team sense they contribute more. Only one had easy mode LRMs. The rest combos energy and ballistics mainly.

[Joseph Mallan]

So... you changed nothing and expected new results?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 January 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

So... you changed nothing and expected new results?

Ever here of repeatability? Was seeing if there was any difference between a 9000 match account and a new one. If i changed the builds it would not work as intended. My elo was lower by far on the noob account and still is so its a pretty good indicator of what intended to see.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 29 January 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

Ever here of repeatability? Was seeing if there was any difference between a 9000 match account and a new one. If i changed the builds it would not work as intended. My elo was lower by far on the noob account and still is so its a pretty good indicator of what intended to see.

Or you have the Same relative Elo score on both accounts. Because you played 9000 games does not mean you have gained or lost a significant amount of Elo points. you need to drop on a team or two for a few weeks, see howt he other player's standing affects your opponents. I went from seeing some decently seated players when dropping with the Law, to rarely seeing them or any Lawmen for that matter. So there is a range of information missing between our tests that needs to be considered.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 January 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

Or you have the Same relative Elo score on both accounts. Because you played 9000 games does not mean you have gained or lost a significant amount of Elo points. you need to drop on a team or two for a few weeks, see howt he other player's standing affects your opponents. I went from seeing some decently seated players when dropping with the Law, to rarely seeing them or any Lawmen for that matter. So there is a range of information missing between our tests that needs to be considered.

Both elos different though so it is differnt

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 29 January 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Both elos different though so it is differnt

We don't know that for sure Mud. Because we don't know our Elo Scores. We can both assume, but without the backing data, you have one test, I have 4, one that ran from when you started playing, and you an I have very different results.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Although I would like a PUG only option, it would make it near impossible for premades to find a match. The matchmaker would want to balance teams and premades aren't always a nice number like 2, 4, 8, etc... sometimes there is a group of 3 or 5.

They could have a PUG only room and a mixed room, but give PUGs who join the mixed room higher C-Bill rewards or XP rewards (to encourage PUG play and help fill in the gaps between the premade teams). Still, that feels a bit unfair and maybe hard to implement.

Overall, I think it might be best to have a temporary PUG only room for new players. Right now there is a C-Bill reward for making it 25 matches I believe, so maybe within the first 25 matches, PUGs can be dropped in matches with other PUG beginners. Gives them a chance to practice with other new players without premade teams. Once they reach 25 matches, into the general room rotation like now.

[Fut]

Thanatos676, on 25 January 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Yes, good idea, lets segregate an already niche game's player base even more by making PUGs and premade's play in separate queues. All this would do is make queue times take even longer, increase the fail to find match rate and make the game less fun. How else can you improve your skills if your not cutting your teeth on people who are better skilled/ More coordinated then you?

Couldn't agree more.

You can't really improve yourself with something like this, if you're only ever competing against people who are equally or less skilled than you yourself.
It's quite important to get your *** kicked, hard, by somebody - it gives you an opportunity to learn.
Take the time to replay the match in your head. What did you do wrong? How did my opponent take advantage of this? How can I avoid this situation in the future? etc... These are all questions that must be asked, but they're all questions that can only be asked after you get stomped..

There's a reason why the term "school somebody" exists as a way to say that you utterly destroyed them.