511 replies to this topic

[Noesis]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

now you're getting it.
it's an eye for an eye mentality. why so angry?
Point being that I don't think it's fair for me to have to dig through duplicate threads or get a good constructive thread and exchange of ideas going only to have one person think they're ida in the exchange wasn't the holy grail they thought it was and go start a "new" thread so everyone jsut has to repeat every thing all over again.

So which came first, the chicken or the egg?

None came at all or shouldn't since you aren't a moderator and none of this should be of any concern to you in prescribing to others how they post beyond the report button to express your concerns to the moderators.

It is not your place as a player to adjudicate these things, and yet in so drawing the conclusions you have you believe you can pseudo moderate the forum for others. Do you realise how arrogant, sanctimonious and hypocritical this makes you when you then freely express and show examples that you can however do as you please.

FFS, leave the moderating to the moderators and talk about the issues. Use the report button by all means, but stop trying to control how the forum should be used when it is not your place to.

[RG Notch]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

You think I have some sort of special power that prevents moderation? If only that were true lol
I just dont' jump up and down and draw attention to it so it goes unnoticed. Sound familiar to anything else around here?

I'm going to let you in on a little secret, it's not anything YOU do. The problem lies with the CM staff and management.

[Noesis]

If PGI/IGP allow these things to occur then perhaps they don't see it as an issue an they have an effective way of filtering these things as needed.

Shame then that players can't simply do the same and allow expression to be entertained as much as possible perhaps. Is it so much to ask to allow people to try and raise their concerns the best way they can and allow moderation to judge the value in context given the forum guidelines they use.

Use the report button by all means, but quit the whining about posting behaviour. Especially when others are more concerned with issues concerning fun "Big Stompy Robots" than being stalked with terms of service issues perhaps?

[Sandpit]

Noesis, on 03 February 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

None came at all or shouldn't since you aren't a moderator and none of this should be of any concern to you in prescribing to others how they post beyond the report button to express your concerns to the moderators.

It is not your place as a player to adjudicate these things, and yet in so drawing the conclusions you have you believe you can pseudo moderate the forum for others. Do you realise how arrogant, sanctimonious and hypocritical this makes you when you then freely express and show examples that you can however do as you please.

FFS, leave the moderating to the moderators and talk about the issues. Use the report button by all means, but stop trying to control how the forum should be used when it is not your place to.

Maybe you missed the part where it should be MY right not to have to weed through all the duplicate posts for various reasons? That's where you mistake things. I'm not a mod, don't attempt to be a mod (if I did I promise you there'd be a lot more report button in my actions) and don't pretend to be.

I DO, however, have the right to expect others to follow the rules so that I don't have to dig through their "I'm special and my idea deserves it's own thread so I can attract support for my specific idea that was already posted in another thread" just to keep a steady exchange of ideas and maybe come up with some constructive ideas on how to make a few changes to MWO.

Case in point? The Narc thread. Was I solely responsible for it? Nope
Were all of the ideas original and.or first time written? Nope
Did we have a constructive thread with a lot of ideas kicked around without 20 other threads on the same subject? Yup
Did we get PGI to make some changes to Narc? Probably not entirely but I like to think the thread helped nudge it

If you and some of the others like you REALLY wanted to help the community and get changes made to make this a better game, then instead of posting a "new" topic every time you decided it needed another thread for whatever reason, you would stay on-topi in 2-3 threads and not defend actions the do absolutely nothing but confuse new players, make it hard to gather feedback, and actually turn into a healthy exchange of ideas that PGI might actually listen to.

So get off your soapbox and stop trying to turn it into "Look! He made a snarky remark on thread 6 of this subject" instead of disregarding the constructive ideas and feedback given in the first 5 threads before giving in to frustration at having to repeat the exact same thing again just so if that thread becomes the new "popular" one those ideas aren't lost in all of the dupes.
You know this is EXACTLY what happens.

You also know that myself and many of the others you accuse of this are eager to get involved in actual discussions about the game because most of the time the ideas that get used or work best come out of compromise and meeting somewhere in the middle, especially when talking about things that will help balance this game for everyone that plays it instead of one portion of the population.

You, varent, myself, and several others were involved in a very lengthy discussion about weapons. A lot of good ideas came out of that lengthy discussion. (Well I thought they were good even if I didn't agree with them) You also know how hard it is to keep up with a discussion like that when you ahve to jump between 5 different threads repeating the same things. So don't act like you don't understand exactly where I'm coming from and why duplicate threads impede that.

Edited by Sandpit, 03 February 2014 - 07:29 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Noesis, on 03 February 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

None came at all or shouldn't since you aren't a moderator and none of this should be of any concern to you in prescribing to others how they post beyond the report button to express your concerns to the moderators.

It is not your place as a player to adjudicate these things, and yet in so drawing the conclusions you have you believe you can pseudo moderate the forum for others. Do you realise how arrogant, sanctimonious and hypocritical this makes you when you then freely express and show examples that you can however do as you please.

FFS, leave the moderating to the moderators and talk about the issues. Use the report button by all means, but stop trying to control how the forum should be used when it is not your place to.

so a person can keep making threads that make no sense, repeat threads of nonsense. these forums are full of them. Its every persons in the community to moderate their environment. hmmmm should i say fool?

i just dont understand how people can be so narrow minded. it makes me wonder if this place is filled with 10 year old's and not adults who have spent years collecting information, wisdom and knowledge. instead the option to be pig-headed is more reasonable to some players as it pulls the illusion of masking their incompetence

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 03 February 2014 - 07:32 PM.

[Noesis]

My "filter" can accommodate current forum use quite happily, at least when it isn't filled up with ToS policing statements all over the place and is actually focusing on more interesting issues relating to Big Stompy Robots, that is where we differ.

Report button should be adequate for you to raise awareness of your opinions to the moderation team of "posting behaviour" that concerns you.

After all I find adults tend to be better with using filters to these issues.

Edited by Noesis, 03 February 2014 - 07:38 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

whether you like it or not, these forums and threads/topics, ect are all viewed by moderators and our peers. the choice to close a discussion is up to a moderator; however the ability to state your case in a clear concise manner is entirely up to you. you can choose to listen to rational conclusions, or you can choose to delude yourself into whatever you say makes sense.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Sandpit even came into my thread of the UI and voiced his opinions. I accepted and understood what the rational was, despite the many viewpoints, this world is going farther and farther away from the intolerable and you better start making sure you can handle and argument without throwing a tantrum-----well, some of you there is no hope. just because you understand another opinion or viewpoint doesn't mean you have to agree but if the facts are to solid then its clear you shouldn't continue to argue, nor should you scorn, we can still lose an argument and remain level headed.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 03 February 2014 - 07:42 PM.

[Sandpit]

Noesis, on 03 February 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

My "filter" can accommodate current forum use quite happily, at least when it isn't filled up with ToS policing statements all over the place and is actually focusing on more interesting issues relating to Big Stompy Robots, that is where we differ.

Report button should be adequate for you to raise awareness of your opinions to the moderation team of "posting behaviour" that concerns you.

After all I find adults tend to be better with using filters to these issues.

and again, you just ignored everything else I said. This is exactly what I was referring to. As always though gl&gh

[BLOOD WOLF]

"what was the point of this thread again? I got lost....-"Sandpit"

UI2.0 isn't the "savior" it's the patch that allows everything else to be implemented"-"sandpit"

I was a little bothered when sandpit posted this, i felt like many people didn't even read what i wrote. I cant blame some of the readers because people wrote insanely long paragraphs of stupidity to oppose what i said and most of them never addressed what i said to begin with.Those same words you used was what the theme of my paragraphs were. I still highly respect sandpits opinions and , even if i didn't agree i would never devalue someones words unless they absolutely make no sense or is straight wrong

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 03 February 2014 - 07:53 PM.

[Sandpit]

BLOOD WOLF, on 03 February 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

"what was the point of this thread again? I got lost....-"Sandpit"

UI2.0 isn't the "savior" it's the patch that allows everything else to be implemented"

I was a little bothered when sandpit posted this, i felt like many people didn't even read what i wrote. Those same words you used was what the theme of my paragraphs were. I still highly respect sandpits opinions and , even if i didn't agree i would never devalue someones words unless they absolutely make no sense or is straight wrong

I just really and honestly do believe that duplicate threads hurt a lot more than they help. It sends a bad image to new players when threads like "EVERY game ends in a stomp" and then a few people post a few screenshots to "prove" it.
Then the next thread is "All I do is get stomped" with the same people posting the same thing and screenshots
Then the next thread 3 or 4 down is "MatchMaker screwed me!" with the same people doing it all over again
and so on and so forth. No it doesn't "help show a problem" it uses hyperbole and noise to make it look like the issue is bigger than it is by posting the same thing over and over again in a "new" thread. Instead of one long thread with a lot of different ideas and opinions it's the same ones jumping up and down hoping they can discredit the other side by saying "all they do is troll posts on this subject and dont' want to help the community"

Then you have the problem of there are tons of other issues that players have ideas on. It's not fair or should be expected of them to have to weed through the entire front page that contains 2-3 subjects and nothing but duplicate threads just to do that. It's ridiculous. This is a community so I think some of the "policing" (since that seems to be the new buzz word) does fall upon us, all of us.

Then you have the fact that PGI does read the forums and they do have people who try to collect feedback. It makes it MUCH harder to do that and get that feedback to the devs when we have 10 threads on the same subject with the same ideas being repeated. Then when a new idea on the subject is presented and it's universally accepted as a "good" idea (i don't really think there are good ideas or bad ideas, just ideas that may or may not work and ideas I may not personally like) it gets lost because some neck beard decided it was more fun to start 3-4 duplicate threads.

Then you have the simple fact that it does nothing but dilute the conversation. It becomes nothing more than a matter of attrition. One side tries to get it where the other side just gets tired of repeating themselves so that they can finally have a thread that shows all of the "support" their idea now has.

It used to be "use the search function" but now that's useless because you can never tell what thread is the current one with the most constructive conversation going on.

So again I say if some really did care about this community and game and helping other players they'd drop their soapboxes and realize it isn't about them nor is it some sort of personal vendetta. Why may it look like that sometimes? Well I'd wager to guess because it's the same people duplicating the threads

[Noesis]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2014 - 07:47 PM, said:

and again, you just ignored everything else I said. This is exactly what I was referring to. As always though gl&gh

Nah I'm just exercising my filter.

Hit the report button if you don't like the fact that I give no authority to you in deciding how I should post and that you fail to see that as such your points can be responded to in this way. At least if I'm not being invalidated just because the response given wasn't what you expected or perhaps wanted.

I understand the issues, yet still you have ignored that it isn't your place to police the forums or other users. Yet you still sit happily in judgement of others posting behaviour.

If PGI see it as a necessity to educate or inform the player base of appropriate posting practice beyond the existing reminders with ToS and forum rules as needed they will do so. But more importantly they will judge to do so, not because you expect it to be how you want it. It is very important for you to understand that it is "their" adjudication to do so.

[Sandpit]

Noesis, on 03 February 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Nah I'm just exercising my filter.

Hit the report button if you don't like the fact that I give no authority to you in deciding how I should post and that you fail to see that as such your points can be responded to in this way. At least if I'm not being invalidated just because the response given wasn't what you expected or perhaps wanted.

I understand the issues, yet still you have ignored that it isn't your place to police the forums or other users. Yet you still sit happily in judgement of others posting behaviour.

If PGI see it as a necessity to educate or inform the player base of appropriate posting practice beyond the existing reminders with ToS and forum rules as needed they will do so. But more importantly they will judge to do so, not because you expect it to be how you want it. It is very important for you to understand that it is "their" adjudication to do so.

Case in point GL&GH Sparky

and sometimes I do get a little frustrated and sink to a lower level I suppose but I like to think most of it's contained to K-Town. I do apologize if I did offend you though Blood

[RG Notch]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

justification

So it's ok for you to break the rules because it's some community service? LOL. Vigilante justice is the best justice. The truly funny part is PGI once said they pay attention when there are a lot of thread on the subject, as usual you reap what you sow. Once again IGP/PGI blundering CM style at work. But please follow their line and blame the players.
Apparently the report button is for the lesser folk who haven't taken to policing the forums for themselves to save the players from themselves. Woe be it for those lessers to complain when the hard working volunteer vigilante squad breaks the rules to protect them from themselves. Thanks.

[Roadbeer]

Allow me to sum all this up.
While the MODs have final arbitration on the subject.
If you feel compelled to create the 272^nd thread about ECM, don't get butthurt that I'm going to be posting "This thread is NEW and EXCITING" for the 500^th time.
Then we'll all get along swimmingly

[Sandpit]

RG Notch, on 03 February 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

So it's ok for you to break the rules because it's some community service? LOL. Vigilante justice is the best justice. The truly funny part is PGI once said they pay attention when there are a lot of thread on the subject, as usual you reap what you sow. Once again IGP/PGI blundering CM style at work. But please follow their line and blame the players.
Apparently the report button is for the lesser folk who haven't taken to policing the forums for themselves to save the players from themselves. Woe be it for those lessers to complain when the hard working volunteer vigilante squad breaks the rules to protect them from themselves. Thanks.

Just as ok as it is for you to continue an off-topic conversation

[Xtrekker]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2014 - 09:57 PM, said:

Just as ok as it is for you to continue an off-topic conversation

http://mwomercs.com/...s&section=stats

C'mon Sandpit, just a few more "thou shalt not" rants and you can beat Roadbeer as top poster today.

I love how Roadbeer and Sandpit are dispensing justice regarding unnecessary posts, and they are currently #1 and #3.

It's Lord of the Flies in here, and Piggy's finally running the island.

[NextGame]

It would be pretty neat if frequently recurring subjects raised by the community (whether people personally agreed with them or not as being an issue) got a listing in comstar focus group in order that there was a central place to discuss them. Otherwise forums gonna forum.

[Mudhutwarrior]

The reason you see so many duplicate posts here is because a certain group of individuals attack on every thread. They dilute any chance of a meaningful conversation on a subject by posting their memes over and over. The intent is not to stop posting of duplicate threads but censor by attack over and over.

These guys thrive and celebrate trashing threads by creating enough discourse and sidetracking to get them moved by K-town. I invite all of you to go there and see the patterns and the players that make all that possible.
And yes the Mods side with this behavior because it works to their benefit and agendas. A year of dealing with this makes it plainly obvious. Creating division in a population works to the leaderships benefit. We see that all around us in real life and here on the forums. Just apply some critical thought and common sense and what is happening here is clear.

I don't blame the posters for creating this climate. Those types of people exist in any segment of population. I fully blame PGI for allowing it to blossom and continue. Either it is intentional or they just don't care.We have to decide that ourselves.

Fire the mods and get ones who will not be arbitrary and capricious in moderation. Then clean up these people seeking to control without authority.

[Gruinhardt]

Basskicker, on 03 February 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

.

Anyways, not so much as directly opposed but saying "we have teamspeak why do we need anything else?".

Where do you get this? Most people I know using TS3 could care less if integrated VOIP was available. They use TS3 because we don't have integrated VOIP.

Basskicker, on 03 February 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

.



Plus there were a couple of solo guys who didn't want it because they have confined living spaces with noise restrictions or little kids running around.

Big difference between don't want and cannot use. I read those posts, not that they were against it, just could not use it.