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So What Will Happen With All Pug And Premade Drops If Seperated By Choice?


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#441 Noesis

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:03 PM

View PostNick Makiaveli, on 08 February 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

My point is that the reason that there is an option to run as a LW is PGI recognized that not everyone wants to be a part of the story, or cares about the lore etc, and so created a role for those who are just looking for a shooter.


Read the thread Sandpit, Nick very specifically states the purpose of the LW role was created by PGI for people who don't want to be invested in the lore. But it is not an original classification for this need at all.

I'm saying that PGI could simply have created this role for the benefit of those who want to play as a soloist LW as recognised from canon. It is in fact therefore a legitimate faction and as a result created for these purposes when they first started to consider or define what potential organisations they might need ages ago. In fact these definitions were even provided well before even the foundations for CW where even a twinkle in the Daddy designer's eye, though I can accept that foresight of purpose hard to decipher in terms of later motivations.

I see little evidence at all then other than conjecture to specify that PGI doesn't recongise LWs as a legitimate faction.

#442 Nick Makiaveli

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:09 PM

View PostNoesis, on 08 February 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:


Read the thread Sandpit, Nick very specifically states the purpose of the LW role was created by PGI for people who don't want to be invested in the lore. But it is not an original classification for this need at all.

I'm saying that PGI could simply have created this role for the benefit of those who want to play as a soloist LW as recognised from canon. It is in fact therefore a legitimate faction and as a result created for these purposes when they first started to consider or define what potential organisations they might need ages ago. In fact these definitions were even provided well before even the foundations for CW where even a twinkle in the Daddy designer's eye, though I can accept that foresight of purpose hard to decipher in terms of later motivations.

I see little evidence at all then other than conjecture to specify that PGI doesn't recongise LWs as a legitimate faction.


Could have. Really? You are basing your argument on they could have.

You haven't done any research therefore you are assuming everyone here is making this up just like you. I am telling you what they told us back in the beginning.

Do you have any idea of what CW will be? Merc units taking and holding planets. House units are a bit unclear, but LW are going to fill in and may or may not get LP for fighting. Originally they weren't but I expect that has changed due to the large numbers of them.

Do some research and stop speculating and accusing others of speculating.

#443 whiskey tango foxtrot

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:12 PM

@ Nick....you are correct , PGI has said " They never planned Lone Wolfs to be an established player mode" and I didn't take anything negative from your comments. ( I was a member of DHB at one time ) I think we will role along as is and offer a place for the solo player to group up whenever they wish...<S> :D

#444 Sandpit

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:14 PM

View PostNoesis, on 08 February 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:


Read the thread Sandpit, Nick very specifically states the purpose of the LW role was created by PGI for people who don't want to be invested in the lore. But it is not an original classification for this need at all.

I'm saying that PGI could simply have created this role for the benefit of those who want to play as a soloist LW as recognised from canon. It is in fact therefore a legitimate faction and as a result created for these purposes when they first started to consider or define what potential organisations they might need ages ago. In fact these definitions were even provided well before even the foundations for CW where even a twinkle in the Daddy designer's eye, though I can accept that foresight of purpose hard to decipher in terms of later motivations.

I see little evidence at all then other than conjecture to specify that PGI doesn't recongise LWs as a legitimate faction.

I'm not understanding then

They did create a "faction" for LWs. I just explained it ala Han Solo. They're free range warriors who can fight for anyone at any time. Those players aren't concerned about factions, lore, history, etc. They want to drop and shoot the crap out of stuff. There's nothing wrong with that at all and will help fill out the player population.
I don't understand what the complaint is then? They're getting what they want. Everyone else who does care about units and such can join house faction, merc units, and (presumably) clans and fight for their particular unit.

#445 Noesis

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:18 PM

View PostNick Makiaveli, on 08 February 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:


Could have. Really? You are basing your argument on they could have.

You haven't done any research therefore you are assuming everyone here is making this up just like you. I am telling you what they told us back in the beginning.

Do you have any idea of what CW will be? Merc units taking and holding planets. House units are a bit unclear, but LW are going to fill in and may or may not get LP for fighting. Originally they weren't but I expect that has changed due to the large numbers of them.

Do some research and stop speculating and accusing others of speculating.


I have no specific evidence no, but considering that from an understanding in lore LWs existed I therefore have no evidence to suggest that PGI wouldn't consider them as a valid faction as a result or more the associated of not being a part of a large group. It is still a valid connection in terms of definable definitions based on the differing groups from canon.

As such it is your place to give credibility and justification toy your claim in the absence of evidence. I offering reasonable and logical doubt to your claims that you cannot substantiate.

I have a good grasp of the how the houses and factions will be associated and have a significant involvment in CW. I also know that not being a member of such groups may minimise opportunities or capabilities for the very reasons your statinf in the game play. So I have done my research.

My point is regarding what LW definitions are not artificial in nature and that they have a legitimate place in canon irrespective of how that place will orientate itself as a part of CW. Whereas you are stating that it never had a valid place by definition and that PGI made it up just to placate a game play style, of which you have no evidence to state this as fact.

Burden of proof is on you.

#446 Roadbeer

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:26 PM

Noesis, since MHW refuses to answer this.
What do you envision the role of LW (solo) players in Community Warfare, OTHER, than filling holes where premades and faction loyalists playing solo don't make 12?

Explain to me how (outside the creation of Solaris) they'll serve any purpose to the game.

#447 Triordinant

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:29 PM

The only ones who fear the premade-free, PUG-only queue are the premades that do horribly against other premades. They can only succeed against uncoordinated (they hope) PUGs where they can use Teamspeak as a crutch.

#448 Roadbeer

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:30 PM

View PostTriordinant, on 08 February 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

The only ones who fear the premade-free, PUG-only queue are the premades that do horribly against other premades. They can only succeed against uncoordinated (they hope) PUGs where they can use Teamspeak as a crutch.

Mudhut? Is that you?

Let me ask you then, what would serve of having a solo queue and how does it play into Community Warfare?
Why would it even serve a purpose to create such a thing when if (in 10 months) the whole point of the game is faction warfare?

Edited by Roadbeer, 08 February 2014 - 01:33 PM.


#449 whiskey tango foxtrot

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:36 PM

PGI does have a LW icon in game , to them a Lone Wolf is a Pup or a Pug they have said as much. Some of us disagree with this attitude, there is a difference , at least to us.I speak only about those of us who are members of our "herd of marvericks".

#450 Noesis

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:42 PM

View PostRoadbeer, on 08 February 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Noesis, since MHW refuses to answer this.
What do you envision the role of LW (solo) players in Community Warfare, OTHER, than filling holes where premades and faction loyalists playing solo don't make 12?

Explain to me how (outside the creation of Solaris) they'll serve any purpose to the game.


Not going to fall into the trap of speculating what. But as mentioned in the launch video and materials at that time it was mentioned that even PUG games could have the potential involvement in the movement of battle lines associated the initial house conflict when that stage was utilised.

As such it does not really state how much of a filler with the merging of queues hows these will align with complete 12 mans or groupings or how this might relate to factional control of planets when this further stage is then achieved.

With the 12 man groups being separeted as now then you could consider that factional control would have been more simplified with how the orientation of players providing support to that objective.

Loyalty points will be of significance to players however as will the influnce of these things even if ideally politics, diplomacy and trust will all have a bearing of involvement with players dropping to achieve either battle line shifts or planetary conquest.

I cannot see a solo player not having some influence in at least deciding which side of the battle line he wants to participate then as a result. And I would see it as more determinable than purely random.

This is less of a concern I guess for the house factions or Mercs under contract even if neutral, as they are either loyal by association or have a specific objective with a contract.

As such I would hope that with the CW game play, the randomness will still be influenced by player choice of affiliations, including Solo players, so it has more meaning than just a random experience.

Interestingly it will beg the question of how loyalty is measured, controlled and inspected to see a LWs associations, even if they could choose to be as neutral as Merc corps. This may raise eyebrows now, but I'm also hoping that incentives to at least become involved in the houses even if not joining a Merc corp will offer incentive to remain loyal to certain concerns. The ideal transition effect being that it is more attractive for players to be affiliated to groups as a result even if not ultimately necessary. But this won't be so apparent I feel to players until we see CW details and there is perhaps more of a reason or purpose to associate yourself with a faction.

E.g. I'm currently on the fence deciding where to invest my MWO experience in the absence of details, but am aware of the stated potential benefits in associating with a more definite faction for CW. This is before considering the intrinsic value of being in a group working towards certain aims even prior to this.

#451 whiskey tango foxtrot

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:52 PM

You just never know when or where 600 or so Lone Wolfs might show up... :D

#452 Sandpit

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:54 PM

Lone wolves will affect planetary boundaries as they drop with factions in CW. I don't see why people are reading more into things?

#453 Nik Van Rhijn

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:55 PM

From what they (PGI) said at the time, it was envisioned that most PUGs would join factions and carry on dropping "solo".
Organised groups were expected to become mercs.
A few were expected to fill the role of Lone Wolf.

#454 Sandpit

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 02:27 PM

View PostNik Van Rhijn, on 08 February 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

From what they (PGI) said at the time, it was envisioned that most PUGs would join factions and carry on dropping "solo".
Organised groups were expected to become mercs.
A few were expected to fill the role of Lone Wolf.

Pretty much. The LWs would just fill out matches at random with no real affiliation. They might drop with Marik one match and the next time they hit launch they might be dropping with Davions against Mariks on the exact same planet.

#455 Nick Makiaveli

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 03:32 PM

View PostNoesis, on 08 February 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:


I have no specific evidence no, but considering that from an understanding in lore LWs existed I therefore have no evidence to suggest that PGI wouldn't consider them as a valid faction as a result or more the associated of not being a part of a large group. It is still a valid connection in terms of definable definitions based on the differing groups from canon.

As such it is your place to give credibility and justification toy your claim in the absence of evidence. I offering reasonable and logical doubt to your claims that you cannot substantiate.

I have a good grasp of the how the houses and factions will be associated and have a significant involvment in CW. I also know that not being a member of such groups may minimise opportunities or capabilities for the very reasons your statinf in the game play. So I have done my research.

My point is regarding what LW definitions are not artificial in nature and that they have a legitimate place in canon irrespective of how that place will orientate itself as a part of CW. Whereas you are stating that it never had a valid place by definition and that PGI made it up just to placate a game play style, of which you have no evidence to state this as fact.

Burden of proof is on you.


First off, it's not cannot, it's I haven't had the time nor inclination to dig it out.

Second, you are taking this way too damn personally. It's like getting pissed that they are only focusing on mech combat and leaving out the far more common conventional warfare.

The game (as pertains to CW) is focused around controlling planets. The merc units will be taking them. House units, based on available info, will fight to help take control. LW players will drop into random matches, again based on available info.

That's it. No judgement, no elitism etc. WTF has a plan to make sure that LW are a faction to be reckoned with, and that's a good thing. But the fact of the matter is there are players who care nothing for the lore, and really don't give a damn that these are mechs and not frames, or suits etc. They just want to drop and shoot stuff. LW is the perfect faction for them as they can just fight and never have to join a unit etc. No groups, no leaders, just fight. That's not me, but it's good they included the option so as to increase the player base.

Lastly, how is it possible that you are a Founder and don't know all this? Did you pony up the case without having a clue?

#456 CB Pilot

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:41 PM

I for one might spend a dime on this game if I see PGI separate PUG's and Pre mades. It will finally show a desire to have the game appeal to new or casual players and not just treat them like fodder for whales and gankers.

If they don't have enough players to have a separate queue, then they will realize how many new and casual players the have lost.

Same reason high school teams don't play vs pro teams.

#457 CB Pilot

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:56 PM

Roadbeer.

Solo, Casual, PUG players will fill the roles of new CUSTOMERS! Without obtaining and retaining more than just what's left of "Evil Premades" this game will loose money (customers) faster than it already is.

CW will be a mute point without money to sustain the game, even PGI is not stupid enough to not realize that they NEED new, casual, solo, PUG customers to stay afloat.

This game has a horrid reputation because PGI and people like you that chase away that HUGE demographic of potential customers.

#458 Sandpit

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 05:03 PM

View PostInsectMech, on 08 February 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

I for one might spend a dime on this game if I see PGI separate PUG's and Pre mades. It will finally show a desire to have the game appeal to new or casual players and not just treat them like fodder for whales and gankers.

If they don't have enough players to have a separate queue, then they will realize how many new and casual players the have lost.

Same reason high school teams don't play vs pro teams.

okie dokie

Good suggestion. Let's separate the queues to "prove" to PGI that their player base is too small to support those changes and they can realize how many players they've lost. smh

View PostInsectMech, on 08 February 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Roadbeer.

Solo, Casual, PUG players will fill the roles of new CUSTOMERS! Without obtaining and retaining more than just what's left of "Evil Premades" this game will loose money (customers) faster than it already is.

CW will be a mute point without money to sustain the game, even PGI is not stupid enough to not realize that they NEED new, casual, solo, PUG customers to stay afloat.

This game has a horrid reputation because PGI and people like you that chase away that HUGE demographic of potential customers.

roflmao

Then we get stuff like this. Sooooooooooooooo
Road is now the reason the game is "dying"

I knew you were evil Road!!!!

#459 Roadbeer

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 05:09 PM

View PostSandpit, on 08 February 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

Then we get stuff like this. Sooooooooooooooo
Road is now the reason the game is "dying"

I knew you were evil Road!!!!


I know right? First I was the reason that GenDesc was dissolved, now I'm the reason that MWO is "dying". If I knew I had that much power, I'd have joined the DNC a long time ago and saved the nation.

#460 Deathlike

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 05:38 PM

View PostRoadbeer, on 08 February 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

I know right? First I was the reason that GenDesc was dissolved, now I'm the reason that MWO is "dying". If I knew I had that much power, I'd have joined the DNC a long time ago and saved the nation.


I'm pretty sure the platform would be: BACON FOR ALL!

Make it happen.



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