540 replies to this topic

[White Bear 84]

Nick Makiaveli, on 26 January 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Second, once a team gets a numerical advantage, it's almost certainly going to steamroll from there. I mean if you are outnumbered 2-1 what do you expect? So the score may start out 1-2 but if it hits 7-3 you can pretty well bet it will end in something like 12-4.

Yeh tends to be the way, although had a match last night where it was 6-2 and our team *somehow* (beyond the stupid things being done and copious amounts of ff) managed to win 12-11! But then lets be honest.. ..that is such a rarity.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Most matches are actually deceptively close, in my experience. Often a couple of people getting killed early secures a numerical advantage or a couple of people who went on a tour of the map ("flanking mission") instead of shooting the enemy would make the difference between losing and winning. Matches may end 12-4 but the living mechs at low health to the point that just 10 well placed shots would have made the match roll the other way.

If you look for it you can spot the turning point in most matches. Matches snowball really fast once that happens, which is why it's so important for players to stick withing firing range of one another so they can focus fire as best as possible in order to start the ball rolling for themselves and defend each other to prevent the enemy doing the same.

[Svidro]

my downstares neigbors r complainin about all the stomping. pgi what r u gonna do bout it.

[Holding in your farts]

Marmon Rzohr, on 31 January 2014 - 12:50 AM, said:

Matches may end 12-4 but the living mechs at low health to the point that just 10 well placed shots would have made the match roll the other way.

Are you kidding me? What an apologist LOL!!!!!! "Just" 10 well placed shots... when 40+ alpha strikes obliterate trial mechs and Artillery/Air strikes one-shot people in the head are the norm. TEN "well placed" strikes might as well seem as far off as the land of OZ where your opinion is concerned.

[Ngamok]

A banana in the tailpipe, on 30 January 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

This account is less than 48 hours old with only trial mechs. So far I've been (placed) in several "premade" matches and two of them with 1000+ damage players. Once I managed to ask where the screen shot button was I started documenting the stomps. Here's one from 15 minutes ago.



So far about every third match is a complete blowout and I keep getting placed with forum gurus who have ELO's that far eclipse my own. I've watched Sephlock get stomped, Russian get stomped, Col Panda get stomped, Ninjivitis get stomped ect and so on. This second account experiment has confirmed that MWO does not have the population to offer proper matchmaking. Hold onto your butts, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Your Alpha Lance is a 4 man. The Tinman is a great shot. People need to kill him first, lol. Aviator was slacking. I will make fun of him.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 29 January 2014 - 09:34 PM, said:

Saying things are gonna be {Scrap} shouldn't make you accept {Scrap}, Sandpit.

I mean, if I tell you I'm gonna kick you in the balls, does that make it OK?

No but it does increase the likelihood I will break your foot if you try it!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 31 January 2014 - 07:39 AM.

[KharnZor]

A banana in the tailpipe, on 31 January 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

Are you kidding me? What an apologist LOL!!!!!! "Just" 10 well placed shots... when 40+ alpha strikes obliterate trial mechs and Artillery/Air strikes one-shot people in the head are the norm. TEN "well placed" strikes might as well seem as far off as the land of OZ where your opinion is concerned.

Nope. They are not the norm sorry but feel free to fuel your own personal drama and as far as opinions are concerned you're already in the land of oz imo.

[Jacmac]

There are two kinds of players in MWO: Temporary targets, and veterans. Temporary targets don't play with a voice comm group, they solo, and more often that not are fairly new to the game. Veterans will some times solo (until they get stomped a few times), but more often than not play with a voice comm group. If you get enough voice comm groups on one side, the 'fillers' (those temporary targets) are frequently going to be on the side with fewer voice comm groups. The side with fewer voice comm groups is most likely to be stomped (if you look at a Bell curve), but there will always be exceptions.

The bottom line is that teamwork, backed by experience and tactics will trump what ever ELO has to say about match-making. The match-making system is pretty much unable to cope with this. The solution would be two type of matches:

Solo-player only matches (fast queue)
Grouped only matches (slow queue?)

All of this has been hashed out repeatedly since the game went into beta. It is quite obvious that PGI has no intention of splitting up players into categories for match-making, they would rather attempt mathematical fixes. If they wanted to stop the complaints about stomps, they would have split the solo players from the grouped players many months ago.

Edited by Jacmac, 31 January 2014 - 08:00 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

A banana in the tailpipe, on 31 January 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

Are you kidding me? What an apologist LOL!!!!!! "Just" 10 well placed shots... when 40+ alpha strikes obliterate trial mechs and Artillery/Air strikes one-shot people in the head are the norm. TEN "well placed" strikes might as well seem as far off as the land of OZ where your opinion is concerned.

You are right, Perspective is almost everything. Just 10 more well placed shots of 40 damage could have changed the course of the game... That is one more Solid alpha from 10 of 12 players. A Jenner with 6 Medium lasers CAN put 30 damage on an enemy A Hunchback-4S can throw 45 damage. A 40 point Alpha is not that difficult to achieve.

[Holding in your farts]

OMG finally not a stomp match! By some miracle the matchmaker placed me with other trial mechs like it SHOULD.

It only took 48 hours and 40+ matches to do so....

[Sandpit]

A banana in the tailpipe, on 31 January 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

OMG finally not a stomp match! By some miracle the matchmaker placed me with other trial mechs like it SHOULD.

It only took 48 hours and 40+ matches to do so....

your enemy composition looks much like the stomps you posted earlier. What was the difference? Except you won this one instead?
What you're actually showing here is elo trumping weight advantage?

Edited by Sandpit, 31 January 2014 - 09:22 AM.

[Holding in your farts]

Sandpit, on 31 January 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

your enemy composition looks much like the stomps you posted earlier. What was the difference? Except you won this one instead?
What you're actually showing here is elo trumping weight advantage?

They had 6 kills across multiple lances, it's full of trial mechs, the team damages are almost all triple digit and respectable.... It was a good even match.

This doesn't look anything like the stomps I've posted in this thread and your questions are invalid.

Edited by A banana in the tailpipe, 31 January 2014 - 09:36 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

A banana in the tailpipe, on 31 January 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

OMG finally not a stomp match! By some miracle the matchmaker placed me with other trial mechs like it SHOULD.

It only took 48 hours and 40+ matches to do so....

LOL in 7 months of PUG action I have seen a Lawman 4 times. I have dropped with Kho and Wispy more times than I have dropped with my own team mates who have inflated my Elo thanks to their ability to win matches!

A banana in the tailpipe, on 31 January 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

They had 6 kills across multiple lances, it's full of trial mechs, the team damages are almost all triple digit and respectable.... It was a good even match.

This doesn't look anything like the stomps I've posted in this thread and your questions are invalid.

And our team had more assists which meant you had better team work than the losing team.

[Holding in your farts]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 January 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

And our team had more assists which meant you had better team work than the losing team.

Tourmaline Desert is a great map for assists due to easy flanking for faster mechs and one of my favorites. I posted that match because despite all the stomps I wanted to show that some even matches do happen.

Edited by A banana in the tailpipe, 31 January 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

I got a 1.22 win ratio on Tour so I wont complain either!

[Sandpit]

A banana in the tailpipe, on 31 January 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

Tourmaline Desert is a great map for assists due to easy flanking for faster mechs and one of my favorites. I posted that match because despite all the stomps I wanted to show that some even matches do happen.

Point being the enemy composition was similar to the stomps you posted earlier. So what changed?

I'm asking what was different about that particular game, because the loadouts are similar so that can't be the reason that one didn't end in a stomp. I'm asking what was the difference in this game that allowed it to be a close game while the others were stomps.

[Holding in your farts]

Sandpit, on 31 January 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

Point being the enemy composition was similar to the stomps you posted earlier. So what changed?

Your point was invalid.

Edited by A banana in the tailpipe, 31 January 2014 - 09:50 AM.

[Sandpit]

I had no point, I asked a question. I asked why did this particular game not end in a stomp. I was wondering what happened that caused you to win this one.

Your enemy composition and friendly team were very similar to the other games you posted. That means you were on a team that closely resembled the others you posted. your enemies were similar to what you faced in the other games you posted. I was wondering what was different about this game that led to you winning instead of getting stomped

[Joseph Mallan]

A banana in the tailpipe, on 31 January 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Your point was invalid.

No idea what the reference is here.

[Sandpit]

The first 3 games
825/795 tons (825 wins 10-2)
935/830 tons (935 wins 10-2)
785/630 tons (785 wins 11-1)
720/875 tons (720 wins 12-6) numbers in () represent number of kills for each team

The tonnages were all decently close (except the last one and the third is kinda iffy in my opinion)

I noticed a few things. In the first three games charlie lance on the losing team performed abysmally. In one game they had a combined damage of less than 100
Charlie Lance Losing
1.)205
2.)759
3.)87
4.)838

Charlie Lance Winning
1.)667
2.)619
3.)745
4.)1111

Player's damage
1. 242
2. 33
3. 2
4. 533

There's a few issues here. First and foremost we have no idea the ELO or skill levels of the players involved. Secondly, we have no context for these numbers. Tailpipe, you yourself go from 2 damage to 533 damage.
In all of those matches the stomps only 1 champion (possibly new players?) in game 2 and only three in game 3.
There were several on both sides in game 4 but you were out tonned by nearly 300 tons (273 tons) and still managed to win.

Those 4 matches show nothing other than presumably the better team won and doesn't show us what caused those stomps. This is what I was getting at. Look at the stats for charlie lance in each of those. You have an entire lance that didn't do enough damage to take out a light mech. That's not a "premade vs. pug" or "elo out of whack within MM", that's simply bad play.

Even with all of the data breakdown that I just did it's still anecdotal. We don't know if you threw a couple of matches to help prove a point (or had others help you do this, not accusing just pointing out why anecdotal evidence proves nothing).

In the game where there wasn't a stomp there was nearly 300 tons difference in the two teams. That's a lot. So we know weight wasn't an issue. The claims of "i'm playing against high elo players out of my bracket" just simply doesn't work. It doesn't work because we have NO idea what our ELOs are, we have no idea what the grouping did to average the ELOs, we simply do not have the data to make statements like that.

I'm pointing all of this out not to say anyone is "wrong" but simply to say this is why anecdotal evidence doesn't work and to show that it may not be premades, elo, MM, etc. that causes a stomp. If that's the case then what is it? Sometimes it's one of these, sometimes it's simply player skill, sometimes it's just the simple fact that 2-3 derps on your team walked out and got caught in a bad spot (IE an entire lance doing less than 100 damage)