540 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Ngamok, on 15 February 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

Our little buddy finally bought a mech and guess what he does with it:

http://cloud-2.steam...4EA3BB525975E4/

Which is exactly why he and his thread are just a load of bull griefing and trolling.

[Sephlock]

Sandpit, on 16 February 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

Which is exactly why he and his thread are just a load of bull griefing and trolling.

Don't blame him, there was a banana in his tailpipe, causing the heat buildup...

[Roughneck45]

I can't wait for some tonnage balance

[KharnZor]

Sephlock, on 16 February 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

Don't blame him, there was a banana in his tailpipe, causing the heat buildup...

Bads will be bads.

[Sephlock]

KharnZor, on 16 February 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

Bads will be bads.

Wait, it was a THUNDERBOLT?! The poor guy... .

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Sandpit, on 16 February 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

Which is exactly why he and his thread are just a load of bull griefing and trolling.

This isn't even my thread lol. Anything to keep that post count up there eh Spampit? Even if it means senselessly bashing posters along with the rest of the veteran goons who turn most threads into stomps when they don't meet your narrow way of thinking. Posters constantly spewing hate like "L2P nub gtfo" along with mouth breathers claiming "bads will be bads" are a cancer that has driven away most of this community. I bet you all feel special for the role you play in it. I know I do exposing it.

Sephlock, on 16 February 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

Don't blame him, there was a banana in his tailpipe, causing the heat buildup...

Yeah don't blame my bro he's a total nub (What you're looking at is when he borrows my rig to play and this is what it looks like when I'm playing his mechs to try them out.) and as usual when the chest thumpers get uppity with him I've got to step in and crack some skulls. Hell I'm not even sure you two have played together since I'm not always here when he borrows my rig but as for us, the better lock always wins and we know who that's been the last few times I've seen you. When I get back to playing we'll have to team up so you can enjoy winning a match for once.

Edited by lockwoodx, 20 February 2014 - 06:46 AM.

[Sephlock]

lockwoodx, on 16 February 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

Yeah don't blame my bro he's a total nub and as usual when the chest thumpers get uppity with him I've got to step in and crack some skulls. Hell I'm not even sure you two have played together since I'm not always here when he borrows Memy rig but as for us, the better lock always wins and we know who that's been the last few times I've seen you. When I get back to playing we'll have to team up so you can enjoy winning a match for once.

I remember me winning one, and then you winning one ;P.

Also, its been a while since I last saw banana, is he just in a different ELO bracket or what?

[wwiiogre]

Every game is not a stomp, but most are. I had three actual close games in a row the other day. I was shocked. So was the other person dropping with me.

My first ten drops I was dropping in my firestarters, grinding them up thru elite. All 10 were stomps or roflstomps.

Then my friend logged on and we switched to hvy/assaults. Immediately we started having close games. Its amazing that when you drop in assault/hvy mechs the games start getting easier. Because you are not in your light mech with your elo being placed against someone in their assault mech with the same elo. Instead you get to wear the other shoe and 80% of the time stomp or roflstomp the competition. We lost 2 games of our next 10 and only 3 were close. One we lost, the other two we won, including capping against a team for the win when we had three mechs left and they still had 9 all hvy/assaults and our three were lights. Oh we were out tonned by 400+ tons, but we stole a win.

That was Saturday, today only got some games in. All were stomps winning by more than 4+ mechs or roflstomps winning by 8+ mechs. None of the games I played today were balanced in any way whatsoever meaning, mostly lights and new players vs premades in hvy/assault mechs.

So once again, matchmaker is working as intended, because in PGI's version of ELO a brand new person in a light mech is the equivalent of an elite player with 4000+ drops in a cheese meta built assault mech as long as their elo is close. And according to PGI, 4 players in hvy/assault cheese meta mechs dropping as a premade 4man team are equal to 4 new players in light mechs dropping solo if their elo's are close enough.

So please Sandpit, try to debate me on how a new player in a light mech with an average ELO because that is what they start with is the same as you or me dropping in our assault cheese mech if our elo is similar or close enough? Its not, and that is why PGI's matchmaker is broken and not only completely broken its asinine and a piss poor excuse for social self esteem building by manipulating win/loss records while throwing out even an attempt to make fair or balanced matches.

Chris

[KharnZor]

lockwoodx, on 16 February 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

scrub talk

Meh. bads WILL be bads.

[wanderer]

Fun match today:

We got three heavies and a bunch of mediums.

The other team got six Atlases plus a mix of heavies (Phracts and Jagers) and one medium. One.

We killed the medium. 1-12 loss. ggclose, right?

The tally for today's matches? One 5-9 cap win, one 11-12 win, 3 cases with a 12-5 one way or the other, and the rest were 12-4 or worse, one way or the other. About thirty matches in all.

Without weight matching and an ELO "matcher" that reaches so wide I see games with 5-6 Trials vs. vets in the best the meta can offer, I get the feeling that it would actually give better matches if it simply randomly selected players entirely at this point. That's how poor the matchmaker is at this point, I think. It's getting to the point where I can look at the lineup and know when the MM has put together a "sacrificial lamb" group for a near-guaranteed loss.

[KharnZor]

wanderer, on 16 February 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

Fun match today:

We got three heavies and a bunch of mediums.

The other team got six Atlases plus a mix of heavies (Phracts and Jagers) and one medium. One.

We killed the medium. 1-12 loss. ggclose, right?

The tally for today's matches? One 5-9 cap win, one 11-12 win, 3 cases with a 12-5 one way or the other, and the rest were 12-4 or worse, one way or the other. About thirty matches in all.

Without weight matching and an ELO "matcher" that reaches so wide I see games with 5-6 Trials vs. vets in the best the meta can offer, I get the feeling that it would actually give better matches if it simply randomly selected players entirely at this point. That's how poor the matchmaker is at this point, I think. It's getting to the point where I can look at the lineup and know when the MM has put together a "sacrificial lamb" group for a near-guaranteed loss.

Thats pretty much my thoughts on the subject

[MischiefSC]

That's it, random matches again!

Good plan I guess? I spent the double XP weekend clawing in XP for my locusts (doomed, DOOMED I TELL YOU) and it would be cool to go back to the old way for a while. Winning 18 out of 20 matches (which was literally what we did. On average we'd win about 80 to 90% of the time if you drop in a 4man) and get my KDR back to somewhere between 2 and 6 depending on the mech. Hell, with the current meta being even more PPC/AC dominant I could probably get to an 8.

We already did that. If we still did that I would literally have a win/loss of ~4.0 to 4.5 and an insane KDR. I'd be small potatoes compared to some of the better teams who'd only lose when they played trash mechs.

I just find it funny that some people need to believe that the MM is stacking games against them. This need to feel that they're losing because the system wants them to lose.

You know what? Sometimes you get a bad hand. That's inevitable. Games are not balanced because everyone gets dealt the same cards every game - it's because you have the same odds of getting a good or bad hand as everyone else. Your Elo score is a representation of how well you deal with the hand you're dealt.

Is there room for improvement? Absolutely, I've said so and made recommendations as such. All this simpering about how sometimes it seems like one team is better than the other and that's the only reason you lose or that if one team wins by more than 4 mechs it's a 'stomp' is so absurd that in general I don't argue it anymore for the same reason arguing with flat-Earthers is just silly. It implies that the debate has two sides.

Not in this game or any other is there any conceivable way for every game to be perfectly evenly matched. You wouldn't want it even it it was possible; there'd be no way to improve or show improvement. You'd always be playing against an exactly equal team. Without a chance to show how you deal with adversity, against an opponent with better odds of winning than you, you have no serious potential to display advancement or competency.

Elo change for a perfectly matched game is ~0. Your odds of getting dealt a good hand or a bad hand are exactly and precisely the same odds as everyone else. Learn to play better with the hand you're dealt or get used to disappointment. Pretending that all wins or losses are prearranged by some system playing favorites isn't simply wrong, it's bizarre.

New players need put in matches with and against more experienced players or they'll never learn the meta. Experienced players get fewer and fewer the higher up in Elo they get so inevitably when player populations are low they'll get pushed into lower and lower Elo matches. In the same way that out of every ~1000 times you flip a quarter you'll get heads 10 times in a row, sometimes you'll have good streaks and bad streaks. They even out, just as they do for everyone else.

Elo however works pretty well in the matchmaker for getting a decent average of challenging matches. The very nature of 12 v 12 will always ensure that 10 to 12 or 11 to 12 matches are the exception, not the rule, as disparity in firepower is an exponential advantage. This isn't an issue with the matchmaker it's a mechanic inherent to any PvP team game.

I get that some people need to cry that it's someone elses fault when they lose or when they draw a team that makes poor choices. I get that. That the universe is unfair and if things don't go their way it's someones fault and it should be fixed.

That's not a matchmaker issue though, nor an issue that PGI has the tools to fix. That's fixed by competent psychotherapy and the aid of a professional. Take some ******* accountability and learn to deal with adversity because the times that the odds play out in you getting an uneven match in MW:O is a long mother ******* way from genuine unfairness or imbalance. It's a tiny representation of the inherent nature of probability and it plays out in how often you stop at traffic lights, automobile accidents, errors in payroll accounting and 99% of the things that happen to people in the course of being a human living in a society. If you can't handle the odds not always playing out in your favor in a game then please, for the love of all that's holy, get off these forums and go get the professional help you're going to need before something real and serious happens to you in your life.

[Sephlock]

MischiefSC, on 16 February 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

That's it, random matches again!

Good plan I guess? I spent the double XP weekend clawing in XP for my locusts (doomed, DOOMED I TELL YOU) and it would be cool to go back to the old way for a while.

I'd advise you to use UAVs and artillery strikes- you may end up losing money if you have a streak of bad games in your LCT-3S, but you should be able to turn a decent profit in the other two Locusts.

Or you could make the LCT-3S an LRM locust and try things that way.

[MischiefSC]

Sephlock, on 16 February 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

I'd advise you to use UAVs and artillery strikes- you may end up losing money if you have a streak of bad games in your LCT-3S, but you should be able to turn a decent profit in the other two Locusts.

Or you could make the LCT-3S an LRM locust and try things that way.

My best build, honestly?

TrolLocust. I sold all but the V because, well, Locusts are trash and I was an absolutely *idiot* for buying the Overlord package but why not.

So a V with 4MGs and 1 Flamer. You stick that flamer in the guys face and spray him with MG rounds. I took it over 60 matches with over a 1.0, which isn't too bad. It's just not a killer.

Same with the others. I can use them to spot, UAV or drop strikes but they're inferior in every conceivable way to a Spider or Jenner. Not by a little, not by 5 or 10 or 15 tons worth, but utterly and completely. Like Tbolts or the Phoenix Battlemaster 1G they're just sub-standard at best. Low end of average if you really, really work at it. Take a Spider, or a Jag, or a Victor or Highlander. or Cataphract. Or Orion. Or Stalker. Or Atlas. Or Shawk, really. Hunchback. Hunchbacks will out-perform Tbolts pretty consistently. Raven. Raven is better than Locust, hell better than a Tbolt with a little effort. Probably average more kills than a BM 1G. So, most mechs.

Not to get off topic but yeah, I can do alright with spotting and strikes but I can do that in anything. I can do it in my ECM spider from a position of stealth. Had a match earlier where I used TAG for the 6 newbie Stalkers on my team on Caustic. Like watching the heavens part and the Finger of God extend down to smear out mechs. Three of them were dead before they truly realized just how screwed they were, they took the wrong side of the caldera and had nowhere to run for cover. A few rushed over the center and got cut down, some just scattered. I did less than 100 damage but had 11 assists and had to be like 20 TAG XP bonuses. Can't really do it so well without the ECM and when you get caught in a Locust, well, you need help close by.

[Sephlock]

MischiefSC, on 17 February 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

Can't really do it so well without the ECM and when you get caught in a Locust, well, you need help close by.

You have to play the metagame .

EVERYONE goes rushing after the Locust with extra fervor because one good strike to the legs will net you an easy kill. Tease them until they chase you into a teammate firing squad!

(Note, I'm not trying to say they're good, I'm just trying to make lemonade out of lemons ).

[MischiefSC]

Sephlock, on 17 February 2014 - 12:13 AM, said:

You have to play the metagame .

EVERYONE goes rushing after the Locust with extra fervor because one good strike to the legs will net you an easy kill. Tease them until they chase you into a teammate firing squad!

(Note, I'm not trying to say they're good, I'm just trying to make lemonade out of lemons ).

Agreed. I admit, I've grown a little fond of my V now. You can draw 4 or 5 mechs off chasing that easy kill and there's just something about killing people in a freaking Locust. Especially when they get disoriented from the flamer and turn to *run*. It can be satisfying.

I've been avoiding meta lately. Trying to stay entertained but it's difficult not to run face first into some poor design and balance choices there and get irritated.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Hellen Wheels, on 16 February 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

Back in the day, I played a few years in the chess scene. Played a few tournies a year, only Class B and a piker, but it was fun. One tourney, I got paired against The Walrus...a portly, long time Life Master, several times champion of the Dallas Chess Club. I knew it would be a stomp, he knew it would be a stomp, but the "Good Luck" and "Good Game" he delivered was just as gentlemanly as if he had played an IM.

Problem with the internet, you can't tell if the guy on the other side of the screen has class or not. I just pretend they do.

I don't. I think when it comes to video games its mainly people just wasting time disconnected from reality. Meanwhile the world is falling apart and everyone wonders where civil society has gone.

Not to say there are not good people here just that the worst amongst us attempt to dominate that space bringing the level of play into the gutter. The devs should be aware of this and work to moderate that from happening. PGI does not do well with that and complicates the challenge more than corrects it. So focused on adding features and mechs they loose the bubble of what a good match consists of. If you think its bad now wait until they bring CW in with the terrible imbalances that exist now. They don't tweak fast enough to keep it consistent and let little issues grow into greater problems. Add in their bunker mentality and its quagmire unlimited.

Back when it was simpler it was easier for them to get a handle on things but now its pretty much out of control. The Nerf apocalypse is coming with CW. The writing is on the wall.

[Craig Steele]

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 February 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

I don't. I think when it comes to video games its mainly people just wasting time disconnected from reality. Meanwhile the world is falling apart and everyone wonders where civil society has gone.

Not to say there are not good people here just that the worst amongst us attempt to dominate that space bringing the level of play into the gutter. The devs should be aware of this and work to moderate that from happening. PGI does not do well with that and complicates the challenge more than corrects it. So focused on adding features and mechs they loose the bubble of what a good match consists of. If you think its bad now wait until they bring CW in with the terrible imbalances that exist now. They don't tweak fast enough to keep it consistent and let little issues grow into greater problems. Add in their bunker mentality and its quagmire unlimited.

Back when it was simpler it was easier for them to get a handle on things but now its pretty much out of control. The Nerf apocalypse is coming with CW. The writing is on the wall.

Gosh,

This is a bit doom and gloom isn't it??

You need to watch the Two Towers again,

Sam: I know. It's all wrong. By rights we shouldn't even be here. But we are. It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.
Frodo: What are we holding onto, Sam?
Sam: That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo... and it's worth fighting for.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Craig Steele, on 17 February 2014 - 04:59 AM, said:

Gosh,

This is a bit doom and gloom isn't it??

You need to watch the Two Towers again,

Sam: I know. It's all wrong. By rights we shouldn't even be here. But we are. It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.
Frodo: What are we holding onto, Sam?
Sam: That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo... and it's worth fighting for.

So the good is mechwarriors?

[Joseph Mallan]

wwiiogre, on 16 February 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

Every game is not a stomp, but most are. I had three actual close games in a row the other day. I was shocked. So was the other person dropping with me.

My first ten drops I was dropping in my firestarters, grinding them up thru elite. All 10 were stomps or roflstomps.

Then my friend logged on and we switched to hvy/assaults. Immediately we started having close games. Its amazing that when you drop in assault/hvy mechs the games start getting easier. Because you are not in your light mech with your elo being placed against someone in their assault mech with the same elo. Instead you get to wear the other shoe and 80% of the time stomp or roflstomp the competition. We lost 2 games of our next 10 and only 3 were close. One we lost, the other two we won, including capping against a team for the win when we had three mechs left and they still had 9 all hvy/assaults and our three were lights. Oh we were out tonned by 400+ tons, but we stole a win.

That was Saturday, today only got some games in. All were stomps winning by more than 4+ mechs or roflstomps winning by 8+ mechs. None of the games I played today were balanced in any way whatsoever meaning, mostly lights and new players vs premades in hvy/assault mechs.

So once again, matchmaker is working as intended, because in PGI's version of ELO a brand new person in a light mech is the equivalent of an elite player with 4000+ drops in a cheese meta built assault mech as long as their elo is close. And according to PGI, 4 players in hvy/assault cheese meta mechs dropping as a premade 4man team are equal to 4 new players in light mechs dropping solo if their elo's are close enough.

So please Sandpit, try to debate me on how a new player in a light mech with an average ELO because that is what they start with is the same as you or me dropping in our assault cheese mech if our elo is similar or close enough? Its not, and that is why PGI's matchmaker is broken and not only completely broken its asinine and a piss poor excuse for social self esteem building by manipulating win/loss records while throwing out even an attempt to make fair or balanced matches.

Chris

Its called attrition. Your team kills one of my team mates, now two of you can teamup on a second. That guy goes down under combined fire and nuw three of you can gang up on a third. It is the natural progression of how fighting is supposed to work.It is not unnatural. In fact it is exactly how it is meant to work. Respawn is counter productive to normal attrition. This is how stomps happen your team gets an edge and my side does not adjust. Game over GG.

I don't type GG myself, If you won and you GG I am cool with it. If you rolled us... Well we did not give you a good game so I don't see a reason to try and make YOU feel better... You already won!

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 February 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

So the good is mechwarriors?

Some not all Mister Mudhut.