111 replies to this topic

[John MatriX82]

Chemie, on 29 January 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

two words: stock armor

many useless and only a few will be OK

See clan mech...shoot its legs with 6 armor.

^This

I know older games weren't that good for BT lovers, but I really enjoyed my Summoner and Hellbringer back in MW4.

Here I already know that the Summoner will have less armor that what I can put on a ShadowHawk. So.. it's not gonna happen EVER in my mechbay.

I may stand that I can't change the engine, nor the basic DHSs nor other upgrades like FF and Endo. But armor values should be customizable, I may understand that I can't shift armor from the rear to the front in Clanmechs, but hell I must be able to raise those poor values to their max, I don't care if this means I'll have 26 or 30 points in the rear, it will just mean I'll tank some damage also with the back.

Another concern is about lights.. they look very slow, ok for the payloads but. Meh.

Finally, basically only the Summoner D or the Dire Wolf B have some sort of high-mounted hardpoints. The rest is all low-mounted so if PGI will ever make me come back to this game (something it's already hard given their humongous times in fixing stuff -I'm still waiting to see SRMs fixed after what? 7 months?!-), give the paper armor of the Summoner, probably only the Dire Wolf is something I'm interested.. the rest is meh.

Edited by John MatriX82, 30 January 2014 - 01:52 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Josef Nader, on 29 January 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

tl;dr PGI is implementing Omnimechs almost word-for-word from the rulebook. I'm not quite sure where everyone got this bizzaro notion of Omnimechs from, but they don't resemble the ones in Battletech at all.

Yeah brilliant ... only thing you forgot to mention is that in BT IS mechs are not supposed to be customized AT ALL. Do I need to say more?

[RedDragon]

Would you guys get your facts straight for god's sake? You're acting like PGI, only reading the facts you like and ignoring everything else.
Omnimechs are no more customizable than Battlemechs in BT, except for the weapon pods. Naturally you can't swap engines and armor, but that is also true for Battlemechs. So if we have fully customizable Battlemechs, there is no reason why only Omnimechs should get restricted by their stock eninge, armor etc.

[NextGame]

don't like it, they are too inflexible with armour and engine limitations.

[C E Dwyer]

I like the idea, but then clans not my thing

[Procyon Alpha]

I don't see the clanners with a little less armour to be inferior. They will have higher alpha and longer range, with better heat disapation. They maybe a bit slower due to the inability to change engines, but then again clan XL engines...humm can't just knock off one side torso to kill them.

I keep looking at it and in truth the clans are still going to be tough to deal with, but there needs to be some weakness to their design for it not to be a weapons race at least in this game.

I would like to see a work around, where clan chassis have a MM weight offset by 25% to 50%. That would at least give you the MM difference since they will not limit drop size for clan only drops vs IS. Well it's just a thought.

Edited by Yeshua Kerensky, 30 January 2014 - 03:04 AM.

[gorgotz]

i am not only sad to see them implement them, but the way they are doing it is all wrong. when this project started we were promised alot of things. but where are they ?? i would have loved to see a story driven battletech game starting from the begin og the star league and then progressing to the invasion of the clan. and can someone explain why i should pay 500$ for a gold skin mech. the price is out of this world. i love this game really much. but i would have married it, if only PGI had given us what they promised, im personally going to wait for the standard varients of the clan mechs. because untill they give us what they promised im not gonna pay 1$.

[DI3T3R]

I don't get what you guys are whining about. Stock armor and stock reactor? There could be a simple cure for that:

MASTER YOUR CLAN-OMNIMECH!

[Snoopy]

Josef Nader, on 29 January 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

tl;dr PGI is implementing Omnimechs almost word-for-word from the rulebook. I'm not quite sure where everyone got this bizzaro notion of Omnimechs from, but they don't resemble the ones in Battletech at all.

Regarding the Rulebook :

There is a difference between

• modification of an BattleMech / OmniMech
  
• configuration of OmniMech podspace

Please check the region of the Rulebook for both, not only how OmniMech podspace can be changed.

Regarding the "almost word-for-word":
The current plan for MWO-OmniMech (Clan only or IS too?) are upside down to the BT lore and TT ruleset. If you check the rules and lore you will work out ....

Modification of an BattleMech / OmniMech

• needs a workshop or Mech factory (depending of modification level)
  
• needs a master tech and/or Mech developer
  
• needs (general) long time
  
• costs money and needs new (and maybe unique) components / parts to be created
  
• depending on the modification level everything can be changed
  
• available for all Mechs (BattleMech and OmniMech)

Configuration of OmniMech podspace

• field modification
  
• only basic tech level needed
  
• needs only minutes to change podspace (on-the-fly or between two engagements)
  
• no money, exchange of standard components / parts (BAP, ECM, JJ, HS, ...)
  
• only items defined in the "OmniMech podspace configuation" rule set can be changed (it's not a modification of the Mech after all)
  
• available only for OmniMech

[Appogee]

OP: good post.

I can't imagine they will enforce stock armor. We already have double armor and 1.4 DHS and other variations due to the requirements of balance.

Vanguard836, on 29 January 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

Waiting to have more info given before casting any judgment on any of it.

A good policy.


Move along, nothing to whine about ...

/cue dramatic music

... yet!

[Cybermech]

do you guys know that PGI have been communicating with the guy who made the TT game right?

you realise that the guy who did it always thought clans where implemented wrong?

just saying..

also it is far too early for this conversation to have any value what so ever.

to the OP.. its not TT deal with it

[w0rm]

BREAKING NEWS: Clan Stock Mech Invasion halted on first contact by a a lone company of HGN733C's. Clan representatives are shattered by the utter defeat they faced. Rumours of widespread aquisition of IS Mechs by various Clans give rise to the IS stock market.

So yes. Most clanmechs are gonna be DOA (97 Kph Kit Fox ) or at least vastly inferior to IS Mechs in the current state of the game.

[Josef Nader]

PhoenixFire55, on 30 January 2014 - 02:13 AM, said:

Yeah brilliant ... only thing you forgot to mention is that in BT IS mechs are not supposed to be customized AT ALL. Do I need to say more?

Ah, good. The next thing I need to find in my books. Battlemechs could be customized, no problem, it just took months to do. There are rules for calculating how long it takes to change parts of a battlemech.

Omnimechs, on the other hand, are modular and built off a base variant. In order for an Omnimech to do what makes it special, all mechs of its designation must share the same parts. You -can- change the engine, armor, and crit slots of a tabletop omnimech, and it takes about as long as it takes to modify a battlemech... but in doing so you must convert the omnimech to a battlemech, and all the pod space becomes locked in and can no longer be changed like an omni.

tl;dr You can absolutely modify battlemechs, and you can modify omnimechs in the same way, but omnimechs rely on modularity and modifying one removes their modularity, turning them into battlemechs.

[PhoenixFire55]

Josef Nader, on 30 January 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

Battlemechs could be customized, no problem, it just took months to do.

Its not really customizing, its practically building another mech. Point was and remains same, Clan mechs (omnimechs) are supposed to be more customizable or at least just as customizable as IS mechs (battlemechs). With IS we have fully customizable mechs, with Clan PGI wants limitations. Well I call BS shenenigans.

[DI3T3R]

w0rm, on 30 January 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

BREAKING NEWS: Clan Stock Mech Invasion halted on first contact by a a lone company of HGN733C's. Clan representatives are shattered by the utter defeat they faced. Rumours of widespread aquisition of IS Mechs by various Clans give rise to the IS stock market.

So yes. Most clanmechs are gonna be DOA (97 Kph Kit Fox ) or at least vastly inferior to IS Mechs in the current state of the game.

Do you really think, players would buy Kit Fox and Adder later, when they could buy Fire Moth/Mist Lynx/Viper/Ice Ferret in the first package?

[TehSBGX]

I'm guessing PGi is gonna budge on the Armor issue. Everyone is right, without the ability to touch the paper thin armor The Clan "Invasion" is going to be a joke.

I'm pretty much picturing this.

Super ultra mega Clanner Ubermensch, "OH GAWD A BOOM JAGER! IMMA SCARED!!!!!!!!"

[Zyllos]

This is how you fix the Omnimech customization issues vs Battlemech:

• Fix pin point convergence
  
• Add hardpoint sizes to Battlemechs
  
• Allow Omnimechs to change weapon pods during pre-game lobby

Doing this does a number of interesting mechanical and balancing quirks.

The pin point convergence has been talked to death. Not much needs to be said about this other than it needs to be changed. This will help the Omnimech's static armor allocation values.

Hardpoint sizes has also been talked about quite a bit, especially here lately now with the current idea for Omnimechs out. This really helps emphasize the tradeoff of Battlemech's chassis vs Omnimechs pods. Want to play that 35t mech with an AC/20 on this specific chassis? Go right ahead, because a Battlemech player will have to play the Hunchback, 50t, as the lightest mech to play with an AC/20, at least until the Hollander gets released.

The ability to chagne pods during the pre-game lobby is a very interesting mechanic. It allows Omnimech users to be flexible to other's loadouts and the environment, allowing a high amount of cohesion that Battlemech's static chassis can't compete against. Happen to bring 4 ballastic mechs and have to fight in a cold map? Well, expect those Omnimechs to be customized to take advantage of this.

[MustrumRidcully]

Josef Nader, on 29 January 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means








Pulled straight from my Techmanual PDF.

tl;dr PGI is implementing Omnimechs almost word-for-word from the rulebook. I'm not quite sure where everyone got this bizzaro notion of Omnimechs from, but they don't resemble the ones in Battletech at all.

While you're at it, it might not hurt to cite the spots in the Battletech rules where it states that non Omni Mechs can be easily changed in armor, structure, engine and weaponry, free of charge.


Not that I am upset. I just wonder if it's a sensible limitation and will actually work in gameplay. It could very well be that some mechs, due to those limitations, will be dead on arrival. But that will depend on a lot of factors - maybe a poorly balnaced clan weapon set will ensure that eve maxed out IS mechs cannot survive more than one alpha, and everyone will start stripping his mechs so they can add some extra firepower. (Seems unlikely, though.)

[Mechteric]

They've stated that they may make some changes if balance requires it.

For instance, perhaps they'll allow you to change your engine rating, but not allow switching between STD and XL

Perhaps they'll allow you to increase/decrease your armor, but not add/remove Ferro/Endo.


Sounds fine to me, if it turns out that too many restrictions causes the clan mechs to not be competitive with the amount of customization IS mechs can have.

[Bagheera]

SpartanFiredog317, on 29 January 2014 - 11:11 PM, said:

Fine in Table Top but in a Mechwarrior Online environment where EVERY SINGLE Inner sphere mech will have near max armor it quite possibly could make Clan mechs Inferior.

Every single IS mech that runs an XL engine is destroyed when you destroy the side torso. Clan XL engines are immune to this, at least canonically. It remains to be seen if MW:O retains this advantage.