54 replies to this topic

[GhostWalkn]

It's a pretty simple build I think. It's very slow with an STD 270 and highly armored at 592. It will probably overheat with only 4 double heatsinks.

Four medium lasers used because they are only 1 ton each and respectable damage. Since that will overheat, there's a pair of AC5s with 2 box's of ammo.

For long range there's a pair of LRM20's and 3 box's of ammo.

There's also an AMS system.

Straight to the point, does this build have any potential or is back to the drawing board? It's the first build I've put together (for the past few hours) that I think perhaps could work, but I have not much experience.

[Pat Kell]

I would change out the lrm 20's for 15's, and add a couple of tons of lrm ammo and maybe a heat sink or 2 depending on how much tonnage you get back. It's got potential but try it out and see what weapons are working best for you and try to tweek it towards favoring those weapons.

Edited by Pat Kell, 01 February 2014 - 01:13 AM.

[Modo44]

You have two very ammo-hungry weapons systems. Consider switching to one big gun or lower LRM versions.

Going below STD300 on an Atlas makes you a much too easy target. Consider using Endo Steel to boost the engine rating.

You have way too much back armor, and the legs could be stripped more.

Basic upgrade with LRM15s, Endo Steel and modified armor values: take this.

[GhostWalkn]

Here's the revision. I switched to the XL engine because swapping LRM20's for 15's free'd up that space. With the spared weight I switched to single heatsinks and put them everywhere, the quad lasers need it. Armor remains the same but speed is up. All over 30vs40 missles fired... and yes, there's more ammo! (720 missles, and 90 AC5 shells)

As a side effect there's no room to CASE the ammo. Yes it's slow, so I kept a lot of back armor. I didn't even want to shed a nickel of plating. Perhaps the core will go before the legs do, but I'd only save a tiny bit of weight if I shed leg armor. If I change the structure it completely changes the ballistics and missles systems - or I lose a ton of heatsinks.

Originally I didn't envision using the Atlas but I respect it regardless and it turned out the highest ton mech had the easiest loadout, in my eyes.

Edited by GhostWalkn, 01 February 2014 - 01:32 AM.

[Modo44]

An XL engine on an Atlas is generally a bad idea. Good players will inevitably target the right torso, and blow you up easily. (C.A.S.E. does not help with that.) I think you forgot to add double heatsinks. If you want to save weight, Endo Steel is preferred to an XL engine in most situations.

[Basskicker]

If you're determined to run Lrms in an atlas there are a couple of things you are going to need. First, BAP(defeats a single enemy Ecm and gives more sensor range). Second, Artemis(reduces the spread of damage Lrms or Srms will do when impacting the target, very important since you are firing 40 Lrms out of 16 missile tubes). Third, more ammo (same goes for those ammo hungry Ac/5s). Fourth, TAG(Gives you much quicker locks). Another thing is you don't want to spread your ammo all the way across your mech. You have your Ac ammo on your Lrm side and your Lrm ammo on your Ac side... If just one of your side torsos gets blown off then you are effectively done for the match. With your build and the one I'm about to post you will have to be very disciplined if you want don't want to run out of ammo before the match is halfway over. This here is what I would do if I were you, even then I believe it needs a higher engine and an Ac/20... but I've never been a fan of a non-brawling atlas anyways . http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5fd1697553bfbd8 Sorry if it's hard to read, but I'm doing this on my phone and for some reason I can't get it to go down a line.

Edited by Basskicker, 01 February 2014 - 01:53 AM.

[GhostWalkn]

I've narrowed some selections down and I think we're getting closer! The only real problem with this build is the lack of heatsinks. But by sticking with the STD engine and having ballistics, missle, and AMS ammunition cased, surviveability greatly increases. Since I ran out of slots and had left over weight, I "waste" 1.5 tons on the 305 engine. But it sounds cooler than the 300 >.>

Comparing #1, #2, and #3?

I think the first and second have the same problem. The ammo is not cased properly. The second then has the XL engine as well...

The third just has a low energy profile. But the missle and energy systems are not designed to be used at the same time, I think it could work. In any event it's much safer.

So let's kill #1 and #2 altogether. how are we looking? I think it's a faster and highly durable mech, but it may be a cooker.

Lastly, spare the budget This a no-budget build of course. I still need 5M c-bills to afford this!

Edited by GhostWalkn, 01 February 2014 - 02:03 AM.

[Modo44]

Click on the build link I provided in my first post. With Double Heatsinks, you can go up to STD325, take slightly more ammo, and get much better cooling. That 1.5 million Cbills is really worth it for all mechs.

[JigglyMoobs]

Having run every version of the atlas, elites 3 and mastered 2, I would strongly advise new players against getting any atlas at all at the current time. For various reasons the game has turned very unforgiving for atlas pilots. You will have much less frustration buying something like a shadowhawk, a jager, a hunchie, a cataphract or a victor. They are cheaper too.

If you have to go with an atlas, at least go with a DDC so you get some protection from lrms and some stealth.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 01 February 2014 - 02:15 AM.

[dragnier1]

When choosing an engine, consider:
1. Top speed and turn speed depends on engine rating
2. Increase in speed vs weight + price (does 305 engine give your atlas an acceptable speed increase against weight gain versus the 300 engine?)
3. Engine heat sinks increase by 1 per 25 engine rating until 250 engine (as per TT). After which, the engine can store 1 additional heat sink per 25 engine rating.

Also consider that not many people destroy atlas legs, so it is generally safe to place your ammo in the legs and head. Heat rating for mechs from 1.3 are generally acceptable. It translates to about 35% upwards on smurphy.

Personal suggestion from me: change dual ac5 to a single ac so you can fit artemis for lrms, or downgrade lrms to make way for more ac5 rounds + heat sinks. About 5-6 tons of ac ammo is needed for dual ac5s, assuming you last long in battle.

JigglyMoobs, on 01 February 2014 - 02:14 AM, said:

Having run every version of the atlas, elites 3 and mastered 2, I would strongly advise new players against getting any atlas at all at the current time. For various reasons the game has turned very unforgiving for atlas pilots. You will have much less frustration buying something like a shadowhawk, a jager, a hunchie, a cataphract or a victor. They are cheaper too. If you have to go with an atlas, at least go with a DDC so you get some protection from lrms and some stealth.

I totally agree. Using my atlas or stalker feels like an old man walking around with a stick...

Edit: If you already own one, all is not lost. Using an atlas will teach you a thing or two of the do's and don'ts for slow mechs, so no need to restart a new account.

Edited by dragnier1, 01 February 2014 - 02:23 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Also a pair of ac5s will never be satiated by 2 boxes of ammo, and will provide no close range protection vs lights until you get something like an std 340 or 350.

The 2x lrms will never work with just 3 tons of ammo. For these reasons you cannot hope to do both dakka and 2xlrms. If you do lrms equip artemis, energy weapons and lots and lots and lots of ammo. At least 1000 rounds. Stay near team mates for protection vs lights.

If you go dakka go dakka all the way and do dual uac5 with large lasers and std 350ish engines. The balanced builds don't work. Some one will always figure out a Way to kill you quickly.

[GhostWalkn]

I'll only have one more post after this, but here goes:

For build 4 I knew I had to change that 305 for a 300 and get my 1.5 tons. I kept the 300 still because it has 2 heatsinks whereas anything less has 1. Then I took the above note and swapped to double heatsinks. This spared 4 tons altogether so I upgraded all 4 medium lasers to pulse lasers. It also has one more cannister of missles than build 3. That's pretty much it for changes.

At this point I don't *want* to change much of anything to this build (or scrap it altogether), but I fear with the new pulse lasers heat will be even more critical.

However that point about the legs is interesting, and maybe moving ammo to the legs I can afford to buffer the AC5s to Ultras and LRM15's to 20's IF I figure out the weight.

Edited by GhostWalkn, 01 February 2014 - 02:28 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

You want double heat sinks. Trust us.
I don't own any assault mechs, but when you do buy this mech, keep a mental note of your paper dolls when you die. Are there area that always end up with plenty of armor left? If so, you can safely cut some off. (Or better yet, learn to torso twist and use that armor defensively!)

[TheCaptainJZ]

I also suggest keeping the normal medium lasers over the pulse lasers. They have twice the range and less heat and only slightly less damage.

By all mean though, experiment with your mechs! Find what you like!

Edit: Here's what I would start with first after purchasing. It retains most of the weapons that came with it so you don't have to buy everything right off the bat. I also think you'll enjoy having weapons in all ranges.

Edit2: I forgot to increase the ammo. You would definitely want to increase it.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...62e0d1991bab6d3

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 01 February 2014 - 02:46 AM.

[dragnier1]

I'm assuming now that you intend to stick with dual lrms + dual ac5s. As of your latest build, you can't change to uacs as you don't have free crit space.

Decide which will be you main weapon, lrms or ac5. Allocate more ammo to it. The only way you can tell if it works is by bringing it to battle. Try it a few rounds, then make your conclusion from there.

Edit 1:
Maybe i'll add my experiences. I use dual ac5 on my shadow hawk, 5 tons ammo. Can't stand around shooting for long, others notice me quite quickly. If i last long enough i run out of ammo, since i fire often, whether i can get a hit or not. If i'm defending, it can make the slower mechs back off. I also use an lrm/streak srm catapult. Usually when i fire without seeing the target, he hides to lose missile lock. My best chances are usually when i see my target, since i use artemis, or if i can get a visual of him by jumping. Really fast mechs waste my lrms unless they jump high (some spider users like to do that).

Edit 2: I'm thinking maybe you're trying to use all the weapon hardpoints available. It's not necessary to do so. For example, victors come with missile slots but most owners ignore them.

Edit 3:
Try this: drop 1 med pulse, change remaining 3 to med lasers. Drop case. add 1 more ton of ac5 ammo. Remove Endo-steel.

Edited by dragnier1, 01 February 2014 - 03:38 AM.

[Modo44]

Pulse lasers will be pretty hot and short-ranged, which is why I chose to upgrade the engine instead of the weapons in my suggestion. Either way, you have a solid basis now. You might want to test the details of specific ammo/cooling/speed/firepower configurations in matches. Some of that will change based on your own preferences/playstyle.

[GhostWalkn]

I guess this is my final post (when can I get no posting restrictions!?). Actually I can make another post... anyway I'm having a lot of fun putting together these builds, lol

So I swapped from the Atlas to the not too different HighlanderC

What separates this from that is I haven't quite put all my eggs in one basket. This monster has 4 weapon systems, an Endo structure, AND an XL engine. How in the heck that I fit in all that? I'm not really sure, but Ammo count may be the only real problem with this mech. There are only 2 cannisters of each fitting, and 1.06 spare tons. I'd prefer an extra ton of AC ammo and I even have that one ton, but no slot... but there is a pair of heavy ER lasers, so I don't think two SRM6's or one LRM20 will go through a couple tons ammo all that quickly.

Without the endo structure and XL engine there's no way I'd spare the weight for all of those guns. I'm surprised there's as much ammo as there is. And there's still an AMS.

Both mech have AC5s... at range or up close they'd be pretty similar, but I think the highlander leans toward closer ranges and the Atlas would at longer ranges. But both are flexible, this one is HIGHLY (cough) versatile

yeah you could just change everything again but the SRM6s are so powerful for only 2 slots, how could I resist? the only real "waste" is the LRM20 but I had to have something besides just a couple of lasers for distant pecking. That said if I got three SRM it would basically become a close range brawler and I'd have more ammo, if I could use it all

here it is...

Edited by GhostWalkn, 01 February 2014 - 04:00 AM.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

The problem with running multiple different ammunition-dependent weapons is that you run out of weight with which to store the ammo. 60 rounds will not be enough for a dual AC/5 Highlander. With SRM6's, I find that x+1 tons is the ideal amount of ammo, where x is the number of SRM6's. And LRM20's just weigh too damn much!

This would be my modification to your latest build. I lowered the LRM20 to a 15 (both for 3 tons saved and more efficient damage/ton), and moved it to the torso slot to take advantage of tube count. On the arm, your 20 would fire in two bursts and make it easier prey for AMS. Firing 15 missiles all at once out of that 20-tube-max launcher in the torso means more missiles will get through. I increased ammo counts for all weapons, as well as your engine to 325.

It could still run cooler, and a lot of people would say you need jump jets as well, but it's a step further.

Edited by Arnold J Rimmer, 01 February 2014 - 04:15 AM.

[MavRCK]

I think a couple points should be made.

An assault shouldn't be an LRM support dps mech without a dedicated team.

Mixing srms and lrms is generally bad.

That said, in your atlas, if you had to run it - try no less than a 300 std engine - try an ac10 - move ammo to legs head etc.

Your highlander choice is solid with er LL and lrms but again... As ive explained in my videos support assaults are a waste of an assault. You're d oing your team a disservice.

In my guide check out gman's suggested builds.

[Redshift2k5]

GhostWalkn, on 01 February 2014 - 03:49 AM, said:

I guess this is my final post (when can I get no posting restrictions!?). Actually I can make another post... anyway I'm having a lot of fun putting together these builds, lol

When you complete your first 25 matches and graduate from being a rookie you will remove posting restrictions.