1026 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

TheMagician, on 06 February 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

Now you have machine guns, PPCs, UAC5s, AC20s, ac5s, large pulse, strks, and Ac10s.

lol... I don't even touch Large Pulse om principle alone. I have better use for a PPC, LL, or ERL in MWO's current state of the LPL.

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If they want forced mech variety, then they'll have to add that part in Community Warfare. For example, perhaps the only mechs 'available' in a certain battle are Awesomes, Dragons, Battlemasters, and Commandos. Trial versions/champions avail if people don't have their own will solve any issues of not having the chassi.

Forcing people to use bad mechs will not get them to like the game more... if anything, those mechs will be complained about more because they are unfortunately inferior due to various flaws and imbalances.

Changing hitboxes for the first two mechs, has not actually improved their overall usage, so at the moment... whatever Paul is doing so far for them, is simply not good enough.

Edited by Deathlike, 06 February 2014 - 09:46 AM.

[wanderer]

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WHY NOT JUST PUT TONNAGE LIMITS???? UHHH HELLO, PROBLEM SOLVED.

Which problem you think it'd solve, for starters?

[cSand]

I just wanted to point out to some folks that by "nerf gun" he doesn't mean a gun that nerfs game aspects. Te actually meant one of those foam dart shooters you get in Toys R Us.
You know.. play on words and all that. Not actual nerfing. Changes to JJs.
...sigh

Edited by cSand, 06 February 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Imperius]

pbiggz, on 05 February 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

When reality finally catches up with you, oh lord, I just hope i'm there to watch the fireworks.

Agreed I've seen nothing amazing from them except I can count on 4 733c's pop tarting pugs in the "super high" ELO bracket that none of us are ever in, yet I seem to land in when we lose a few matches we run into the Lords of Free Stats.

[Fang01]

Ryan Steel, on 05 February 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

I may have an animated way of saying what I have to say, but it's pretty clear that you have nothing objective to say about Paul's move because you're not good enough at the game to understand how it works at its very core. A lot of you guys think nerfing something is going to solve a problem that you're confusing with another. The problem isn't the highlander or poptarting, it's that we're in them and we poptart. That's why we are challenging the devs and you guys by calling for a complete highlander/poptart/assault nerf or whatever you guys want to prove it to you. If you guys want to ruin your game by solving non-issues then great. I find poptarting pretty boring tbh and can't wait to move on to other things. I say buff something else to make other things competitive, but you guys think you know best, so go on.

You can act as smug, sarcastic, or indignant as you want, you know I'm right and have absolutely nothing to say to prove me wrong.

And yet when presented a challenge in the form of a locust you demurred completely. Were YOU as good as you claim and not simply bloviating, YOU'D take up the challenge to be great in anything. Not just FOTM.

Must suck never enjoying the game because you've trapped yourself into a certain playstyle all because its "competitive"

[Bacl]

Convergeance, dont think anyone mentionned it up until then, you know after you just used your jumpjets your reticle is big so you cant target the CT every time or even miss your target? Cant believe no one tough about that before.... I AM YOUR NEW GOD, KNEEL BEFORE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by Bacl, 06 February 2014 - 09:57 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 06 February 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

Must suck never enjoying the game because you've trapped yourself into a certain playstyle all because its "competitive"

No it doesn't. It's fun wholesale slaughtering people running bad builds, honestly.

MechWarrior begins in Mechlab, not the cockpit.

Edited by Victor Morson, 06 February 2014 - 09:56 AM.

[wanderer]

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Look, I think we can all agree that it should require more than 1 JJ to get a 90,80,or he'll even 70 ton walking tank off the ground. Make me make choices in my highlander. If I have to spend 6 or 8 tons to get this monster off the ground suddenly I am forced to make sacrifices in weapons, armor, heat sink and engine size. Suddenly the mech is waaay less efficient

One jet should be fine for getting a mech off the ground. What it should be doing is giving you barely any mobility whatsoever in the process and a turnspeed that would make an Urbie look like a Spider. Basically, just enough to get on top of a small building or clear a minor obstruction- that is, 3m/sec of safe movement assuming a 10 second burn, 6m/sec if we go with a 5 second burn for JJ's, 8.6m/sec (rounded) if it's a 3.5 second burn with a single jet. That's 30 meters of movement from a single jet in a single burn per jet per 10 seconds of burn time- straight up from TT. Tweak as needed, and if people are willing to not save fuel for a landing to stretch a jump, let them take leg damage hitting the ground- or if they take a hard enough impact, knock em down.

Limit jets to engine rating/tonnage maximum, rounded down instead of arbitrary number limits. Thus, a Highlander with a 280 engine can carry a maximum of 3 jets, and we don't have slowpoke Spiders someone decided to slap 12 jets onto cause PGI's mechlab is borked.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Victor Morson, on 06 February 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

No it doesn't. It's fun wholesale slaughtering people running bad builds, honestly. MechWarrior begins in Mechlab, not the cockpit.

Yeah but don't brag about it, if that's the only way you win.

And if someone challenges you to a match in a non-Meta mech, you better do it or you look like a punk.

[Fut]

Ransack, on 05 February 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

What? The Highlander does not need nerfing. You have already Nerfed it multiple time indirectly with Ghost heat PPC nerfs, JJ shake, movement archetypes and SRM's that you refuse to fix. What's left, cutting the armor in half?

To be fair, all of the things you listed "indirectly nerf" most Mechs.

[Ozzy Stormlight]

this thread is hilarious    .....
paul is playing w/your heads, boys.....  and i think he got what he wanted out of you guys.....
...i know im laughing about it....HAHAHHAHA!!
trolls will be trolls
btw ... love this game    i've been here since the start and will be here to the end....  keep trying PGI/IGP  ...one day they wont have anything left to say but how awesome this game really is...

[Deathlike]

Victor Morson, on 06 February 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

No it doesn't. It's fun wholesale slaughtering people running bad builds, honestly.

It's not always fun, as if you're saddled with such a player on your team, then you have to cover for their downfall. I do chuckle at the bad builds, but unfortunately more often than not, they do turn into easy kills. No rationale can fix that.

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MechWarrior begins in Mechlab, not the cockpit.

Quite.

Also, anyone trying to challenge players into a Lolcust contest, is being a bit disingenuous. Might as well have asked for "TAGs and NARCs only builds". I guess it would be better than an Awesome PPC staring contest.

[HammerMaster]

It is not the highlander. It is the Jump Jet Implementation.

[StalaggtIKE]

A brief history of our battle against the metagame:

• Hexa PPC builds (ghost heat)
  
• PPC/Gauss builds (Gauss Rifle charge & JJ shake)
  
• PPC & AC10/AC20 builds (AC10 & AC20 velocity nerf)
  
• PPC & AC5 builds (???)

Notice a common variable? Yes, the PPC. It was nerfed once, however apparently it wasn't enough. I think the PPC should have another passover as well.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 06 February 2014 - 10:14 AM.

[wanderer]

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Just try it without being able to fire while jumping, and not allowing them to turn any faster while jumping then they would normally. Although I think some people will be bothered by it, and loosing their Meta. I think the majority of your player base will like the increased amount of depth it will add to the "alpha" mech line up. It will probably start to resemble traditional battletech a lot more also.

I have zero problems with firing while airborne. I have all the problems with being able to fire pinpoint-accurate while jumping.

Far as turns while jumping? Treat jets like you would engine rating- for turning purposes, each jet is worth "engine rating" equal to the tonnage of the 'Mech, and adjust turning accordingly while airborne- sorry kids, it's harder to move easily with a flying brick. So a single jump jet on a Shadow Hawk would produce abominable twist/turn speed in the air, while having five would be enough thrust to allow you to move far more naturally. 'Mechs with fewer jets would be less agile in the air (including reacting to fire at targets or shield themselves), ones with more would act more like they belonged up there to begin with.

[3rdworld]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 February 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Yeah but don't brag about it, if that's the only way you win.

And if someone challenges you to a match in a non-Meta mech, you better do it or you look like a punk.

http://www.marikcivilwar.enjin.com/

I cannot speak for anyone else, but lots of the "competitive units" play non meta a lot. In fact there is an entire league dedicated to it.

One thing of note: The best units in the "meta" league are also the best units in the "non-meta" league.

[DocBach]

wanderer, on 06 February 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

I have zero problems with firing while airborne. I have all the problems with being able to fire pinpoint-accurate while jumping.

Far as turns while jumping? Treat jets like you would engine rating- for turning purposes, each jet is worth "engine rating" equal to the tonnage of the 'Mech, and adjust turning accordingly while airborne- sorry kids, it's harder to move easily with a flying brick. So a single jump jet on a Shadow Hawk would produce abominable twist/turn speed in the air, while having five would be enough thrust to allow you to move far more naturally. 'Mechs with fewer jets would be less agile in the air (including reacting to fire at targets or shield themselves), ones with more would act more like they belonged up there to begin with.

this, plus we have different classes of jump jets based on the tonnage of the 'Mech, right? Make the higher class jets for larger 'Mechs sluggish and less responsive keeping jets nimble on the lights.

[wanderer]

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Notice a common variable? Yes, the PPC. It was nerfed once, however apparently it wasn't enough. I think the PPC should have another passover as well.

Actually, the common variable is weapons that deliver a frontloaded, precise strike that can be boated.

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Hexa PPC builds (ghost heat)

• PPC/Gauss builds (Gauss Rifle charge & JJ shake)
  
• PPC & AC10/AC20 builds (AC10 & AC20 velocity nerf)
  
• PPC & AC5 builds (???)

The PPC, Gauss, and the three AC's listed all share that quality- a shot that when it makes contact delivers it's full damage to a single location, unlike lasers (burn time), LB-X cannons (scatter), or missiles (again,scatter- and LRMgeddons happen when LRMs end up configured NOT to scatter much.).

It's the same song, just being played on whatever instruments are easiest to do so. It's like saying the fix to poptarting is to nerf the Highlander (yes,I know Paul wasn't saying that). The cure is realizing that such weapons are as dysfunctional as old-school MW hitscan lasers were, merely with different graphics at this point.

Lasers were fixed by preventing that instant, frontloaded damage- and the fix to PPC's and AC's needs to roll along similar channels.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

3rdworld, on 06 February 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

http://www.marikcivilwar.enjin.com/

I cannot speak for anyone else, but lots of the "competitive units" play non meta a lot. In fact there is an entire league dedicated to it.

One thing of note: The best units in the "meta" league are also the best units in the "non-meta" league.

That wasn't what I was referencing.

This was a specific person and another specific person who posted earlier.

[wanderer]

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this, plus we have different classes of jump jets based on the tonnage of the 'Mech, right? Make the higher class jets for larger 'Mechs sluggish and less responsive keeping jets nimble on the lights.

No need if you simply tie the max number of jets to engine rating, rather than arbitrary numbers.

A Highlander will be as clumsy or clumsier on the bounce as it will in the air- in fact, if you use my formula, a Heavy Metal (90 tons) maxes at a 330 engine rating. 330/90, rounded down is 3 (it'd have to be able to use a 360 for 4). The HM would therefore turn and twist in midair, assuming it had the max jets at a rate equivalent to 90 (it's tonnage) *3 (number of jets) = as if it had a 270 engine rating while jumping, rather than the 330 rated turnspeed it has on the ground. Two jets would leave it turning like a min-engine 180 rated layout, and one jet would leave it as clumsy as a pre-engine limit minimum-engine design- absolutely atrocious, in other words.