66 replies to this topic

[MadCat02]

So you will need to destroy 2 Side torsos or Center torso to destroy Clan XL engine .

Thats not even risky enough to run XL engine .


90% of time you will die without loosing 2 side torsos . Escpically assault mechs rarely loose both side torsos before going down .

The hole logic is reversed.

Instead of taking the shortest root to destroy XL engine you will either have to destroy center torso or take the longest root and destroy 2 side torsos .

I will never use a Standart engine again . 35% more free tonnag is well worth beeing killed from 2 side torsos .

Clan XL Example:

Shortest root to killing ATLAS

Center Torso about 105

Dostroying 2 side torsos about 140

Not counting internal armor .


ISphere XL Example:

Shortest root to killing ATLAS

About 70 armor from side torso

........................................................

So really Clan XL is almost 35% less likely to explode .


I just don't see CLan XL engine having enough of a risk not to use it on all mechs .

Outrages CB pricess on clan technology will not limit it fromcompletly braking balance .


....

Perhpas CLan XL should weight a bit more than IS . At least 20% . It will still be better than IS XL .

Or istead of occuping 2 slots on each side it should be 4 on each .

CLAN XL needs a drawback .

Edited by MadCat02, 13 February 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[NextGame]

Guess we will all be going for the ct when the clans come out.

[SI The Joker]

Um, I thought you won't be able to change out the engine, no?

Point moot, then?

[Tombstoner]

Same as always then. I regard the change as a positive. It makes Clan mechs viable. Otherwise they will need the equivalent of TT range / damage advantage to compete.

[Roland]

The reason it doesn't work real well in MWO is because they haven't implemented engine crits.

Because that's the REAL way you kill an engine.. you get 3 crits on it.

That means that on a clan mech, you don't actually need to destroy both side torsos and the CT.. you just need to breach the armor on some of those sections, and crit the engine 3 times in any section. It's stronger than an IS XL engine, but not as much stronger as it will likely be in MWO without the engine critting system.

[Joseph Mallan]

MadCat02, on 13 February 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

So you will need to destroy 2 Side torsos or Center torso to destroy Clan XL engine .

Thats not even risky enough to run XL engine .


90% of time you will die without loosing 2 side torsos . Escpically assault mechs rarely loose both side torsos before going down .

The hole logic is reversed.

Instead of taking the shortest root to destroy XL engine you will either have to destroy center torso or take the longest root and destroy 2 side torsos .





Clan XL Example:

Shortest root to killing ATLAS

Center Torso about 105 ( 114 with with Ferro fibrous )

Dostroying 2 side torsos about 140 ( 154 with Ferro )

Not counting internal armor .


ISphere XL Example:

Shortest root to killing ATLAS

About 70 armor from side torso ( 76 with Ferro )

........................................................

So really Clan XL is almost 35% less likely to explode .


I just don't see CLan XL engine having enough of a risk not to use it on all mechs .

Outrages CB pricess on clan technology will not limit it fromcompletly braking balance .

Been this way for 30 years... why is it a problem now? Before it it even introduced???

[MadCat02]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 February 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

Been this way for 30 years... why is it a problem now? Before it it even introduced???

Just because its been that way it dosen't mean its not wrong .

This is a PvP game where we strive to achive blanace . Clan XL engine is much better than IS XL and for 35% free tonnag 35% more likely to die is hardly a risk .

Khobai, on 13 February 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

Its not a problem. Clan XLs are supposed to be that good.

The problem is IS XLs suck. Pinpoint aiming makes them too easy to destroy because you can target someones side torso and shoot it for 30+ damage. And keep doing that till theyre dead.

It is a problem because i will never use a Standart engine again

[Xoxim SC]

You are taking the risk as an IS mech using XL engines, a KNOWING RISK. What options do clan mechs have in regards to their engine choices? 0. So why should clan mechs be punished anymore than what they are? The engines are perfectly fine.

[Joseph Mallan]

MadCat02, on 13 February 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

Just because its been that way it dosen't mean its not wrong .

This is a PvP game where we strive to achive blanace . Clan XL engine is much better than IS XL and for 35% free tonnag 35% more likely to die is hardly a risk .



It is a problem because i will never use a Standart engine again

I could agree but, it has been perfectly fine for 30 years, both on TT and in the previous video games. Even during PvP play.

XL Engines are 50% lighter not 35%.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 13 February 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

MadCat02, on 13 February 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

So you will need to destroy 2 Side torsos or Center torso to destroy Clan XL engine .
Shortest root to killing ATLAS

Center Torso about 105 ( 114 with with Ferro fibrous )

Dostroying 2 side torsos about 140 ( 154 with Ferro )

Not counting internal armor .

...wait


why are you adding more armor with ferror? It just makes the armor lighter

[Khobai]

Quote

It is a problem because i will never use a Standart engine again

youre acting like you even have a choice. clan mechs cant change engine types.

only IS mechs have the choice. so XL vs standard only needs to be balanced for IS.

[MadCat02]

mwhighlander, on 13 February 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

...wait


why are you adding more armor with ferror? It just makes the armor lighter

Ferro fibrous Armor gives you 0.7 to 2.0 free tons depending on mech .

It also gives 14% more protection . I think PGI changed it to 12% though

[Khobai]

Quote

It also gives 14% more protection . I think PGI changed it to 12% though

FF only weighs less, you get 12% more armor per ton. it does not give you any damage reduction.

[Joseph Mallan]

MadCat02, on 13 February 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

Ferro fibrous Armor gives you 0.7 to 2.0 free tons depending on mech .

It also gives 14% more protection . I think PGI changed it to 12% though

true but that does not mean I get to put more armor on my Atlas than it already has. Just that it weighs less.

[MadCat02]

Khobai, on 13 February 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

youre acting like you even have a choice. clan mechs cant change engine types.

only IS mechs have the choice. so XL vs standard only needs to be balanced for IS.

I never said Clan tech have a choice . Right none of my mechs are Clan mechs so its safe to asume that majorety of my mechs will me IS .

I said Clan XL needs to be balanced .

Khobai, on 13 February 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

FF only weighs less, you get 12% more armor per ton. it does not give you any damage reduction.

That is exactly what i ment

Stop trying to twist my words .

I said protection because " OLD UI SAID FERRO FIBROUS PROVIDES MORE PROTECTION"

don't be a smart ass

[Joseph Mallan]

MadCat02, on 13 February 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

I never said Clan tech have a choice . Right none of my mechs are Clan mechs so its safe to asume that majorety of my mechs will me IS .

I said Clan XL needs to be balanced .

It is. Like IS XL it is 50% the weight of a standard engine but only needs 2 extra Crits instead of 3 per side.

[MadCat02]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 February 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

true but that does not mean I get to put more armor on my Atlas than it already has. Just that it weighs less.

You don't get it .

12% more armor per ton means . Every point of armor absorbs 1.12 damage instead of 1.00

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT IF YOU PUT 10 POINTS IN ARMOR YOU WILL GET 12 ARMOR

but damage mtigation wise it means exactly that

Same as saying that Ferro fibrous armor provides 12% more protection

It just dosen't apply to internal structure

Edited by MadCat02, 13 February 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[Khobai]

IS vs Clans is gonna have to be either 12v10 or 12v12 with the clan side getting a 20% tonnage penalty.

That should help balance out Clan tech being better. Clans will less mechs or less tonnage but each of their mech will be individually better.

Quote

12% more armor per ton means . Every point of armor absorbs 1.12 damage instead of 1.00

No because the max armor stays the same. FF doesnt increase the max armor cap.

Say a mech has a max of 96 armor on its CT. Standard armor would weigh 3 tons. FF armor would weigh 2.64 tons. But you still only get 96 armor either way.

Edited by Khobai, 13 February 2014 - 07:53 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

MadCat02, on 13 February 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

You don't get it .

12% more armor per ton means . Every point of armor absorbs 1.12 damage instead of 1.00

And I still only get 90ish points of armor on my CT front, so that 90 ish points of armor takes 90ish damage to remove not 100.8!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 13 February 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[WarHippy]

MadCat02, on 13 February 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

So you will need to destroy 2 Side torsos or Center torso to destroy Clan XL engine .

Thats not even risky enough to run XL engine .


90% of time you will die without loosing 2 side torsos . Escpically assault mechs rarely loose both side torsos before going down .

The hole logic is reversed.

Instead of taking the shortest root to destroy XL engine you will either have to destroy center torso or take the longest root and destroy 2 side torsos .

I will never use a Standart engine again . 35% more free tonnag is well worth beeing killed from 2 side torsos .

Clan XL Example:

Shortest root to killing ATLAS

Center Torso about 105 ( 114 with with Ferro fibrous )

Dostroying 2 side torsos about 140 ( 154 with Ferro )

Not counting internal armor .


ISphere XL Example:

Shortest root to killing ATLAS

About 70 armor from side torso ( 76 with Ferro )

........................................................

So really Clan XL is almost 35% less likely to explode .


I just don't see CLan XL engine having enough of a risk not to use it on all mechs .

Outrages CB pricess on clan technology will not limit it fromcompletly braking balance .


....

Perhpas CLan XL should weight a bit more than IS . At least 20% . It will still be better than IS XL .

Or istead of occuping 2 slots on each side it should be 4 on each .

CLAN XL needs a drawback .

Clan mechs can't change their engine at all, and you can't use clan equipment in IS mechs so what are you complaining about? You will use the same engines you have been in your IS mechs, and you will only use whatever comes with clan mechs.