80 replies to this topic

[Varent]

Sprawling dense city map please. To even out Alpine Peaks.

[Tom Sawyer]

Been asking and whining for Big City aka as from Mech Warrior 4 for some time now. Megascrappers and narrow corridors. Maybe a large central park in the middle.

[Varent]

Tom Sawyer, on 10 March 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

Been asking and whining for Big City aka as from Mech Warrior 4 for some time now. Megascrappers and narrow corridors. Maybe a large central park in the middle.

Yes please, K thanks.

[Kjudoon]

Varent, on 08 March 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

Sprawling dense city map please. To even out Alpine Peaks.

It's called Crimson Straits, Frozen City and River City. A huge dense city would be annoying as all getout. More diverse landscapes and weather first. The Jungle Map that is up next is good.

Next we could use another cold map, or more interesting would be a a very big plains map with cover being sporadic buildings low rolling hills, and small copses of trees and/or weather conditions like sensor blocking dust storms that roll in and out.

We have only one true 'mountain' map and that's Alpine Peaks. We could go for another.

We have no serious industrial complex maps like mines or ship yards or even all out spaceports to work with either.

How about a desert map with pyramids or ghost towns and hoodoos or like the Outback?

There's lots of things we can use before another urban map.

[Mott]

I'll take any new map... especially a massive sprawling city.

Many of the lights would have a whole new level of play added to the game for them... rooftop leapers, spotters and ambushers.

My Hunchbacks and the new Griffins with their fast speed and insane torso twists would finally be able to play in the terrain they were designed for.

Wouldn't be bad at all.

Any and all new content is extremely welcome.

[Fut]

Kjudoon, on 13 March 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

It's called Crimson Straits, Frozen City and River City. A huge dense city would be annoying as all getout. More diverse landscapes and weather first. The Jungle Map that is up next is good.

It's a tough argument to claim that any of those maps are "Dense City Maps".

In my opinion, a massive dense city would be one of the most entertaining maps to play in. Of course, I ride HBKs, so I'm a little biased.

[Kjudoon]

Fut, on 13 March 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

It's a tough argument to claim that any of those maps are "Dense City Maps".

In my opinion, a massive dense city would be one of the most entertaining maps to play in. Of course, I ride HBKs, so I'm a little biased.

So you're looking for a 'Kowloon Rat's Nest' area where only the smallest mechs could fit and JJ mechs would have to crawl over the top getting stuck all the time? Places that were only 1 Commando wide and nowhere to dodge but you could hide in endlessly from bigger mechs. Well, if so, I can see that hated in a heartbeat by every direct fire mech, and unless they allowed direct from above cover dodging LRMs, everyone would hate it. You thought the QQ over shut down hiding mechs in skirmish mode was bad. Think about all the things that can and will go wrong with the tightest spaces of River City, because that's what you're advocating. Just making sure you are considering the consequences if they DO make something like that.



And how could you maneouver in something like this? Even a little Locust is the size of one of those buildings.

Edited by Kjudoon, 13 March 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[Dracol]

MW:Living Legends had a great urban map near the end. Had a massive two tier highway intersecting the map. With the highways changing elevation it broke up the flatness a lot.

[Faith McCarron]

Next Map: Solar Surface. You will be fighting on the surface of the sun, with giant solar flares shooting up with gigantic hitboxes to block your shots. Oh, and turrets. Lots of magical LRM turrets.

[Varent]

Kjudoon, on 13 March 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

It's called Crimson Straits, Frozen City and River City. A huge dense city would be annoying as all getout. More diverse landscapes and weather first. The Jungle Map that is up next is good.


We have only one true 'mountain' map and that's Alpine Peaks. We could go for another.

1) its not a dense city at all that requires you to really duck and shoot and the vast majority of time one play style will just wait you out and not engage you or move around till they have a free angle. We currently have NO map that makes people have to fight in a city.

2) Its called Tormaline desert. Also we already have a TON of maps that force long range combat and allow players no cover whatsoever.

We need a map that is a TRUE city map to even out all the long range combat.

[Varent]

Kjudoon, on 13 March 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

So you're looking for a 'Kowloon Rat's Nest' area where only the smallest mechs could fit and JJ mechs would have to crawl over the top getting stuck all the time? Places that were only 1 Commando wide and nowhere to dodge but you could hide in endlessly from bigger mechs. Well, if so, I can see that hated in a heartbeat by every direct fire mech, and unless they allowed direct from above cover dodging LRMs, everyone would hate it. You thought the QQ over shut down hiding mechs in skirmish mode was bad. Think about all the things that can and will go wrong with the tightest spaces of River City, because that's what you're advocating. Just making sure you are considering the consequences if they DO make something like that.



And how could you maneouver in something like this? Even a little Locust is the size of one of those buildings.

Streets wide enough for a stalker to turn in (longest) while still only really allowing one mech abreast, longer buildings and smaller buildings with multiple heights and a few interspersed parks. Long highway systems over top for quick movement but at a disadvantage of being a target. A few areas outside of the city where you can setup to snipe but with lots of cover to those fighting in the city.

Its plenty maneuverable. It simply forces you to actually use cover and puts a premium on mobility as upposed to fire power.

It makes you use tactics.

its a good thing.

[Hawk819]

Jungle is forthcoming. Question is: When?

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Kjudoon, on 13 March 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

It's called Crimson Straits, Frozen City and River City. A huge dense city

LOL Are you serious?! You're trying to tell me frozen and river are actual large, dense cities?


Get a load of this guy? I don't think he's ever actually played on these shoeboxes!

[Kjudoon]

mwhighlander, on 15 March 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

LOL Are you serious?! You're trying to tell me frozen and river are actual large, dense cities?


Get a load of this guy? I don't think he's ever actually played on these shoeboxes!

Large? no. Dense? in most places yes. I was never dealing with the issue of size, but density. Frozen city has lots of areas where you can barely move 2 mechs abreast, and generally speaking, it sucks. Stuck behind that stalker who's managed to take up almost the entire corridor between buildings so you have to find a new way around. No where to go when that 4UAC5 Cataphract shows up and you have to back up 50m before you can even try to turn to get out of the LOS? You've got no chance. You've got the 2 light mech abreast tunnel. You've got thin canyons on the backside of one base nobody ever goes to. Lots of tight quarters to play in, but where does everyone go in Frozen City? The much more wide open plain in the middle and drop ship almost without fail.

I can feel the QQ from here with this idea. Consider all the things you guys hate from those maps caused by dense high cover/low maneouverability terrain. That's what you're asking for. A large 'dense' city map of even tighter quarters, even with highways above it will make it a non-jumpjet pile of crap. Non JJ Mechs would be stuck with limited maneouvering options and be stuck in firing channels. Tall mechs would have no cover in low lying dense areas, while reallly tall buildings will make the map useless for LRMs even more than River City. Once again, everyone would go to the edges of the dense area and try to poptart the open spaces just like in River City shooting across the river as well as Frozen City or Crimson Straits. No, it doesn't sound like a fun or good idea when we have 3 maps like this so far and they're 3 of the least favorite maps if I listen to any of the griping about them here about it.

As for the 'no cover' complaint, what do you think this game is? You're piloting office buildings with guns in almost all cases! There's very few places a 25-50 foot mech can hide! I listened to a designer talk about the difficulty of how much detail you can use in the game because individual trash cans and newspapers flapping in the wind are too small in the scale of the game. You're not hiding behind a 1 story house and most can't hide behind a 2 story building. This is not human size here. It's not even vehicle size. We are piloting crane sized vehicles nothing smaller.

If I had my say there wouldn't be a single map that didn't have the ability to go to sector A1 to Z26. That's my idea of a good map size. Alpine Peaks level is the smallest map I'd want. And don't forget, one of the game modes they want to implement is "Rush" mode. Those can make Alpine Peaks look like a Readers Digest on a coffee table. That would be a good thing

Hawk819, on 15 March 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

Jungle is forthcoming. Question is: When?

Soon... I'm hoping we get a surprise in the next patch or two, but unless a mod says differently, that's the best I got. Jungle Map next.. and it's overdue if the 1 map every 2 months was held to.

[Varent]

Kjudoon, on 15 March 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Large? no. Dense? in most places yes. I was never dealing with the issue of size, but density. Frozen city has lots of areas where you can barely move 2 mechs abreast, and generally speaking, it sucks. Stuck behind that stalker who's managed to take up almost the entire corridor between buildings so you have to find a new way around. No where to go when that 4UAC5 Cataphract shows up and you have to back up 50m before you can even try to turn to get out of the LOS? You've got no chance. You've got the 2 light mech abreast tunnel. You've got thin canyons on the backside of one base nobody ever goes to. Lots of tight quarters to play in, but where does everyone go in Frozen City? The much more wide open plain in the middle and drop ship almost without fail.

I can feel the QQ from here with this idea. Consider all the things you guys hate from those maps caused by dense high cover/low maneouverability terrain. That's what you're asking for. A large 'dense' city map of even tighter quarters, even with highways above it will make it a non-jumpjet pile of crap. Non JJ Mechs would be stuck with limited maneouvering options and be stuck in firing channels. Tall mechs would have no cover in low lying dense areas, while reallly tall buildings will make the map useless for LRMs even more than River City. Once again, everyone would go to the edges of the dense area and try to poptart the open spaces just like in River City shooting across the river as well as Frozen City or Crimson Straits. No, it doesn't sound like a fun or good idea when we have 3 maps like this so far and they're 3 of the least favorite maps if I listen to any of the griping about them here about it.

As for the 'no cover' complaint, what do you think this game is? You're piloting office buildings with guns in almost all cases! There's very few places a 25-50 foot mech can hide! I listened to a designer talk about the difficulty of how much detail you can use in the game because individual trash cans and newspapers flapping in the wind are too small in the scale of the game. You're not hiding behind a 1 story house and most can't hide behind a 2 story building. This is not human size here. It's not even vehicle size. We are piloting crane sized vehicles nothing smaller.

If I had my say there wouldn't be a single map that didn't have the ability to go to sector A1 to Z26. That's my idea of a good map size. Alpine Peaks level is the smallest map I'd want. And don't forget, one of the game modes they want to implement is "Rush" mode. Those can make Alpine Peaks look like a Readers Digest on a coffee table. That would be a good thing

Lets evaluate this statement shall we. Your worried that the team will use bad tactics and choke up on things instead of properly spreading out.

So basically what that is coming down to, is you feel people are not playing very strategically in there mech placement and movement. And therefore you dont want there to be a map that instead rewards good tactics.

Currently most games right now devolve into death balls, mild flanks and solid one group movement.

Having a city actually encourages you to split up more and break from that meta.

your worried about tall mechs not having cover... wich again would only occur if mechs near them are taking it, wich encourages spreading out and use of terrain to a stronger degree and not just 'standing around'.

Jump jets would indeed have some advantages but also it would make you a target since in many places you would have to go up very high to get a good top down shot off, wich would mean peopel could thoot you in the air with more ease.

This game right now boils down to who brings the larger cun, concentrates the most fire and overall has better aim in a twitch shooting mecanic.

A city map takes that away and instead allows for players to truly use cover and fire pot shots while moving between cover, it gives medium mechs a stronger purpose with fast flanking maneuvers etc...

The only people that would cry about this is the ones humping the current meta.

[Artgathan]

Kjudoon, on 15 March 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Large? no. Dense? in most places yes.

Dense? I wouldn't describe any of the cities in the game as "dense". Typically they're about 3 - 4 streets wide at the densest point in the city.

I'd like to see an urban map that has different movement avenues that only certain mechs can fit down. For example, there's a few places on Caustic Valley where only a light mech can run because there's pipes overhead (which block Heavy / Assault mechs from following). I think more stuff like that would be interesting.

[Varent]

Artgathan, on 15 March 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Dense? I wouldn't describe any of the cities in the game as "dense". Typically they're about 3 - 4 streets wide at the densest point in the city.

I'd like to see an urban map that has different movement avenues that only certain mechs can fit down. For example, there's a few places on Caustic Valley where only a light mech can run because there's pipes overhead (which block Heavy / Assault mechs from following). I think more stuff like that would be interesting.

agreed. Could also have certain sections wider where two can be abreast so multiple different tactics could be used, even could have low overhangs in between buildings that lights can get through but that some jump capable mechs can jump over.

[Kjudoon]

Oooookay. I tried to point out the dangers. Can't fault me for trying.

[Varent]

Kjudoon, on 15 March 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

Oooookay. I tried to point out the dangers. Can't fault me for trying.

No, you pointed out people using bad tactics and being punished for it. And im point out that a city map would force people to spread out and use good tactics.

[Kjudoon]

I can't say I'm 'worried' about anything beyond getting another bad map. Frozen City, Forest Colony and River City are examples of bad maps.

As for people not playing strategically, no, most don't. When 83% are just pugging on their own, the strategy maxes out at 'stick with the group and move towards the shiny brawl pit' like:

the PUG Zapper on Terra Derpa
the Citadel in River City,
The Dropship on Frozen City,
the Shanty Town Tunnel on Forest Colony,
The Parking Structure on Crimson Strait,
the Alamo Caldera on Caustic Valley
the Stargate on Tourmaline.
the Radar dish or Basement on Manifold
Sniper Peak on Alpine Peaks
"Kappa Canyon" on Canyon Network

Every map has it's own 'meta' for the best places to fight, or at least most popular. The two are often not the same. A new 'metropolis' map with light mech rat warrens, JJ accessable towers and deep thin canyons with occasional open spaces will not change this habit. The murderball will find the most advantageous position or 'kewllest!!!1!' position to fight and go there almost every time. That will take about 2 weeks after release for it to start happening too.

So essentially, I just shake my head, understand that too many don't get that a map will not change people's basic gameplay behavior and just wait for the QQ once again when the community 'gets what it wants' with all the consequences that come with it.

Just remember this, every map feature that CAN be abused WILL be abused. That is a fact backed by the history of this game.