74 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

PPC does 10 DMG
Reduce heat back to normal values.
Remove minimum distance. (Allow us to toggle the minimum distance on/off with the risk of inflicting damage to the PPC)

PPC will do [+6] DMG to targeted point [+2] or [+4] to adjacent hit boxes.

Ex you hit the Left Arm [+6] DMG to the arm [+4] DMG to the left side torso.
Ex you hit CT [+6] DMG to CT [+2] to LTorso and RTorso.

How to explain this to make sense? It's electricity and metal conducts electricity so it would spread across the mech and nerf all PPC alphas while still keeping the weapon useful and good. Also brings the stat values back to canon numbers.

[x] = subject to change

Edited by Imperius, 13 February 2014 - 02:38 PM.

[Basskicker]

Only problem I see with this is, I torso twist when I know a ppc is in my future. What happens when I'm running an xl and my left torso is stripped and internals are scarlet when I take a ppc in the left arm? Or what happens with rear armor? Your way has the potential to reward people for poor aiming. I'm of the opinion that ppcs just need a dmg nerf altogether, there is another thread already going on about that so I won't reiterate it here.

[Imperius]

Basskicker, on 09 February 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Only problem I see with this is, I torso twist when I know a ppc is in my future. What happens when I'm running an xl and my left torso is stripped and internals are scarlet when I take a ppc in the left arm? Or what happens with rear armor? Your way has the potential to reward people for poor aiming. I'm of the opinion that ppcs just need a dmg nerf altogether, there is another thread already going on about that so I won't reiterate it here.

Yes it rewards players of so called poor aim but gives the PPC purpose while keeping the damage the same. No different than an LBX really, and you wouldn't "Torso Twist" if repair and rearm existed. As for rear armor you get hit BCT the left and right back take +2DMG, you get hit in the legs +6 leg +4 CT quite easy to understand think traveling electricity through metal.

Also when you run an XL that is the risk you take for the reward of more speed less weight.

Edited by Imperius, 09 February 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Nauht]

Basskicker, on 09 February 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Only problem I see with this is, I torso twist when I know a ppc is in my future. What happens when I'm running an xl and my left torso is stripped and internals are scarlet when I take a ppc in the left arm? Or what happens with rear armor? Your way has the potential to reward people for poor aiming. I'm of the opinion that ppcs just need a dmg nerf altogether, there is another thread already going on about that so I won't reiterate it here.

Exactly right. There was enough of an uproar when missiles did exactly this and had something like 2-5 meter splash damage.
This, as well as individual hitboxes on some mechs, to constant CT coring by missiles. Everyone hated it and cried a long time before PGI nerf... er... fixed the area damage of missiles.

OP this has been raised before and now and again someone new suggests this without really thinking it through.

[Nauht]

Imperius, on 09 February 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Yes it rewards players of so called poor aim but gives the PPC purpose while keeping the damage the same. No different than an LBX really, and you wouldn't "Torso Twist" if repair and rearm existed.

Also when you run an XL that is the risk you take for the reward of more speed less weight.

Congratulations! You have now suggested an indirect nerf to light and some medium mechs as most (read: ALL unless you're running an AC20) as they're the most common mechs to run XL's.
As an assault player I wouldn't mind this at all, but I know the reaction if lights now had a choice of being slower or taking more damage from splash damage from one of the most popular weapons in game.

[Onlystolen]

remove minimum distance? are you high? you must be. You know nothing if you suggest removing minimum distance.

As for "splash damage"
The Particle Projector Cannon (or PPC) is a unique energy weapon. PPCs fire a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target, causing damage through both thermal and kinetic energy. (no electricity, unless hit with mass amounts, which then caused electrical overloads in the mech)

PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems.^[6] This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range.

Source: http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon

Now you know, and Information is ammunition.

Edited by Onlystolen, 09 February 2014 - 03:09 PM.

[Imperius]

Nauht, on 09 February 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Exactly right. There was enough of an uproar when missiles did exactly this and had something like 2-5 meter splash damage.
This, as well as individual hitboxes on some mechs, to constant CT coring by missiles. Everyone hated it and cried a long time before PGI nerf... er... fixed the area damage of missiles.

OP this has been raised before and now and again someone new suggests this without really thinking it through.

Glad you think you know I didn't think it through. Well I did and it's better than pinpoint, strait nerf to DMG, or more heat which translates to less shooting when you don't shoot in an FPS it's not fun.

This method would give the PPC a unique use, and spread DMG.

[Imperius]

Onlystolen, on 09 February 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

remove minimum distance? are you high? you must be. You know nothing if you suggest removing minimum distance.

As for "splash damage"
The Particle Projector Cannon (or PPC) is a unique energy weapon. PPCs fire a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target, causing damage through both thermal and kinetic energy. (no electricity, unless hit with mass amounts, which then caused electrical overloads in the mech)

PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems.^[6] This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range.

Source: http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon

Now you know, and Information is ammunition.

Electricity definition...
a form of energy resulting from the existence of charged particles (such as electrons or protons), either statically as an accumulation of charge or dynamically as a current.
synonyms: power, electric power, energy, current, static More

Please don't reply to my thread that post almost gave me cancer.

Yes screw no minimum range (ER-PPC) MWO = Interpretation of BT using weapon and mech values as base. If it needs to add an "override button" I'm ok with that. More sim buttons.

There isn't enough hands in the world to face palm my face with the required hands needed to combat that post...

Edited by Imperius, 09 February 2014 - 03:20 PM.

[Imperius]

Nauht, on 09 February 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

Congratulations! You have now suggested an indirect nerf to light and some medium mechs as most (read: ALL unless you're running an AC20) as they're the most common mechs to run XL's.
As an assault player I wouldn't mind this at all, but I know the reaction if lights now had a choice of being slower or taking more damage from splash damage from one of the most popular weapons in game.

SSRM's, Missiles, LBX 10, Lasers and your point is? Really please spare me the it nerfs lights crap. If I hit a light I hit him. It would apply DMG only if he was hit.

Again running an XL that's the risk you take. Honestly XL's don't really have enough drawback in my opinion. I run a Boars Head quite often 400Xl 75kph and I torso twist like a bad ass. Why do I use it? Really no draw backs due to the lack of decent aim on most people.

Edited by Imperius, 09 February 2014 - 03:48 PM.

[Nauht]

Imperius, on 09 February 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:

SSRM's, Missiles, LBX 10, Lasers and your point is? Really please spare me the it nerfs lights crap. If I hit a light I hit him. It would apply DMG only if he was hit.

Again running an XL that's the risk you take. Honestly XL's don't really have enough drawback in my opinion. I run a Boars Head quite often 400Xl 75kph and I torso twist like a bad ass. Why do I use it? Really no draw backs due to the lack of decent aim on most people.

Spoken like someone with a low ELO playing predominately low skilled players.

I dare you to run an XL in an assault in high ELO matches against premades.

And yes it would be ANOTHER indirect nerf to lights/mediums - they would be easier to kill with their lower armor. Arm hit? Thanks I'll take some torso damage as well. And given the funky nature of hitboxes will that splash damage be taken off the rear or front or random? Rear, it would be even more devaststing to a light.

No you haven't thought it through. Like I said, you're not the first to suggest this, hardly original, idea. It's been shot down in the past and there's a reason why PGI have not implemented it. In fact, they've gone out of their way to reduce splash damage.

Case closed.

[Black Arachne]

Imperius, on 09 February 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

PPC does 10 DMG
Reduce heat back to normal values.
Remove minimum distance.

PPC will do +6 DMG to targeted point +2 or +4 to adjacent hit boxes.

Ex you hit the Left Arm +6 DMG to the arm +4 DMG to the left side torso.
Ex you hit CT +6 DMG to CT +2 to LTorso and RTorso.

How to explain this to make sense? It's electricity and metal conducts electricity so it would spread across the mech and nerf all PPC alphas while still keeping the weapon useful and good. Also brings the stat values back to canon numbers.

A PPC should still do damage within minimum range. The only penalty for doing so was an added modifier to hit. Since this doesn't translate - scale the damage when at 1 hex (3dmg) 2 hex (6dmg) 3 hex (9dmg). Also give us the option to disable the inhibitor to do full damage.

For a Thinking Man's shooter - we need the Risk/Reward Mechanics of battletech.

[Roland]

Black Arachne, on 09 February 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

A PPC should still do damage within minimum range. The only penalty for doing so was an added modifier to hit

No, in BT the PPC would not fire under the minimum range.

A pilot could manually disable the safeties on the PPC, and then he could fire it below minimum range, but ran the risk of creating an electromagnetic feedback which would destroy the PPC.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Imperius, on 09 February 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

PPC does 10 DMG
Reduce heat back to normal values.
Remove minimum distance.

PPC will do +6 DMG to targeted point +2 or +4 to adjacent hit boxes.

Ex you hit the Left Arm +6 DMG to the arm +4 DMG to the left side torso.
Ex you hit CT +6 DMG to CT +2 to LTorso and RTorso.

How to explain this to make sense? It's electricity and metal conducts electricity so it would spread across the mech and nerf all PPC alphas while still keeping the weapon useful and good. Also brings the stat values back to canon numbers.

Splash damage is broken in MWO, which is why they had to nerf the crap out of SRMs (which they've only partially restored, and which won't really be back until hit registration is more reliable and/or they bump the damage back up a bit).

Instead, PGI should implement damage arcing for PPCs. On impact, a PPC does 50% damage. It then checks for all adjacent locations and randomly picks one, excepting the head, where it does 30% damage. It then checks all adjacent locations, excepting the initial impact point or the head, where it does the final 20% damage. It uses a different mechanism than splash, preventing it from breaking the game and doing triple or quadruple damage on hit, while still retaining the on-point impact of the hit and mitigating group-fired PPCs.

As for the minimum range, either keep it as it is now, or have it do scaling damage loss with any lost damage instead being inflicted on the location where the PPC is mounted. If that Highlander wants to put two PPC shots into me at 45m, he should take 10 damage (5 from each PPC) and I should take 10 damage. After all, he's overriding the field inhibitor, which is in place to prevent damage backwash. Still, the 90m hard limit is a decent balancing mechanic as-is, and I fear that people would QQ too loudly if PGI let them hurt themselves by shooting a PPC inside its minimum.

[Black Arachne]

Roland, on 09 February 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

No, in BT the PPC would not fire under the minimum range.

A pilot could manually disable the safeties on the PPC, and then he could fire it below minimum range, but ran the risk of creating an electromagnetic feedback which would destroy the PPC.

It would fire if you didn't miss the roll - the rule was "+1 at minimum range, additional +1 per hex less than minimum range "

[Tincan Nightmare]

PPC's (plus gauss, LRMs, and almost all other weapons with minimum range modifiers) could still shoot and hit a target in their minimum range, it was just harder to do so. You could fire a PPC at a mech right next to yours in the TT, it just gave you a +3 modifier to land the hit.

I don't understand why people are trying to nerf PPC's, when most games are ACMania, everyone running around with dual, triple, or quad mounts of AC's and laying out pinpoint damage at a rapid fire pace. PPC's are the only energy weapon that can even compete in the pinpoint damage department again them, at a much slower rate of fire an lots of heat. Must every weapon become useless save AC's. Guess Dakka is running the place now.

[Serpieri]

Roland, on 09 February 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

No, in BT the PPC would not fire under the minimum range.

A pilot could manually disable the safeties on the PPC, and then he could fire it below minimum range, but ran the risk of creating an electromagnetic feedback which would destroy the PPC.

Your wrong Roland - all weapons that had min ranges can fire - they just had a modifier added to the roll. And I believe all of them had a rule where you can bypass the min range but it was risky.

It was PGI that made them do no damage.

Edited by Serpieri, 09 February 2014 - 05:13 PM.

[Black Arachne]

Serpieri, on 09 February 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

Your wrong Roland - all weapons that had min ranges can fire - they just had a modifier added to the roll. And I believe all of them had a rule where you can bypass the min range but it was risky.

It was PGI that made them do no damage.

Another hidden mechanic from PGI - say it's no so.....

Seriously, the more I play this game the more I find myself playing Battletech instead with my friends.

Thanks for that PGI - not sarcasm - BT is just better

[Serpieri]

Found my Maximum Tech Book

Hot-Loaded LRMS - Short Version "Ammo Bays enclosed during Battle. LRM's and ATM's must be ho-loaded before a scenario. Minimum-range modifiers do not apply. However, hot-loaded LRMS and ATM's are not as accurate. When resolving damage, you roll 3D6, and take the two lowest die results. Because hot-loaded lrms and ATM's are fully armed in the launcher, any critical hit to the launcher triggers a missile explosion. Basically treats the launcher the same as AMMO.

PPC - Disabling the Inhibitor - Minimum-range modifiers do not apply. Player then rolls to see if the shot causes particle feedback. A Failed roll, the PPC's critical's are destroyed.

Can't find the rule for the AC's or Guass - I could be mistaken and these did not have an option like the above ones did.

[Coralld]

This is an interesting idea and one that I have thought about before, however I would not touch its heat.

The idea has merit by allowing the damage be some what spread based on where it strikes a mech. No its not splash which has a blast radius which is what we use to have in game but was removed do to the problems it was causing.

As for the argument of "it will hurt Lights and some Mediums..." is wrong do to my experience playing Lights and Mediums extensively. Spreading damage is the saving grave of all mechs but even more so for Lights and Mediums and I base this on the simple fact that taking full 10 damage from a front loaded weapon hurts more than one that does 6 and then have the other 4 damage broken up in two different groups and doing 2 points of damage.

The XL argument, its a none issue unless your internals are cherry red in which case your going to most likely die anyways even if someone so much as looks at you funny.

I wouldn't mind if PGI tried this out in the test server to see how it would work out as it does have merit for balancing the meta, especially if they decided to make AC all fire 2 shells per round, this way AC would also have their damage spread and up the skill curb, because in order to have that AC10 deal its full 10 damage then you would need both shells to hit the same location, other wise you will be doing 5 damage in one location and the other 5 somewhere else.

I wouldn't be against the idea if the PPC did 7 damage and have the diverted damage be 1.5 between two locations.

Edited by Coralld, 09 February 2014 - 07:16 PM.

[NRP]

The only PPC "fix" needed is a reduction in base heat and an increase in projectile speed. And also allowing three to be alpha'd before ghost heat kicks in. Then mechs with only energy hard points might have a chance against ballistic mechs.

Anyway, I'm sick of all the whining about PPCs. They were once good. Now they're not so good (hot, slow, and hit registration issues). It seems you cry babies won't be happy until PPCs are completely unusable. STFU already.