21 replies to this topic

[Krasnovian]

OK here goes, ECM needs a complete overhaul, I think most will agree that is is solidly out of balance. My two cents on it is an overhaul from the ground up. As is ECM is very unrealistic and adds little to the game, what was suposed to be the herald of information warfare has been so unbalanced it has only been released on variants of 4 mechs.

I propose, or would like to see, an information warfare system which works similar to reality where sensors have an on or off setting and ECM has an active or passive mode. In passive mode ECM can see zones where enemy sensors can detect it. In active mode it breaks all radar locks on friendly targets within a radius but it also shows up as an interference zone on ALL sensors. Sensors when active behave as they do now as well as project a detection zone detectable by ECM, mechs with sensors set to off behave normally as targets but do not project any detection zone to ECM.

What these changes will mean, mechs with ECM will be able to avoid enemy sensors by using passive mode and good piloting, in active they will be able to project a bubble of sensor/LRM disruption. The change being that these two CANNOT happen at the same time for the same mechs. Untargetable but not sneeky, sneeky but not untargetable.

Information warfare in this case becomes a game that everyone is able to play

An additional benefit to these changes is that camo, on large maps, becomes a thought for everyone.

p.s. Yes I understand that this heightens an already steep learning curve but I think the net change would be good for the games rep as "A Thinking Person's Shooter"

p.p.s I also understand this would probably be a major system change and PGI may not be willing or capable

Edit for grammar

Edited by Krasnovian, 12 February 2014 - 06:47 PM.

[Ozric]

Nice idea, it might even work. There can be little doubt that the Information Warfare pillar of MWO is in dire need of an overhaul, and your suggestion is one of the better ones of late. You are also right that it is not on PGI's radar right now though, bigger fish to fry I suppose.

[El Space Doctor]

I've often wondered who was the ****** that forgot home on jam mode from these futuristic "long" range missiles?

And also, there should be a DCS World: 3050 edition so I could quit this call of duty nonsense and still get my mech fix.

[LastPaladin]

Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Krasnovian, on 12 February 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

An additional benefit to these changes is that camo, on large maps, becomes a thought for everyone.

For that to happen, we need to know what map we are dropping on before we pick a mech. Otherwise, my forest camo is useless on an arctic map, and vice versa.

[Bhael Fire]

LastPaladin, on 12 February 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

For that to happen, we need to know what map we are dropping on before we pick a mech. Otherwise, my forest camo is useless on an arctic map, and vice versa.

That's coming with the new launch module / pre-match lobby. Players will be able to vote on a limited selection of maps before the match, then choose a mech accordingly.

[Krasnovian]

Home on jam is something I'd like to see possibly as a command console ability.

In addition to current effects for mechs with sensors active, TAG would allow the firer to launch missiles without sensors active, NARC would allow all mechs to target without sensors active


Edit to add TAG, NARC

Edited by Krasnovian, 12 February 2014 - 06:46 PM.

[LastPaladin]

Bhael Fire, on 12 February 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

That's coming with the new launch module / pre-match lobby. Players will be able to vote on a limited selection of maps before the match, then choose a mech accordingly.

So I've been told, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[nemesis271989]

Stop Changing ECM it works as intended, it has less advantages than disadvantages!!!! It is fixed on specific location. It is being completely countered by BAP, PPC disables it, and the last one is TAG. You are getting NARC buff already!! What else do you need ? You want to trash that equipment completely?


I pilot Atlaii only and DDC now is only mech that can be more or less useful.
Wash your hands and go away!!!!

[Prezimonto]

I LOVE your ideas. I doubt they'll get implemented, but it's worth a shot talking about it.

What I'd like to see, at the minimum, is that ECM when in stealth mode, hides mech's from being targeted... unless the player centers the crosshair directly on the mech for a few seconds, then the mech pops up as a potential target for that player only, in addition the time to lock should still be increased.

A command console might let you share that target data to other mechs within 300m or so.

So essentially, every mech should have a weak, slow version of TAG(that doesn't improve missiles in anyway, but does let me actually be used if the other team is in the open), which could be considered as "active" sensors.

Your idea is better, providing deeper game play for everyone, but this idea I think would require less coding/changes and would preserve PGI's central implementation of ECM without completely negating the ability to obtain locks at medium and long ranges.

Edited by Prezimonto, 12 February 2014 - 07:29 PM.

[General Taskeen]

The Info Warfare pillar was destroyed by the Catapult below the Pyramid.

[Sephlock]

El Space Doctor, on 12 February 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

I've often wondered who was the ****** that forgot home on jam mode from these futuristic "long" range missiles?

And also, there should be a DCS World: 3050 edition so I could quit this call of duty nonsense and still get my mech fix.

http://en.wikipedia....diation_missile

[Krasnovian]

nemesis271989, on 12 February 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

Stop Changing ECM it works as intended, it has less advantages than disadvantages!!!! It is fixed on specific location. It is being completely countered by BAP, PPC disables it, and the last one is TAG. You are getting NARC buff already!! What else do you need ? You want to trash that equipment completely?


I pilot Atlaii only and DDC now is only mech that can be more or less useful.
Wash your hands and go away!!!!

I'm sorry if I'd like to see some depth in an important facet of this game. Info warfare was intended to be one of the pillars of roles and this system change or one similar would go a long way to bringing the "Thinking" back to this game

These changes would only turn ECM into equipment to be used rather than something to throw on a mech b/c it has the hard point. Although it may require a critical thinking or decision making skill set that some players lack.

[Solis Obscuri]

Sephlock, on 12 February 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....diation_missile

Yeah, sadly ARAD missiles didn't come back from the future like the wide-area Void Signature system masquerading as ECM...

Edited by Solis Obscuri, 13 February 2014 - 03:10 PM.

[El Space Doctor]

Sigh.. I know the simplistic lore has it's limitations, but I just cant help wondering how awesome battletech was if someone actually made a real simulation intepretation of it. I know it would a commercial failure hated by mouthbreeders like DV8 clowns, but damn, just imagine if we had a clickable cockit, control of all the electronics and real maps, I mean size of Connecticut maps with several hundred players. Stop this tic tac toe/ COD stuff and turn it into chess / DCS.

Yeah, I'd love a mech game that was incomprehensible without reading through at least 500 pages of manuals

[OznerpaG]

good idea, but 2500+ games in i'v never owned an ECM mech and i still don't see the point of wasting weight on installing one if i did (well, unless i decided to buy an atlas and then yes on the DDC lol). once you know the maps and know how to stay in cover LRMs are an easily evaded 'threat'

[Krasnovian]

Sorry it's taken so long to respond but reworking ECM this way would mean no one would HAVE to run ECM in order to play the IW game and honestly would also make ECM less targeted toward missiles so there would be less difference between you and an ECM equipped mech.

[Moromillas]

This suggestion is grossly unbalanced. You're not meant to win with one Mech, you have to play as a team and win that way.

If you're not able to target the Mech, because of ECM, it would make ECM a brawler weapon, which is not its intended function. ECM was like this a long time ago, and changed for good reason.

Sensor disruption is far too OP, you can basically use one Mech to cut an entire team off from one another, and use it to scatter a team so they can easily be picked off, one by one.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

ecm shouldnt be an all-in-one stealth mode yes. BAP counters ecm, when in TT ECM counters BAP extended range so idk where to go with this one

i think PGI should add the whole thing the angel ecm suite, stealth armor and the works if we really want "stealth mechs"

[Krasnovian]

@Moromillas
I'm not sure where you get that under such a system one mech w/ ECM would be OP, please explain.

In this system (which is unfinished at best) no mech can be untargetable without consequences.

When used with good teamwork, and some skill, passive ECM allows an entire lance to flank without being detected by sensors (but not by the ol' Mk1 eyeball) and these two systems are mutually exclusive.

In game now a skilled ECM light cannot be destroyed by any slower mech with only missiles, this is situation is usually a result of battle damage but the fact that the CAT-A1 exists makes it a system design problem.

If our current ECM was split into Angel, Guardian, and Stealth systems all requiring tonnage ,crits and generating some heat it would be a much better system than we have.

The suggested system has the benefit of bringing Information Warfare into the game for all players not just those who pilot ECM capable mechs.

[Moromillas]

Krasnovian, on 01 March 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

@Moromillas
I'm not sure where you get that under such a system one mech w/ ECM would be OP, please explain.

In this system (which is unfinished at best) no mech can be untargetable without consequences.

When used with good teamwork, and some skill, passive ECM allows an entire lance to flank without being detected by sensors (but not by the ol' Mk1 eyeball) and these two systems are mutually exclusive.

In game now a skilled ECM light cannot be destroyed by any slower mech with only missiles, this is situation is usually a result of battle damage but the fact that the CAT-A1 exists makes it a system design problem.

If our current ECM was split into Angel, Guardian, and Stealth systems all requiring tonnage ,crits and generating some heat it would be a much better system than we have.

The suggested system has the benefit of bringing Information Warfare into the game for all players not just those who pilot ECM capable mechs.

I thought my explanation was sufficient. Sensor jamming is far too powerful, it can quite easily tip the scales. Being untargetable is what made it a brawler weapon, it wasn't used for stealth or tactics, it was used to reduce damage taken. They can't see how damaged your Mech is, and a few weapons can't be used to damage the Mech.

I go LRM support in my A1 all the time. I use 4 streaks and BAP and sensor range, and deal damage to ECM lights. I don't know why you think that's not possible.