218 replies to this topic

[Craig Steele]

JohanssenJr, on 17 February 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

I can't remember of the top of my head and no longer have a 3050 TRO, but of the Clan lights we get, I think only the Kit Fox Config C gets ECM and Probe. The rules regarding such equipment for clans in TT is you couldn't add/remove items like ECM, Active Probe, MASC, etc. That specific configuration either had it or didn't.

Yes on the C, and with 3 AMS thank you very much.

But no, ECM and Guardian were pod based as well and could be put in any mech in the TT AFAIK. Some mechs did have fixed mounts for some electronics (Masakari TC, Koshi Beagle) But Uller and Loki are examples where the electronics could flick in and out between variants.

[SaltBeef]

I have the Battletech 3050 book and every clan mech under 40 tons in that guide has either a Ecm or an Active probe configuration.

I hope the clan mechs are good I did not get a warm and fuzzy feeling when all of the DEVS in the VLOG #2 were INNER SPHERE guys.

[SaltBeef]

Dasher B has ecm Koshi C has ECM Uller C has ECM I stand corrected PUMA no ECM Dragonfly C active probe Loki Prime ECM

Edited by SaltBeef, 20 February 2014 - 11:31 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

The OP nailed it. I was concidering going for a small clan pack. If i was into mediums i would be kinda annoyed with the locked engine ratings.
If i liked heavies or assaults i wouldn't really care much.

But i pilot only lights and speed is life for a light mech. I can deal with all the restrictions the clan mechs have but engine ratings?
I can deal with the locked armor and internal types. Locked critical slots? That's fine as well i think.
A minimal number of heatsinks and type locked into place? I can deal with it. Troublesome but i can do it.
Some weapons and equipment can't be replaced you say? That's trouble as well but i can deal with it.

Then the engine ratings being locked comes along. Can i deal with it? No way.
This means there is no way to make a Kit Fox into a fast moving sniper. It's just a light playing at being a medium.

[CyclonerM]

Spleenslitta, on 17 March 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Then the engine ratings being locked comes along. Can i deal with it? No way.
This means there is no way to make a Kit Fox into a fast moving sniper. It's just a light playing at being a medium.

Exactly! We are talking about a light able to carry as much firepower as a Hunchback! Unless you really want to play ONLY hit-and-run, i see no reason you should not give them a try.

On another note: in MWO all the lights are used in the same way.. Many have lost their original purpose. The Jenner is, indeed, a fast hit-and-run harasser. Instead, the Raven is designed to be an EW 'Mech, and the Locust a scout.. So if we get a better diversification of roles for lights, it is good.

[Tesunie]

I'd still have to say that my Locust would like to have a word with "meta light concepts"...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0aed9ef87384ab3

[CyclonerM]

Tesunie, on 17 March 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

I'd still have to say that my Locust would like to have a word with "meta light concepts"...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0aed9ef87384ab3

Put a flamer on it and your Locust will be THE "NO META!" flag 'Mech
Keep using it!

[Spleenslitta]

CyclonerM, on 17 March 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

Exactly! We are talking about a light able to carry as much firepower as a Hunchback! Unless you really want to play ONLY hit-and-run, i see no reason you should not give them a try.

On another note: in MWO all the lights are used in the same way.. Many have lost their original purpose. The Jenner is, indeed, a fast hit-and-run harasser. Instead, the Raven is designed to be an EW 'Mech, and the Locust a scout.. So if we get a better diversification of roles for lights, it is good.

I understand your point about diversification of lights and i even approve. However.

It's not that i just want a standard hit & run light mech. I want a mech that can snipe and quickly relocate to a new position before the enemy can retaliate.
The Kit Fox can do that with a it's stock speed but not fast enough to satisfy me.
The longer the distance between the first firing point and the new one is the less likely the enemy will predict where i will appear next.

A Jenner has the speed to relocate faster than a Kit Fox and thus make up for having less firepower.
Add the JJ's and suddenly the Jenner is superior for me at least because it has a wider selection of sniping spots.

I know i'm rare type of light pilot because of my unusual choice of tactics. Currently none of the Clan mechs that will be released has a chance of satisfying if engine ratings stay locked.
I don't want to join the firing line in matches. I want to get on the flank and have enough speed to escape when things get too hot.
97Kph just ain't nearly enough.

[Robber]

SniperCon, on 14 February 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

Let's define DOA. DOA does not mean no one will pilot the mech. DOA does not mean no one will be successful. DOA means it will not be used in competition.

There are better options at 35 tons and at 97 kph, so neither the Kit Fox nor Adder will offer any competitive advantage. Hence, DOA; like the Locust.

edit: And please explain what is outwardly stupid about upgrading to a Timberwolf.

They will be mandatory once the 4x3 framework is implemented in the future, unless you plan on having Stars running IS lights.

[Tesunie]

CyclonerM, on 18 March 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

Put a flamer on it and your Locust will be THE "NO META!" flag 'Mech
Keep using it!

What? LRMs on a light, and less than 20LRMs isn't enough?

But seriously, I do fairly well in this mech, all things considered. An average of 200 damage, with higher scores of 300 damage... Not bad for a slow moving DoA mech build. Right?

Spleenslitta, on 18 March 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

I understand your point about diversification of lights and i even approve. However.

It's not that i just want a standard hit & run light mech. I want a mech that can snipe and quickly relocate to a new position before the enemy can retaliate.
The Kit Fox can do that with a it's stock speed but not fast enough to satisfy me.
The longer the distance between the first firing point and the new one is the less likely the enemy will predict where i will appear next.

A Jenner has the speed to relocate faster than a Kit Fox and thus make up for having less firepower.
Add the JJ's and suddenly the Jenner is superior for me at least because it has a wider selection of sniping spots.

I know i'm rare type of light pilot because of my unusual choice of tactics. Currently none of the Clan mechs that will be released has a chance of satisfying if engine ratings stay locked.
I don't want to join the firing line in matches. I want to get on the flank and have enough speed to escape when things get too hot.
97Kph just ain't nearly enough.

And for you: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...60c653d5c1bff86
Works very well I find. I use the speed to carefully sneak up behind the enemy, and then Gauss them in the back. Then, hide. It's plenty fast enough for what I've wanted it do. I don't see how the Uller will be too much different, considering the Uller will be able to take even more weapons than my Cicada probably has on it...

[Pariah Devalis]

And has the added durability of clan XL engines. Half a mech gone is just a terrible inconvenience.

[Kael Posavatz]

Actually the Warhawk does not have a fixed targeting computer. It only looks that way because all of the configurations use one.

And as I and other people have said before, the light-mech Meta in MWO has forced all light-mechs to assume the role of the fast hit-and-run harasser regardless of whether or not that was their designed or intended role.

The Raven was intended as an electronic-warfare escort and too valuable to risk in combat. The Firestarter was used as a specialized scouting mech in places where it could cover itself by setting fires to discourage pursuit, but was primarily a combat-engineering mech (things like fire and smoke screens being the proper duties of Engineers). The Locust was designed to gun down enemy infantry formations.

If anything, the fixed engines in the Clan Mechs will force people to think a little, and then use them as intended.

Why have I yet to see anyone saying "A 35-ton mech with twin LRM-20 launchers? Dear God!" or, "A 35-ton mech with both twin large pulse lasers and medium pulse lasers? Good Lord!"

[Pariah Devalis]

Absolutely agree. When people realize the light mechs hit as hard as heavies, I think that is when the reality check is going to bounce.

[Spleenslitta]

Tesunie, on 18 March 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

And for you: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...60c653d5c1bff86
Works very well I find. I use the speed to carefully sneak up behind the enemy, and then Gauss them in the back. Then, hide. It's plenty fast enough for what I've wanted it do. I don't see how the Uller will be too much different, considering the Uller will be able to take even more weapons than my Cicada probably has on it...

Not fast enough. I don't mean to offend. I just need speed more than firepower. You could even say that my speed is my firepower in a way.
I haven't seen any other player using tactics like mine. Not that my tactics are superior by any means. They are just.....very rare.

I need a speed of at least 125 Kph to do things the way i like it. Preferably +140 Kph if it doesn't have JJ's.
I tried doing it with 113 Kph. It just barelly works at that speed. 97 Kph would be much too low. No way i could use it the way i do now.

I would have to join the mainfiring line to avoid being hunted down by lights.

I want to make use of the Kit Fox but as long as i can't get more speed out of it i just plain can't buy a clan pack.

[Tesunie]

Spleenslitta, on 18 March 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Not fast enough. I don't mean to offend. I just need speed more than firepower. You could even say that my speed is my firepower in a way.
I haven't seen any other player using tactics like mine. Not that my tactics are superior by any means. They are just.....very rare.

I need a speed of at least 125 Kph to do things the way i like it. Preferably +140 Kph if it doesn't have JJ's.
I tried doing it with 113 Kph. It just barelly works at that speed. 97 Kph would be much too low. No way i could use it the way i do now.

I would have to join the mainfiring line to avoid being hunted down by lights.

I want to make use of the Kit Fox but as long as i can't get more speed out of it i just plain can't buy a clan pack.

Understood. Just saying that I have gotten it to work for myself. We each play differently.

I just don't think the slower clan lights are going to be a problem. They will have the weapons of most mediums, if not heavies. I think that will be their saving grace, combined with their fastish speeds...

[Spleenslitta]

Tesunie, on 18 March 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

Understood. Just saying that I have gotten it to work for myself. We each play differently.

I just don't think the slower clan lights are going to be a problem. They will have the weapons of most mediums, if not heavies. I think that will be their saving grace, combined with their fastish speeds...

True. But they better give us a really fast light mech soon after launching the clans or things could go pearshaped quickly.
As i said earlier. I didn't mean to offend. I just can't use the current clan lights, but that's just me and my peculiar ways.

Come to think of it....There are a lot of speedfreak players out there who cannot be fully satisfied unless they are going at 140-160 Kph.
I've seen some pretty wacky players using light mechs like armed racecars.

Could it be that PGI lost most of those customers when it comes to the clan pack by having such a low speed that cannot be increased by any means?
Well there is the speed tweak but that can't do much.

[CyclonerM]

Tesunie, on 18 March 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

What? LRMs on a light, and less than 20LRMs isn't enough?

But seriously, I do fairly well in this mech, all things considered. An average of 200 damage, with higher scores of 300 damage... Not bad for a slow moving DoA mech build. Right?

Aff. A Clan mate used to run a LRM Locust similar to yours

Quote

And for you: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...60c653d5c1bff86
Works very well I find. I use the speed to carefully sneak up behind the enemy, and then Gauss them in the back. Then, hide. It's plenty fast enough for what I've wanted it do. I don't see how the Uller will be too much different, considering the Uller will be able to take even more weapons than my Cicada probably has on it...

It only took me a second to think about the Kit Fox A. More speed, a Gauss Rifle and TWO medium lasers, but less armor..

Aside from the latter thing, it is a light which can do the job of a medium!

[Tesunie]

CyclonerM, on 18 March 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Aff. A Clan mate used to run a LRM Locust similar to yours

I wont tell you how much I've been told this build sucks on the forums. Needless to say though, no one seems able to hit a slow Locust! I don't get it personally, but I'll work with it! (And yeah smaller leg hit boxes! Need to check that out soon.)

CyclonerM, on 18 March 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

It only took me a second to think about the Kit Fox A. More speed, a Gauss Rifle and TWO medium lasers, but less armor..

Aside from the latter thing, it is a light which can do the job of a medium!

Easily. They could also probably remove some ammo as well (down to 3 tons, considering armor levels) and place more lasers on, giving it a nice long range weapon, and a decent close up punch, with ER med lasers as well!

I could even see them with 2 CERPPCs, and 2 CERMLs, and run as well as the 2 PPC Jenner/Raven. Hot, but covers close range and long range... (Or 2 CERPPCs and with some omni 2 SSRMs for close range pests.)

I could see one running around with 4 CSSRM6s... (And maybe even ECM as well...)

Depends upon what variants they place in, how the Omni system will really work, and how they do the hard points for each variant...

[Gremlich Johns]

My experience running Clan Lights like the Kit Fox and Adder tells me that you should worry about them.

Just cuz they are not flying along the ground does not mean they are not a threat. People poo-poo the HBK-4G in MWO and look what it does at the hands of a capable pilot. My max in that particular mech is 800 damage, 3 kills and 4 assists in one match (high scorer). 648 dmg with 2 kills, 8 assists just this Saturday (high scorer). And that's using a joystick and a Razer Nostromo in both instances.

More often than not, it is the mechwarrior, not the mech, that makes the difference.

[CyclonerM]

Gremlich Johns, on 18 March 2014 - 06:49 PM, said:

More often than not, it is the mechwarrior, not the mech, that makes the difference.

You sound like a Hell's Horse: the man above the machine!

You are right. The 'Mech is not better or worse, but only easier or harder to use well. Otherwise, how could i have had such a funny drop like that, some days ago, with my brawling Hunchback 4H? It was a crazy brawling battle. I spit on the meta!