152 replies to this topic

[Kjudoon]

To reiterate:

Your style of play is not everyone else's style of play.

If you have no respect for the person who wants to play stealthy ambush hunter, or is not willing to be homicidal twitch monkey treats for someone, you have no business ghosting them. If you cannot handle that respect for other people on your team, go play single player somewhere else where the world revolves around you and you can make it as easy or hard as the AI allows you.

[Damon Howe]

Kjudoon, on 05 March 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

To reiterate:

Your style of play is not everyone else's style of play.

If you have no respect for the person who wants to play stealthy ambush hunter, or is not willing to be homicidal twitch monkey treats for someone, you have no business ghosting them. If you cannot handle that respect for other people on your team, go play single player somewhere else where the world revolves around you and you can make it as easy or hard as the AI allows you.

As someone who is a consistent ambush predator, I cannot emphasize this enough.

Camping your own base and waiting for an enemy attack is not afking, and does not deserve the harassment you get for it.

[Bloodweaver]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 February 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

I have probably had a boatload more interaction with the Devs than you, and am pretty sure I understand the INTENT of the griefing rules.

Sorry to bust your ego bubble, but your degree of interaction with the devs means nothing. There are no tiers of playerhood. You are either a maker of the rulers, a follower of the rules, or a breaker of the rules. You yourself, specifically, are a player, and nothing more. Your opinion of the rules' "intent" is no more relevant than that of the guy who just started playing today. It wouldn't matter if you spent 18+ hours a day for the past six months reading every rule and every comment pertaining to every rule in detail. It wouldn't matter if your own mother was a dev. Only what the devs themselves say, via the rules, matters.

The whole point of having RULES in the first place is to preclude interpretation from being a factor. The purpose of having rules is to remove guesswork and conflict. A rule is something set in stone, intention notwithstanding, and this is by design. They are listed the way they are for the specific reason of preventing people from manipulating them into seeming to be something more to their own liking.

And once again, no, players do not have to tell you that they are hiding. That is their choice. Nothing they do justifies bad behavior on your part. They are not obligated to do jack for you. They play the game for themselves, not for you. You, on the other hand, are obligated to not give away their position. Team game or not. They get to play however they WANT to play, so long as its within the rules. And communicating their intentions to you is absolutely not required. You play your way, they play theirs.

1453 R, on 05 March 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

If you feel you have an honest fighting chance against the two or three damaged enemies remaining on that side, tell your team such and most of the time, I imagine they’ll back you.

See above. I don't have to tell you how I want to play the game. I do not require your approval. You are just a player. You are nobody. I owe you nothing.

1453 R, on 05 March 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

But if you expect that sort of courtesy from the rest of us, then please extend us the courtesy of not holding our ‘Mechs hostage for ten extra minutes at the end of a stomp when you’re outnumbered more than four to one and have no realistic chance whatsoever of getting anything done.

I don't expect any courtesy from anyone. Courtesy is irrelevant. I only expect you to abide by the contract to which you agreed. Don't give away my position. If you don't want to wait ten minutes before the next match, ESC -> Quit Match. If you want the XP and C-Bill rewards, wait it out. That's the price you pay. You don't get something for nothing. Want more money? Be patient. Want to hurry things up? Pay some resources. If you don't want to wait ten minutes but do want to use the same 'mech, well... tough. That's not the game you agreed to play when you downloaded, installed, read the ToS, and clicked "I agree."

1453 R, on 05 March 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

The 5D carries its positioning with it as it goes, and you’ll have to pardon me if I don’t particularly feel like sacrificing my rewards or my game time to watch you stroke your E&E *****. If you want to play Ghost Recon, go play Ghost Recon. Let the rest of us keep playing MechWarrior.

And here comes the whine. ME, MY, MINE. This game doesn't belong to you. Even the 'mechs in your garage don't belong to you. More to the point, the way *I* (or anyone else) play the game, ESPECIALLY doesn't belong to you. And this position, as much as you disagree with it, is entirely supported by the designers of the game. A.k.a., the people who DO own the game, the mechs in your garage, and the way I (and everyone else) play it.

Deal with it.

Also: hiding has always been a part of Mechwarrior. If you want to play CoD, go play that. Let the rest of us, who are willing to set up ambushes, take as many down with us as we can, and make use of attrition tactics -all vastly important parts of both BT and MW- play Mechwarrior.

CygnusX7, on 05 March 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Unfortunately most players IMMEDIATELY ASSUME a TEAMMATE has shut down to save their K/D ratio. Just because they're shutdown doesn't mean they aren't waiting for the slightest tactical advantage to possibly get another kill or a little more damage. It has happened to me. In a light, legged, but still have weapons. Enemy team is just over the hill and I hid until they went the other way and a straggler came my way. This allowed me to have the slightest redemption before the game was over.

Exactly. Everyone who whines about hiders only trying to preserve their K/D ratios do nothing but divulge their own faults. They complain because they want to preserve their XP/C-bill income rates, and can't understand any other mentality. Such as the mentality of playing for fun. Killing a lone 'mech out of the six looking for you is fun. Running into the pack of them to commit suicide is not.

If I'm the last guy on my team, up against 5 or more still on the enemy's, I will gleefully sneak around. Hide. Even if I get no further kills. Why? Because they are the enemy. I am not in the business of giving them rewards. I am in the business of making their job as difficult as humanly possible. I don't care for the fact they become inconvenienced - in fact, I delight in it, and rightfully so. They're the other team. They should SUFFER for killing me.

Nor do I care for the tales of dead men crying about how they want to make more money. You're dead, who cares what you think?

Once again, this is what it all boils down to - what sums it all up - the end result of the entire thread, now and forever:

Kjudoon, on 05 March 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

Your style of play is not everyone else's style of play.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 05 March 2014 - 11:14 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bloodweaver, on 05 March 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Sorry to bust your ego bubble, but your degree of interaction with the devs means nothing. There are no tiers of playerhood. You are either a maker of the rulers, a follower of the rules, or a breaker of the rules. You yourself, specifically, are a player, and nothing more. Your opinion of the rules' "intent" is no more relevant than that of the guy who just started playing today. It wouldn't matter if you spent 18+ hours a day for the past six months reading every rule and every comment pertaining to every rule in detail. It wouldn't matter if your own mother was a dev. Only what the devs themselves say, via the rules, matters.

The whole point of having RULES in the first place is to preclude interpretation from being a factor. The purpose of having rules is to remove guesswork and conflict. A rule is something set in stone, intention notwithstanding, and this is by design. They are listed the way they are for the specific reason of preventing people from manipulating them into seeming to be something more to their own liking.

And once again, no, players do not have to tell you that they are hiding. That is their choice. Nothing they do justifies bad behavior on your part. They are not obligated to do jack for you. They play the game for themselves, not for you. You, on the other hand, are obligated to not give away their position. Team game or not. They get to play however they WANT to play, so long as its within the rules. And communicating their intentions to you is absolutely not required. You play your way, they play theirs.



See above. I don't have to tell you how I want to play the game. I do not require your approval. You are just a player. You are nobody. I owe you nothing.



I don't expect any courtesy from anyone. Courtesy is irrelevant. I only expect you to abide by the contract to which you agreed. Don't give away my position. If you don't want to wait ten minutes before the next match, ESC -> Quit Match. If you want the XP and C-Bill rewards, wait it out. That's the price you pay. You don't get something for nothing. Want more money? Be patient. Want to hurry things up? Pay some resources. If you don't want to wait ten minutes but do want to use the same 'mech, well... tough. That's not the game you agreed to play when you downloaded, installed, read the ToS, and clicked "I agree."



And here comes the whine. ME, MY, MINE. This game doesn't belong to you. Even the 'mechs in your garage don't belong to you. More to the point, the way *I* (or anyone else) play the game, ESPECIALLY doesn't belong to you. And this position, as much as you disagree with it, is entirely supported by the designers of the game. A.k.a., the people who DO own the game, the mechs in your garage, and the way I (and everyone else) play it.

Deal with it.

Also: hiding has always been a part of Mechwarrior. If you want to play CoD, go play that. Let the rest of us, who are willing to set up ambushes, take as many down with us as we can, and make use of attrition tactics -all vastly important parts of both BT and MW- play Mechwarrior.



Exactly. Everyone who whines about hiders only trying to preserve their K/D ratios do nothing but divulge their own faults. They complain because they want to preserve their XP/C-bill income rates, and can't understand any other mentality. Such as the mentality of playing for fun. Killing a lone 'mech out of the six looking for you is fun. Running into the pack of them to commit suicide is not.

If I'm the last guy on my team, up against 5 or more still on the enemy's, I will gleefully sneak around. Hide. Even if I get no further kills. Why? Because they are the enemy. I am not in the business of giving them rewards. I am in the business of making their job as difficult as humanly possible. I don't care for the fact they become inconvenienced - in fact, I delight in it, and rightfully so. They're the other team. They should SUFFER for killing me.

Nor do I care for the tales of dead men crying about how they want to make more money. You're dead, who cares what you think?

Once again, this is what it all boils down to - what sums it all up - the end result of the entire thread, now and forever:

not too good at reading comprehension, eh? Nothing to do with "tiered enforcement" of rules, but having had the intent of the rules explained by those who actually enforce them. And thus obviously understanding their application better than you.

Players who obviously have no intention of engaging the enemy and are hiding in hopes of protecting their stats, are needlessly locking other players mechs in game, is considered griefing. If a player "intends" an ambush, he should alert his teammates. Regardless, exposing his location is also griefing.

Assuming ego is involved sound more like ego projection on your own part, which in turns indicates the only ego at play here is yours.

[Bloodweaver]

Players do not need to alert their teammates of how they wish to play. Expecting other players to tell you how they want to play is egotistical, because you have no say in the matter. Assuming that they hide "in hopes of protecting their stats" is also just that - an assumption. You could just as easily assume that they are hiding for gameplay reasons. Which one of those two assumptions you make says a lot about your way of thinking and nothing about theirs. If I hide, and someone thinks I'm saving my KDR, that's based on nothing but his own thought processes. No matter how strongly he believes that to be the case, no matter how "obvious" it is, doesn't change the fact that he's wrong. And his being wrong is not on me, it's on him, because the assumption was made only by him.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 05 March 2014 - 11:50 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

There is nothing more annoying than the dead guys who yell at you to suicide just because they don't want to quit game and take another mech.

Don't die and you won't have to watch the last player, period.

[Alaskan Nobody]

o0Marduk0o, on 05 March 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Don't die and you won't have to watch the last player, period.

Not always their choice or skill that gets them killed.

[Akerlof]

Kjudoon, on 05 March 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

To reiterate:

Your style of play is not everyone else's style of play.

If you have no respect for the person who wants to play stealthy ambush hunter, or is not willing to be homicidal twitch monkey treats for someone, you have no business ghosting them. If you cannot handle that respect for other people on your team, go play single player somewhere else where the world revolves around you and you can make it as easy or hard as the AI allows you.

If the person is making any attempt whatsoever to play the game, I give them the benefit of the doubt.

No matter how badly you're doing at ambushing the enemy, if you're at least trying I'll keep quiet. Sometimes ambush tactics are great and shutdowns can be strategic: If you think you're the last one alive when your team has enough caps and resources to maybe win a conquest game, pleasepleaseplease go find a quiet corner and shut down. If you're the last one alive on Assault and you shut down a short way from our base, got for it. If it's 6 against you in a skirmish mode, go ahead and run like mad to get separation and hope to get into a 1 on 1 with someone, that's fine. I'll take notes on where you are and if it worked if you shut down with a strategic point in view in hopes of ambushing someone. If we're up on kills but your mechs are in bad shape on skirmish, hiding as a group to win on numbers is an excellent strategy. Even if you're wandering around looking at the terrain, you're at least doing something and I'm going to leave you be: You're at least playing the game.

But if you haven't moved from your starting point since the beginning of the match, or if you're shut down in a corner face first into a wall so that you can't see anything (on skirmish, or don't react to a base cap on assault) you aren't playing the game. You've got to be able to detect the enemy to ambush them, is there any strategy anyone can think of that requires you to a.) be shut down and b.) not be able to identify an enemy unless they start shooting you?

If you give me any indication whatsoever that you are playing the game and not intentionally wasting my time without at least spending your own time, go for it. If you're just not there, you should be killed as quickly as possible so 23 other people don't have to stare at a wall for 10 minutes. Dragging out matches for no gameplay purpose reduces the amount of time I actually get to play. I respect your right to play the way you want to, but expect you to actually _be playing_ when you're preventing me from playing.

Edited by Akerlof, 05 March 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Shar Wolf, on 05 March 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

Not always their choice or skill that gets them killed.

Sure but then I would stay silent and not insult the players alive to die faster.

[Barkem Squirrel]

I know some people do 'find a place to park the mech' to take care of real world issues, emergency bio brake, kids or other issues like constituents coming to the house with pitchforks and torches. Well maybe not all that but yes some things are more important than 1's and 0's.

The part with constituents is true, except for the pitchforks and torches, after raising taxes and the sewer rates.

There are others that are worried about KDR and I feel for them. My self If I am the last one I will find a safe place and chat to find what I am up against if anyone will talk back on chat. That is if I am not already in combat. Knowing how many, what type, where are the damaged helps alot if you only have two or three left. Conquest is a different story, I want to know what is fast and where they are.

If I am in a light, they better have patience while I nip at them and run away. Only to repeat from a different direction.

I was on the volcano map in a Griffon that was almost not damaged, so I found a nice ambush site up high for the three non JJ mechs chasing me. A few LRMs, LL and duck. In the end two were dead and I was chasing the zombie atlas when we won by points.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

But if you haven't moved from your starting point since the beginning of the match, or if you're shut down in a corner face first into a wall so that you can't see anything (on skirmish, or don't react to a base cap on assault) you aren't playing the game. You've got to be able to detect the enemy to ambush them, is there any strategy anyone can think of that requires you to a.) be shut down and b.) not be able to identify an enemy unless they start shooting you?

Seems to me that there is a near total absence of respect for other people's playstyles that others seem to think justifying breaking the rules. Let's be honest here: it doesn't excuse being a ball of excrament and team traitor. Criticise their play all you want as long as it's in the rules. Remember, bullying and cussing IS against TOS too. QQ all you want to them and even in open chat, but don't violate TOS and that includes ghosting them. If this is too much to ask of you, you need to reconsider why you are here.

In response to the quote above and not to put too fine a point on it, this statement assumes a lot. Why are they facing a corner shut down? You don't know. Maybe their baby started crying and to protect themselves while the match is going on they did this in hopes of dealing with what's distressing their child. Maybe they had something happen to them like a teammate went through last night where his ping went to zero, and he was stuck. You don't know, so don't assume he's just griefing you. They could be a sucky ambush hunter as well. It's happened to everyone out there who's got a life outside this game.

Regardless, if you do not want to wait? Tough. You either have other mechs that you can use to drop because if a guy's shut down and refusing to fight because it's pointless and all he's doing is watching mechs stomp by and laughing because they didn't see him, you can bail and lose nothing of your XP or CBills already earned. He's not gonna get you any more. If you needed that engine, or modules... buy more of them or use a trial mech. Problem solved. If you don't like the solution, sit there and spectate. If you can't do that... Uninstall and play something more your temperment in single person mode, you're not behaved enough for being in public.

Some people need a case of 'grow the heck up' and respect other's gameplay choices.

[Ravnis]

I understand whats at stake for my teammates with their mech being held in a match. I can't find this as any reason to start shouting positions. I have been in the same situation like everyone else and I am always watching, trying to find a good place for them to make a difference, I don't assume they can win, but i would never fault a player for playing their game and trying to squeeze out a bit more for the team, even if it means you still lose.

Last night, there were two light mechs left alive, one legged and in a corner of the ramp into the middle of HPC and 5 living enemies. The one light rushed out and managed a kill before going down in a blaze for this same courtesy. The legged light mech stayed where he was, and took down 4 straight enemy mechs with only one leg and in the same corner for us to garner the win.

Also last night, I was the last mech alive in an ECM Raven with my entire team dead in an 11-0 romp. My team yelling for me to "JUST DIE ALREADY!", "WE WANT OUR MECHS!!!!!" So I promptly told them to be quiet, maneuvered, shut down for 20 seconds, came out and managed to garner our team 4 kills before I went down because the enemy team decided to stay bunched up after their buddies went down. I'd say, time well spent and garnered a lot of people extra exp because I didn't just rush in.

I keep seeing, dieing for your team is a courtesy, courtesy, courtesy. The way I see it, it's courtesy for my team to allow me to play how I like. You see it as a courtesy for your one teammate to die for you. Courtesy is a two way street in this situation. Never assume because I didn't rush in and get romped that I am discourteous if I play my own way. You chose your way to play that round, I get to choose mine. Please don't assume your rights outweigh theirs. As I told one person last night when he said to just rush in and get it over with. I simply said, "Looks like that worked out well for you."

Edited by Rex Antilles, 05 March 2014 - 03:56 PM.

[1453 R]

Bloodweaver, on 05 March 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Colossal pile of yak spew

I don't normally do this, and am going to get dinged for doing it now, but...

Pardon me, Bloodweaver, but I believe your jimmies have achieved maximum over-rustle there, buddy. Because I have not seen such a gigantic pile of steaming garbage in months, and I check these forums most every day. That is an accomplishment worthy of a bleep-bloop, good sir!

Now, on to why the yak spew is yak spew. Let's do this, shall we? *Rolls up sleeves, gets to work*

Bloodweaver, on 05 March 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

The whole point of having RULES in the first place is to preclude interpretation from being a factor. The purpose of having rules is to remove guesswork and conflict. A rule is something set in stone, intention notwithstanding, and this is by design. They are listed the way they are for the specific reason of preventing people from manipulating them into seeming to be something more to their own liking.

Never met a lawyer, have you? Rules or otherwise?

Here's the skinny, son: there are millions of cases, every single day, of people twisting the letter of the law to break or seriously warp its spirit. The spirit of the participation clauses in the rules of the game is to encourage players to, y'know...PARTICIPATE. IN A MATCH. Participation at the beginning of the match does not equal participation at the end of the match. Players should be engaged in the match the whole way through, and running off into a corner to hide, for whatever reason, does not count as being engaged in the match. If your children are suddenly crying and you need to find out why? Go do that - I'm sorry it's spiking your match participation, and if for whatever reason I know about it (and there's the biggie, right there!), I'll even do my best to try and defend until until you can make it back. If you're parked and shut down in a good overwatch position, clearly waiting to ambush a cap point or an assault base, then a'ight. Not the tactic I would've chosen, but a tactic nonetheless. Enjoy. If you're maneuvering around the edges of the enemy heard, dipping in to scout and take potshots, trying to slice down whatever you can at the end, cool. I'll sit back and watch, or I'll decide you're boring, DC, and take my halved rewards. At least you're trying.

If you're not trying - and I can recognize a pilot whose not trying when I see one, it's not exactly rocket science - then I'm going to give you grief, because that is exactly what you're giving me. Against the letter of the rules? Unless I give away your position, no. You can deal with me heckling you for being a colossal donkey bottom just like I can deal with the fact that you've stolen my 'Mech for the next ten minutes. And frankly, me giving away the coordinates of an obvious grieftroller may be against the letter of the rules - but we both know which side of that debate is breaking their spirit, and this guy right here doesn't give a DAMN CRAP about the letter. Break the spirit of the rules and I will give you hell. If you don't like it...well, hey. You can always play a different game, just like you keep telling me to do!

Bloodweaver, on 05 March 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

See above. I don't have to tell you how I want to play the game. I do not require your approval. You are just a player. You are nobody. I owe you nothing.

Not only offensive, not only arrogant as hell, but objectively incorrect, as well!

Guess what? This is a multiplayer game. Without other players, you don't get to play. If you're a negative influence in this game, ruining other folks' experiences, then you're the one in the wrong, not me. You do, in fact, owe me the basic courtesy due any fellow human being, because without me there to provide you an opponent or a teammate - without all the other folks in this game whom you're telling me are all nobodies unworthy of your time - you wouldn't be able to play a single game of MechWarrior Online

There is no 'just' about being a player. I'm no less 'nobody' than you are. And you owe me respect for enabling you to play this game. Just like I owe you, or Kjudoon, or Victor Cod-Whalloping Morson, or anyone else who drops alongside me - and just like they owe me. And if you don't understand that, then you have no business playing a multiplayer game.

Bloodweaver, on 05 March 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

And here comes the whine. ME, MY, MINE. This game doesn't belong to you. Even the 'mechs in your garage don't belong to you. More to the point, the way *I* (or anyone else) play the game, ESPECIALLY doesn't belong to you. And this position, as much as you disagree with it, is entirely supported by the designers of the game. A.k.a., the people who DO own the game, the mechs in your garage, and the way I (and everyone else) play it.

Deal with it.

Also: hiding has always been a part of Mechwarrior. If you want to play CoD, go play that. Let the rest of us, who are willing to set up ambushes, take as many down with us as we can, and make use of attrition tactics -all vastly important parts of both BT and MW- play Mechwarrior.

"ME, MY, MINE. DEAL WITH IT."

It's absolutely amazing how easily I could turn that right back around on you. Who are you to believe yourself so superior to everyone else that you can command their time, steal their rewards, or lock up their 'Mechs however you want, just because you don't like fighting when there's actually still a chance left to win? Contribute to the victory when there's still a good chance for it to happen, or accept defeat gracefully and move on instead of pitching a temper tantrum and griefing the rest of us because you don't feel like dying. Guess what: neither did the rest of us, but sometimes stuff just happens, eh?

Also: BattleTech is a tabletop game spanning entire campaigns between regimental-sized units or greater, and previous MW titles have been largely single-player affairs. Attrition tactics work much better when you can skip entire months of time simply by agreeing to do so, and you can do whatever the hell you like in a single-player game. MWO is neither of those titles. If you want to play hour-long battles of Hide and Seek, wait for private matches and do those. Because I, for one, did not sign up to watch some Spider who didn't help the rest of us out before the match was decided burn the entire match timer playing a doomed-to-fail Assassin's Creed mission instead of MechWarrior.

Bloodweaver, on 05 March 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

If I'm the last guy on my team, up against 5 or more still on the enemy's, I will gleefully sneak around. Hide. Even if I get no further kills. Why? Because they are the enemy. I am not in the business of giving them rewards. I am in the business of making their job as difficult as humanly possible. I don't care for the fact they become inconvenienced - in fact, I delight in it, and rightfully so. They're the other team. They should SUFFER for killing me.

Nor do I care for the tales of dead men crying about how they want to make more money. You're dead, who cares what you think?

News flash: you are not Frank Castle. It is not your job to punish me for dying, should I fall before you do, and it is not your job to punish the other team for daring to be the other team. This is not a war, wherein your life, beliefs, and fellow countrymen ride on each victory. This is a game, that you play with other gamers, who are nominally folks whom you could chill out and tip a beer with if you ever met in real life. Making their lives miserable is not a laudable goal, it is straight-up trolling. Griefing. Douchebaggery. Whatever you'd like to call it. If you want to be a giant rooster, what with your stupendous superiority complex and all, then you had best be prepared to catch flak for it. I am not an enemy soldier trying to tear down your way of life, I'm a MWO player. Show me the respect you'd show a guy on the other side of the arcade machine in real life, who is fully physically capable of punching you in the face for showing the sort of behavior that pile of yak spew entails, or be prepared to hear about it.

I may not be able to punch you in the face as you so richly deserve, but I can certainly punch you in the ears. After all, I'm nobody, right?! You can take Nobody calling your superiority-complex garbage out for just exactly what it is, boy howdy yes you can!

[Darth Futuza]

I've seen the last mech alive kill off 6 players being sneaky and win the match. Thus it is a complete valid and freaking awesome tactic.

However, if the guy is clearly afk then I consider it good sportsmanship to give up his coordinates/position so both teams can move on. Of course you should be sure he really is afk/disconnected, since that'd be quite rude to give away his coords/position without his permission if he were really just being sneaky.

Edited by Darth Futuza, 05 March 2014 - 04:14 PM.

[1453 R]

Darth Futuza, on 05 March 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

I've seen the last mech alive kill off 6 players being sneaky and win the match. Thus it is a complete valid and freaking awesome tactic.

However, if the guy is clearly afk then I consider it good sportsmanship to give up his coordinates/position so both teams can move on. Of course you should be sure he really is afk/disconnected, since that'd be quite rude to give away his coords/position without his permission if he were really just being sneaky.

That seems to be the main disconnect, Darth. Folks like Bloodweaver are assuming that the rest of us are instantly reporting coordinates for anyone who lasts twenty seconds longer than the rest of his team in any match, regardless of circumstances.

This is simply not true.

I'm not a fresh-faced rookie. I can tell when someone is trying to play the guerrilla, and I can tell when someone is being a jerk. The former may do as they like, though I'm not going to lie and say I've seen half a dozen Action Movie Hero Stars pull off six-to-one victories in the last week, the way everyone else is. There's a reason nobody counts on those kinds of victories - the odds of pulling it off are so far beneath low that I'm not sure if I've ever seen it. The closest I've ever gotten is the game referenced in my own signature, and I still lost that one to base cap.

What I'm saying, and what I imagine the rest of the folks on my side of the fence are saying, is that it is a breach of the spirit of the rules, if not the letter, to twist the participation clause into allowing you to go AFK two minutes after a match starts and still drag out the fight as long as possible because you parked yourself in your favorite awkward griefing spot. There's no reason for it, no logical justification for why we shouldn't be able to guide the enemy team - who is comprised of our fellow MWO players and deserve our respect as much as our own teammates do - to an AFK grieftroll so that we can all move on with our day. The only person who loses is the troll, and frankly he deserves to lose.

If you're not actively engaged in the match, for the entire match, then the participation rules should not offer you protection. Yeah, sometimes life happens, and it sucks, but really, most of us are good about that. Sudden net-trouble DCs, sudden family-emergency AFKs, I totally get those. It happens, it sucks, and you have my condolences when it hits you. But don't you dare act like I'm some manner of wicked anti-human terrorist for wanting to play the game when I'm playing the game, not be forced to watch some smug little Jenner play SpecOps Hero for fifteen minutes or forfeit half my g'damned match reward.

[Craig Steele]

1453 R, on 05 March 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

That seems to be the main disconnect, Darth. Folks like Bloodweaver are assuming that the rest of us are instantly reporting coordinates for anyone who lasts twenty seconds longer than the rest of his team in any match, regardless of circumstances.

This is simply not true.

I'm not a fresh-faced rookie. I can tell when someone is trying to play the guerrilla, and I can tell when someone is being a jerk. The former may do as they like, though I'm not going to lie and say I've seen half a dozen Action Movie Hero Stars pull off six-to-one victories in the last week, the way everyone else is. There's a reason nobody counts on those kinds of victories - the odds of pulling it off are so far beneath low that I'm not sure if I've ever seen it. The closest I've ever gotten is the game referenced in my own signature, and I still lost that one to base cap.

What I'm saying, and what I imagine the rest of the folks on my side of the fence are saying, is that it is a breach of the spirit of the rules, if not the letter, to twist the participation clause into allowing you to go AFK two minutes after a match starts and still drag out the fight as long as possible because you parked yourself in your favorite awkward griefing spot. There's no reason for it, no logical justification for why we shouldn't be able to guide the enemy team - who is comprised of our fellow MWO players and deserve our respect as much as our own teammates do - to an AFK grieftroll so that we can all move on with our day. The only person who loses is the troll, and frankly he deserves to lose.

If you're not actively engaged in the match, for the entire match, then the participation rules should not offer you protection. Yeah, sometimes life happens, and it sucks, but really, most of us are good about that. Sudden net-trouble DCs, sudden family-emergency AFKs, I totally get those. It happens, it sucks, and you have my condolences when it hits you. But don't you dare act like I'm some manner of wicked anti-human terrorist for wanting to play the game when I'm playing the game, not be forced to watch some smug little Jenner play SpecOps Hero for fifteen minutes or forfeit half my g'damned match reward.

And what the 'people' on your side of the fence are doing is 'assuming' you know what the last man standing is intending.

This is really a Black and White thing and not open to interpretation. The rules are very clear, call out someone's position and you are committing treachery and as per the ToS, liable for punishment (assuming it is reported).

If you don't want to play a 15 minute game you have two choices.

One, Don't play skirmish. Press the check box at the launch page and choose another game option that has a capping option. No one is forcing you to play a 15 minute game except yourself. Execute what is in your power to do and choose another game option.

Two, don't die. If you didn't die your team mate would not be the last man standing and the point is mute. Get better and win every game so your mech is unlocked when your game ends.

Honestly it's just not hard folks. People begged and screamed for a death match / skirmish game mode and this scenario of last man standing was predicted over and over. On balance PGI implemented and the community got what it asked for.

I'm not going to tell you to how to play your game, please don't tell me how to play mine.

[1453 R]

Craig Steele, on 05 March 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

This is really a Black and White thing and not open to interpretation. The rules are very clear, call out someone's position and you are committing treachery and as per the ToS, liable for punishment (assuming it is reported).

And I'm telling you that it's kind of a junk rule that should probably be changed.

Until such time as I have a Retreat option, or a way of leaving a game early without losing half of my accumulated rewards so far, as Escape>Quit does to me so regularly, then I'm going to ask players to not waste my time, their time, and everyone else's time playing a match that's already been decided. Most of the time, that's exactly what I do - ask. I'll note, "Oh well. At least we tried. Blaze-of-glory time, [Player Name]," and they'll either do it or not. Give me an option to bow out gracefully and I'll gladly take that. But oh, hey! Now you're demanding I either watch you run around and accomplish jack-all for however long it takes, or lose the experience that this game NEVER GIVES ME when I Esc>Quit, the way everyone keeps telling me to.

((NOTE:: there's a good dozen games in my recent memory where a chassis has not incremented experience upwards after unlocking from a previous match, despite the 'Mech itself unlocking. Congratulations - match: wasted.)

If you're actively trolling, then I'm going to countertroll you the only way that works - since everyone knows that reporting anything whatsoever that doesn't involve the word 'hack' is a bigger waste of time than last-man-standing Commando Games. And I'm going to give you all nine rings of the Inferno if you use bulldonk excuses like "I shot two PPC blasts at the start of the match, I participated!" to try and rules-lawyer justify it.

Someone said earlier that they respond to calls for a bow-out with "You guys had your shot. Now it's my turn." Here's my response:

Why didn't you take your turn at the same time the rest of your team was taking theirs?!

Edited by 1453 R, 05 March 2014 - 05:50 PM.

[Kjudoon]

....aaaaaaaaaand this is precisely the reason I do not willingly play Skirmish mode. Even after months and months of "Capping is for (insert explitive derision)" on assault the thugs and twitch munchkins and control freaks and psychopaths got their precious team deathmatch.

And now, when some poor ******'s dragged into their swirly little hate spiral and 'opts out' of being chew toys for mental monsters, they're now wanting to rewrite heaven and hell in order to force others to act just like them instead.

Face it. You got what you screamed, ranted and raved for, and it bit you on your big entitled tushies. If you can get PGI to keep us out of the hog mire that is Skirmish mode and the pigs that scream in there, I'll more than happily sign the petition to keep y'all away from me and vice versa. Till then, suck it up you delicate doilies and deal with the consequences of your flaming hot desires. Not everyone is going to lay themselves down on the aztec altar you created for yourselves.

[Alaskan Nobody]

1453 R, on 05 March 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

And I'm telling you that it's kind of a junk rule that should probably be changed.

Yelling at us about how much you hate the rule does nothing to either convince us to listen to you or change the rule.

You have made your point very clear.
Repeatedly clear.



At this point the conversation is going nowhere - just like the balance threads.

I am honestly surprised this thread was not shut down more than a week ago.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 05 March 2014 - 06:15 PM.

[Craig Steele]

1453 R, on 05 March 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

And I'm telling you that it's kind of a junk rule that should probably be changed.

Until such time as I have a Retreat option, or a way of leaving a game early without losing half of my accumulated rewards so far (1), as Escape>Quit does to me so regularly, then I'm going to ask players to not waste my time, their time, and everyone else's time playing a match that's already been decided. Most of the time, that's exactly what I do - ask. I'll note, "Oh well. At least we tried. Blaze-of-glory time, [Player Name]," and they'll either do it or not. Give me an option to bow out gracefully and I'll gladly take that. But oh, hey! Now you're demanding I either watch you run around and accomplish jack-all for however long it takes, or lose the experience that this game NEVER GIVES ME when I Esc>Quit, the way everyone keeps telling me to.

((NOTE:: there's a good dozen games in my recent memory where a chassis has not incremented experience upwards after unlocking from a previous match, despite the 'Mech itself unlocking. Congratulations - match: wasted.)

If you're actively trolling, then I'm going to countertroll you the only way that works - since everyone knows that reporting anything whatsoever that doesn't involve the word 'hack' is a bigger waste of time than last-man-standing Commando Games. And I'm going to give you all nine rings of the Inferno if you use bulldonk excuses like "I shot two PPC blasts at the start of the match, I participated!" to try and rules-lawyer justify it.

Someone said earlier that they respond to calls for a bow-out with "You guys had your shot. Now it's my turn." Here's my response:

Why didn't you take your turn at the same time the rest of your team was taking theirs?!

LOL, You don't even think about it do you, you're jumping an a band wagon with an emotional outburst that has no basis.

(1) Press escape, select quit match. You loose NOTHING from exiting a match when you are dead except potential assists from kills your team mates get after your death. Seeing as you have no confidence in your team mate getting any further kills (the reason for your stance on this subject, that they are wasting time) you loose nothing by pressing escape.

It does give you the rewards, PGI have confirmed you get the rewards. You might have to wait a moment or two for the match to end and it kick down, but I have seen my C-Bills and XP go up and many others have reported the same.

If you're not getting the rewards you should report it to support because that is definitly not PGI's intention or the experience other people have.

You assume is that that last man standing is trolling you. You DON"T know what they are thinking, what their game plan is. You think you do, but you DON'T. They are just as entitled to play the game within the rules as you are. Don't hate them because they are better than you and didn't die first.

Which is why the ToS has a treachery rule. So by all means, countertroll (your word) away but do so knowing that you're breaching the ToS and you're the one liable for punishment (whatever it may be)