152 replies to this topic

[PapaBear14]

Maybe it is because i am newer to this game that i dont see the upside to Capping in assualt and conquest. You make more in C bills and exp losing in a skirmish then you do winning by capping. They should rework the rewards for winning the other game types or make changes to them that add more incentive to fight. Like making assualt into more of an attack and defend style game where one team has to defend their base.

[Craig Steele]

Ryoken, on 27 February 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

I do not argue that shutting down can be a legit tactic as I pointed out for conquest.

But in skirmish mode it most certainly isn't and therefore rules need to be changed. Annoying the majority of players for some lausy play on numbers that do not mean anything is ridiculous. (Maybe an artificially inflated k/d ratio can be used to identify cowards and not team oriented players if anything...)

It is an abuse of the TOS no matter how you deny it or try to hide behind its words while twisting the intend.

I do not give away positions but I can understand why other players do and why those hiding players get a lot of rage and I think they earned it!

So there needs to be a solution and the easiest way is to take away the incentive/motivation/reason why people do hide and shutdown in skirmish: Autokill the whole losing team!

The easiest solution is to select conquest or assualt in the game select mode.

[Kjudoon]

Craig Steele, on 27 February 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

The easiest solution is to select conquest or assualt in the game select mode.

Then we're back to endless whines about what kind of a win Capping is. To which I say, 'go play skirmish'. But then you can't cap out if that one guy decides he doesn't want to put his mouth on your UAC5 and play russian roulette. So you whine about the Hiders.

Face it, they can't win or shut up about it.

[Craig Steele]

Sug, on 27 February 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

Any assists you got after your death are given after the match ends. If you quit before the match ends you lose those rewards. Sometimes assists make up almost half my cbill rewards.

So I guess if you care about how much you make per match you are "forced" to stay until the match ends.

This is counter productive.

If its 1 v 5 and the player thinks there is so little chance of victory to his team that he rats out his team mate, he clearly has no belief there will be any more assists.

He considered the game over, so he can disconnect and get on with the next game. Let the player who wants to win get the rewards and those who give up don't.

[Sug]

Craig Steele, on 27 February 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

This is counter productive.

If its 1 v 5 and the player thinks there is so little chance of victory to his team that he rats out his team mate, he clearly has no belief there will be any more assists.

He considered the game over, so he can disconnect and get on with the next game. Let the player who wants to win get the rewards and those who give up don't.

Any player, on either team, that gets assists after they die, do not get credit for them until the match ends.

So yeah, if a player knows he doesn't have any more money coming then he losing nothing by just quitting the match. But if the player you're talking about has given up on victory, knows he won't get any more assists, but still wants credit for the 3 he got after he died, he then benefits by telling the other team where the last member of his team is so the match ends and get his cbills.

There is a point to calling out where a shutdown team mate is hiding. What there isn't a point to is hiding in the first place.

Edited by Sug, 27 February 2014 - 07:22 PM.

[Sug]

Craig Steele, on 27 February 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

The easiest solution is to select conquest or assualt in the game select mode.

Pretty much. We have many options for being screwed over by light mechs at the end of a match : /

[Kjudoon]

I am not obligated to kill myself in a foolish act of suicide in any match. if it is 11-0 or even 11-10, nowhere is it written I must go get killed. I am even more encouraged to pee in the cornflakes of those who sit there and gloat, boast or mock the losing side as a last act of defiance. If I had a retreat function where I could exit the battlefield without penalty, I would. If you don't like that option, tough. I play my way, you play yours. You want to give some jerk the easy kill so he can laugh at you... more power to you. I'm not that way.

Ghost me and I take a screenshot and report you for team treason. If I discoed as is happening more and more to pilots lately I have no problem someone outing where I am, but then again, you better be sure I'm not sitting in my cockpit waiting too and talking or moving around my view to watch the people too addicted to their scanners to lumber by. Then again, I do everything in my power to not play skirmish so they can always go cap.

Sug, on 27 February 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

Pretty much. We have many options for being screwed over by light mechs at the end of a match : /

So play skirmish and accept the fact that on a rare occasion, you're gonna be hunting that shut down mech. Consider it a 'no-strategic-thinking tax' and required price you must pay for dozens of matches you get to go 'mech smash' and not worry about someone being able to cap your base because you don't want to protect it without incident.

Edited by Kjudoon, 27 February 2014 - 07:31 PM.

[Bloodweaver]

Sug, on 27 February 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

There is a point to calling out where a shutdown team mate is hiding. What there isn't a point to is hiding in the first place.

As has already been shown numerous times in this thread, yes, there is a point to hiding in the first place. A point that goes beyond KDR preservation, although those who call out teammates' positions are evidently too myopic to see this for themselves. Your comment divulges a capacity to interpret others' behavior only through the filter of what it would mean if you did the same thing yourself. Thus, myopic. Unable to see past your own limitations.

In the end, though, as has also been pointed out numerous times: it doesn't matter if there is a point or not. The game allows it. You, as a player of the game, do not get to choose what is allowed or not. The creator chooses that. And the choice was made to allow hiding. The choice to disallow calling out hiding teammates' positions was also made. Deal with it.

That's the game you chose to play. Want more rewards? Stick around. Want to move on to the next match? Give up some rewards. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 27 February 2014 - 07:55 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Craig Steele, on 21 February 2014 - 11:20 PM, said:

Well intheory yes. That's exactly right.

I wouldn't expect it happens that often but yes.

Shutting down is a legitimate tactic. It breaks missile locks for example. There are heaps of examples in Canon as well for it.

Bottom line is that some mechs / pilots prefer an ambush style, and thats OK within the rules of the game. Whether they do it 6 times a game or at 30 seconds in or at 12 minutes in, it's still a legitmate game. Heck some pilots take camo for exactly that tactic.

If you don't want to play a 15 minute game, then the options are assault and conquest, both have mechanics for shorter games.

But if you assume you know what another pilot is or isn't doing and post his location, it is a breach of the T&C and it's you who can be reported.

Just saying, thats all.

big difference between someone using shutdown to break locks or even set up an ambush, and a person who knows his team is losing running off to hide in a corner to protect his precious stats. Yes you can say "how do you know that person was not planning an ambush"? Well for one thing, if he is, he should chat it to his own team. That way they know what he is doing. But there is also a point where instead of locking everyones mech for 10 minutes to protect your stats, you face the inevitable and get it over with.

[Sug]

Bloodweaver, on 27 February 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

As has already been shown numerous times in this thread, yes, there is a point to hiding in the first place.

What's that point again?

[Sug]

Kjudoon, on 27 February 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

Consider it a 'no-strategic-thinking tax' and required price you must pay for dozens of matches you get to go 'mech smash' and not worry about someone being able to cap your base because you don't want to protect it without incident.

So what would a strategy for Assault be that is not skirmish in mid and then send a light to back cap?

Both teams can't defend.

If both teams attack you either end up with Skirmish or a cap race. Fun.

Send your lights out to attack and leave your heavies at base? Now all the lights are dead and we have slow mechs at opposite ends of the map.

Have one team defend and another attack? Why have two bases then?

Is it just a game of whichever team loses patience first and gets too far from their base? Fun.

Assault Mode is pointless. The only purpose the capping mechanic serves is a way for the losing team to pull off a win, or as a distraction to pull some mechs off the front line. At least in Skirmish I'm free to flank and use the terrain without having to worry about someone standing in my square.

Edited by Sug, 27 February 2014 - 08:40 PM.

[Bloodweaver]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

Well for one thing, if he is, he should chat it to his own team. That way they know what he is doing. But there is also a point where instead of locking everyones mech for 10 minutes to protect your stats, you face the inevitable and get it over with.

This is ridiculous. A player is not obligated to tell anyone anything. He is not responsible for THEM following the ToS that they AGREED to follow. Failing to chat his intentions places absolutely no blame on his head for anything other people do. They are the sole arbiters of their own actions - nobody else is to blame for what you choose to do but yourself.

And let's be frank: nothing in this game is inevitable. I've lost while piloting a DDC to a Spider who was already legged. I've also won while being the last man standing against six enemies, over half of whom were still in good health. I've killed more 'mechs while driving a LEGGED Locust than I can remember. None of these are likely occurrences, but the game does make them possible. And if someone chooses to pursue those possibilities, as unlikely as they may be, that is his prerogative. It is not your prerogative to punish someone for doing this, if that is how they choose to play, because the game is designed to let them make that choice. It is NOT designed to let others dictate how he plays.

[Bishop Steiner]

no, ridiculous is making everyone else wait 10 minutes for your epeen. This is a team game, so yeah, communication should be used. Deal with it.

[Bloodweaver]

ESC -> Quit match.

Calling out teammates' position is against ToS. Hiding is not. You deal with it

Edited by Bloodweaver, 27 February 2014 - 10:43 PM.

[DodgerH2O]

Sug, on 27 February 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

Any player, on either team, that gets assists after they die, do not get credit for them until the match ends.

So yeah, if a player knows he doesn't have any more money coming then he losing nothing by just quitting the match. But if the player you're talking about has given up on victory, knows he won't get any more assists, but still wants credit for the 3 he got after he died, he then benefits by telling the other team where the last member of his team is so the match ends and get his cbills.

Do you have a source for that? I'm not trying to say you're wrong but I feel like I've heard the exact opposite is true.

Edited by DodgerH2O, 27 February 2014 - 11:16 PM.

[Linksdx]

id say it depends on the amount of opposing mechs left if its 2-3 then it might be a valid tactic since when it gets liek that in alot of matches the remaining mechs split up trying to get the last kill themselves but if its mroe than that then id say there eatehr trolling or think they are better then they really are. and then fianlly somethign that most people dont do Ask in Team Chat what thre doing or plan is id they say there waitng to try and pick of the last 1 or 2 when they go past then yea be quiet and wish them luck but if they dont arnser or bullcrap or some other arnser that tell you there trolling or hdieng then first warn them to fight and if they ignore you then give a second warnign in all chat and then finally id say tell the oponent

[Serenade]

Sug, on 27 February 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

What there isn't a point to is hiding in the first place.

To torment the 4 man 360noscopeyololeetartyspampoptarts who clearly had the game in the bag from the load up screen but cant travel faster than 48kph? Idk.. Some people seem to care about their kill/death so they'll hide to preserve it. Others may see no hope of winning as the last man standing and either self destruct, run out of bounds, run around just to troll the enemy for the last moment of their mechs life or simply shut down. All players are given a shut down button, PGI cant do anything if a player decides to use it.. At this point most people take matters into their own hands and give the other team hints at the location.

[Kjudoon]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:

no, ridiculous is making everyone else wait 10 minutes for your epeen. This is a team game, so yeah, communication should be used. Deal with it.

So you're determined to get banned on a team treason charge? Okie doke. You do what you gotta do.

[Kjudoon]

Bloodweaver, on 27 February 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

ESC -> Quit match.

Calling out teammates' position is against ToS. Hiding is not. You deal with it

I won't post it here... but I just keep seeing the Youtube video "Greatest Freak Out Ever" going through my head when I picture some guys unable to handle searching for, or not willing to leave match because someone won't die for their convenience.

[PACoFist]

Kjudoon, on 27 February 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

I am not obligated to kill myself in a foolish act of suicide in any match. if it is 11-0 or even 11-10, nowhere is it written I must go get killed. I am even more encouraged to pee in the cornflakes of those who sit there and gloat, boast or mock the losing side as a last act of defiance. If I had a retreat function where I could exit the battlefield without penalty, I would. If you don't like that option, tough. I play my way, you play yours. You want to give some jerk the easy kill so he can laugh at you... more power to you. I'm not that way.

If you are the last man standing in your team, and don´t want to get killed by the enemy, you can just run "out of bounds". If it makes you feel better you can pretend you did retreat. And there is no penalty to killing yourself.

Edited by PACoFist, 28 February 2014 - 01:44 AM.