223 replies to this topic

[Rebas Kradd]

Mister Blastman, on 26 February 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

So, for Paul and Russ... let me help you.

Stopped reading here.

Mister Blastman, on 26 February 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Hey, smarty-pants, guess what?

I have a Marketing/Sales degree and right out of college I was writing code for a .com in multiple languages, on multiple UNIX/Linux/AIX platforms doing all sorts of engine-level stuff from systems automation, AI, multi-system interaction, database-level stuff and more.

I've written plenty of code.

More and more, I'm just tempted to call BS on this type of stuff. I'd be willing to bet a cold hundred that you've never coded beyond a couple of college classes.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 26 February 2014 - 12:53 PM.

[seymourbalzac]

I couldn't agree more with OP, to all of the people saying they should just fix hit reg instead, maybe you should re-read OP's post and understand it better. Russ has stated the SRM's won't get a hit reg fix until after CW so they won't be getting a hit reg fix for a long time. What OP has posted is a band-aid fix that would hopefully give brawling a chance until they fix hit reg. Is it perfect? No. Is it better then the pile of garbage we have now? Yes. This sit behind a rock and snipe meta is the most boring thing that could possibly have happened to this game, it really isn't fun anymore. I love SRM's and still use them on some of my mechs but there has been so many times where I have clearly smoked an enemy mech and nothing (my ping is usually 13-15 so its not that), because of this I find myself using streaks more and more often now because at least they actually hit.

[Artgathan]

Dymlos2003, on 26 February 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

just make the srms follow your crosshair

But then you can't torso twist - a staple of good brawling.

[East Indy]

Koniving, on 26 February 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

So why not simply make them guided? The guided missiles have no problem hitting targets and registering.

Guided but not locked.

Skipping a lock altogether is interesting.

SRMs in code could be "Streaks" that don't call for the lock animation or condition for firing, home in on the closest LoS target under the reticle when fired, are distributed to 'Mech bones like Streaks, and call for a random number to deal damage per SRM rules (although that might touch the hit-reg nerve a bit).

Maybe kind of goofy, and too much like Streaks lore notwithstanding, but interesting.

[Koniving]

Deathlike, on 26 February 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

The thing about making them "guided" is that there is a legitimate fear they become similar to the Lurmapocalypse or old Streak (CT coring) menace that happened before. There were plenty of nuances of oddities that have been demonstrated by missiles before like, making sharp turns at the last moment... the potential of really nasty behavior is not what we'd need (unless, NARC was given such an ability to a limited degree, not SRMs themselves).

All vids time skipped.
This was the old streak's turning ability.
Old streak combat.
The "overpowered streak cat."

And now modern streaks.
The "balanced streak cat"
The new streak's turning ability.

Our current streaks are overpowered. The streaks back then missed about 75% of the time even if they did go for the CT.

Nothing says they have to be super fast to turn. In fact streaks are NOT meant to be any better at hitting than SRMs, just NOT supposed to fire without a 100% chance to hit.

[Dymlos2003]

Artgathan, on 26 February 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

But then you can't torso twist - a staple of good brawling.

True... maybe a toggle?

[Josef Nader]

IceSerpent, on 26 February 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

This part is a complete load of bull and we both know it. Decreasing the variety on the batlefield never makes a game any better.

This statement really confuses me, and I see it everywhere.

When did this game -ever- have variety? Everyone rushes to whatever the most powerful flavor of the month is and complains that there is no variety.

When I first started playing, all light mechs were unhittable Trollmandos, super fast SLunchback 4Ps, and Gausscats. Everything else was useless. Then they introduced engine caps and killed the Trollmando and the Slunchback, and the reign of the Jenner began. For the longest time, the meta was entirely Gausscats, Jenner D's with streaks, and the odd Atlas to soak hits. It was about this time that SSRMs had their code updated, and the Streakapult rose to power. It never missed CT, and being on the receiving end of the Streakapult was like being inside a crashing airplane. The addition of DHS and Endo/Ferro meant the Atlas could finally make good use of it's firepower, and the D-DC brawler came to power. These were the only viable builds until ECM was introduced. Then the Jenner was completely superseded by the Raven 3L. The Splatcat replaced the Streakcat. Not long after that, gauss explosions were added, and the Gausscats were replaced with KC20s. The game got -extremely- brawl heavy for a while, as SRMs and AC20s dominated the meta. Sniper weapons were universally useless. About this time, we got our first serious pop tart, the Cataphract 3D. This, combined with the heat reduction to the PPC, put sniping back on the map. The pop tart cataphract dominated the game right up until the Highlander dropped, and then the game really got stupid. ECM Ravens, pop tart 3Ds, and pop tart Highlanders completely took over, and nothing you could bring ever stood a chance. SRM nerfs compounded the issue, as the SRMs were completely stupid around this time. The game swung completely around the other way; brawling died and everything was jump snipers. It stayed that way for months, until recently with the gauss nerf, the desyncing of projectile speed on sniper weapons, and the nerfs to jump jets. Now, it's mostly mixed autocannon/PPC boats, with either high mounted arms or jump capability being essential to survival.

So tell me, where in any of that did we ever have -more- variety than we have now? People automatically gravitate to the thing that gives them the easiest win. They always have. The exact thing may change patch to patch, but we have never had a huge mix of mechs on the battlefield. I see more variety now than I have seen in the past, largely because there are more mechs that can do the things that are "good" now than in the past, but there has always been a meta.

[Bagheera]

Godzilla is immune to LBx fire.

Oh, sorry. Wrong thread.

[Mister Blastman]

Rebas Kradd, on 26 February 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

Stopped reading here.



More and more, I'm just tempted to call BS on this type of stuff. I'd be willing to bet a cold hundred that you've never coded beyond a couple of college classes.

Hah. Okay. Call it. You'd be wrong.

Some of us don't need College to teach us deep knowledge and critical thinking. The brain is a wonderful organ that the majority of humans know little about how to tap properly.

I also happen to be an aspiring Science Fiction author who while raising a young daughter after recovering from open-heart surgery, have self-taught myself Quantum/Particle/Astrophysics along with Relativity and String Theory.

Never underestimate your potential. Your mind is only as good as you try and make it. If you have never thought hard enough to make your brain hurt for an entire week, you aren't pushing yourself.

[Mister Blastman]

Dymlos2003, on 26 February 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

Yes it's a situational (Is that a word?) weapon. Just like SRMs but it doesn't suck 66% of the time cause you have other weapons with it. That's why building a balanced build is always great.

People just need to learn how to use it.

Soooooo let's see...

I can build a balanced build that is 50% effective... 100% of the time.

-or-

I can build a meta-build that is... 100% effective, 90% of the time (because PPCs are stinky below 90 meters).

See what I did there?

Balanced build < Meta-build.

That's just how it is right now.

[Mister Blastman]

Dymlos2003, on 26 February 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Who are the lords?

Proof he's in low to mid Elo, at best.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 26 February 2014 - 01:48 PM.

[Josef Nader]

Mister Blastman, on 26 February 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

Hah. Okay. Call it. You'd be wrong.

Some of us don't need College to teach us deep knowledge and critical thinking. The brain is a wonderful organ that the majority of humans know little about how to tap properly.

I also happen to be an aspiring Science Fiction author who while raising a young daughter after recovering from open-heart surgery, have self-taught myself Quantum/Particle/Astrophysics along with Relativity and String Theory.

Never underestimate your potential. Your mind is only as good as you try and make it. If you have never thought hard enough to make your brain hurt for an entire week, you aren't pushing yourself.

If there's one thing that I've learned from college, it's how little I actually know. Funny how that works.

[Deathlike]

Mister Blastman, on 26 February 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Proof he's in low to mid Elo, at best.

Well, there was one of the lords that joined our 12-mans last night. Too bad he had to drop because "he was occupied".

Oh well, every match was ggclose.

[Mister Blastman]

Josef Nader, on 26 February 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

If there's one thing that I've learned from college, it's how little I actually know. Funny how that works.

Thus my passion for the sciences, particularly Physics and Biology. For all the knowledge we have acquired, theories we have crafted and laws we have hammered on the anvil, they still are only a drop of water the great ocean our universe (and universes). There's so much left to be discovered. So many minds to be blown. So much wonder and fascination to discover. It never stops... well, until you are a type 5 Civilization... and then... then you have to watch out because there will always be a type 3 or type 4 waiting to rise up and take it all from you--and maybe using something you haven't figured out yet.

see: Kardashev scale.

[Josef Nader]

Mister Blastman, on 26 February 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Thus my passion for the sciences, particularly Physics and Biology. For all the knowledge we have acquired, theories we have crafted and laws we have hammered on the anvil, they still are only a drop of water the great ocean our universe (and universes). There's so much left to be discovered. So many minds to be blown. So much wonder and fascination to discover. It never stops... well, until you are a type 5 Civilization... and then... then you have to watch out because there will always be a type 3 or type 4 waiting to rise up and take it all from you--and maybe using something you haven't figured out yet.

see: Kardashev scale.

Swing and a miss.

[TehSBGX]

Rouken, on 26 February 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

I'm thinking all they need to do is up the speed of SRMs, We are able to land ballistics with the current HSR. I imagine it works the same for both weapons but ballistics are moving a lot faster. I have no idea what the correct value would be but given the short range of SRMs I dont think doubling their speed would create new issues.

I've been thinking speeding up SRMs might fix hit detection too. The LBX seems pretty similar with how it fires cluster rounds and doesn't have hit reg issues. It might be a good idea to try and mimic how the LBX firing mechanics would work on srms on the test server since they're both 'shotgun' style weapons.

[Mister Blastman]

Josef Nader, on 26 February 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Swing and a miss.

And now you're being pretentious. Stop with the crap man. You're contributing little to this entire discussion.

[Josef Nader]

I've very carefully explained across multiple pages why your suggestions are counterproductive to the game, and all you can come back at me with is how knowledgeable you are about web programming and that degrees don't mean a thing when you can read the wikipedia article on string theory and understand it.

Show me a published paper on astrophysics or a game prototype you programmed up. Until then, stop beating your chest like you know a damn thing about what you're talking about.

Edited by Josef Nader, 26 February 2014 - 02:20 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Josef Nader, on 26 February 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

I've very carefully explained across multiple threads why your suggestions are counterproductive to the game, and all you can come back at me with is how knowledgeable you are about web programming and that degrees don't mean a thing when you can read the wikipedia article on string theory and understand it.

Show me a published paper on astrophysics or a game prototype you programmed up. Until then, stop beating your chest like you know a damn thing about what you're talking about.

I don't program games. I manage tens of millions of dollars and play the stock market for a living. I also write science fiction. When I'm published, maybe you'll read my novels, maybe you won't. Who knows?

I don't have to prove anything to you. Nothing. I owe you nothing. You are dirt to me. Just another bag of air blathering on a thread on the internet. Except in your case, you hold yourself higher than anyone else because you have a degree and work in the game industry.

But guess what? There are people out there smarter than you and you'd never even know it. Good day, sir. Find another thread to waste your time in, please.

[IceSerpent]

Josef Nader, on 26 February 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

This statement really confuses me, and I see it everywhere.

When did this game -ever- have variety? Everyone rushes to whatever the most powerful flavor of the month is and complains that there is no variety.

In CBT when there were multiple FOTM builds.

Quote

When I first started playing, all light mechs were unhittable Trollmandos, super fast SLunchback 4Ps, and Gausscats. Everything else was useless. Then they introduced engine caps and killed the Trollmando and the Slunchback, and the reign of the Jenner began. For the longest time, the meta was entirely Gausscats, Jenner D's with streaks, and the odd Atlas to soak hits.

Yep, that was prior to first gauss nerf (drop in hp). Didn't last very long though.

Quote

It was about this time that SSRMs had their code updated, and the Streakapult rose to power. It never missed CT, and being on the receiving end of the Streakapult was like being inside a crashing airplane.

1. See Kon's post above regarding "never missed CT" part.
2. At the same time SplatCat (SRM32 or SRM36) and BoomCat (2xAC20) "rose to power"
3. Not to mention that not all Jenners used streaks - it was almost an even split between Streak+MLs, SRM+MLs, and 6-ML (on Jenner F).

Quote

The addition of DHS and Endo/Ferro meant the Atlas could finally make good use of it's firepower, and the D-DC brawler came to power. These were the only viable builds until ECM was introduced.

D-DC became the go-to Atlas after introduction of ECM.

Quote

Then the Jenner was completely superseded by the Raven 3L. The Splatcat replaced the Streakcat.

Raven 3L only superseded Streak-carrying Jenners, Jenner F remained in favor. SplatCat was already there, but ECM caused Streak Cat to fall out of grace due to being extremely easy to shutdown completely, so only BoomCats and SplatCats remained.

Quote

Not long after that, gauss explosions were added, and the Gausscats were replaced with KC20s. The game got -extremely- brawl heavy for a while, as SRMs and AC20s dominated the meta.

Gauss explosions were there from the very beginning and game was extremely brawl-heavy due to PPCs suffering from hit reg issues and low projectile speed.

Quote

About this time, we got our first serious pop tart, the Cataphract 3D. This, combined with the heat reduction to the PPC, put sniping back on the map. The pop tart cataphract dominated the game right up until the Highlander dropped, and then the game really got stupid.

There was actually a "golden age" time interval between introduction of 3D + PPC fixes and SRM nerf. We already had BAP countering ECM so Streaks were in use, SRMs and AC20s were still used by brawlers, MLs were used to supplement SRMs, and 3Ds were sniping. It was as close to balanced game as we ever got.

Quote

ECM Ravens, pop tart 3Ds, and pop tart Highlanders completely took over, and nothing you could bring ever stood a chance. SRM nerfs compounded the issue, as the SRMs were completely stupid around this time. The game swung completely around the other way; brawling died and everything was jump snipers. It stayed that way for months, until recently with the gauss nerf, the desyncing of projectile speed on sniper weapons, and the nerfs to jump jets. Now, it's mostly mixed autocannon/PPC boats, with either high mounted arms or jump capability being essential to survival.

Even back during the peak of PPC meta we had gauss+PPC 3D, gauss+PPC HGN, quad PPC Stalker, and 6 LL Stalker in play, which is considerably more variety than current choice between PPC+AC5 HGN and PPC+AC5 VTR.

Quote

So tell me, where in any of that did we ever have -more- variety than we have now? People automatically gravitate to the thing that gives them the easiest win. They always have.

See above. We had much more choices in that old meta than we have now. Interestingly enough, that's what makes the game balanced - when you have to make a non-obvious choice between packing Streaks, SRMs, AC20s, etc. When your only choice is to pack as many PPCs and AC5s as you can...we get what we have now.