86 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Quote

Wanderer... Admitting I'm being lazy, What is the 5th tier?

Check a few of my posts prior. Or my sig.

20-30 tons, then 35-45, 50-60, 65-80, 85-100.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 February 2014 - 03:09 AM, said:

Having 3 of each weight class is a fair mass balance, and good for a majority of PUG non CW players. But what about the Merc Commands in CW? I know Murphy's isn't a huge command, but we have a right to set up our command how we feel is best for success.

Not everyone is here for fair and balanced, Some are here for brutal, barbarian horde style battling. Some don't want DHB to have a chance to wrestle Coventry from our control. How is enforced weight limits fair to these situations? Murphy's is paid to protect Coventry from invaders, not to accept challenges in the spirit of fair play. If DHB wants Coventry, they should have to put up or shut up!

Do you see what I am saying?

The purpose is balance.

They can't balance the game for Chassis variations and mech balance, so the only remedy for it they can make is for the match maker to account for it. or in this case hard limit it.

Defenders should probably receive a better drop deck than 3/3/3/3 considering there are no "defenses" to speak of which would give the defenders the usual advantage. But it is probably a bit ambitious to be concerned with CW at this point. We will likely be lucky to do anything other than have general unit associations by christmas.

Also 3/3/3/3 is a pretty awful drop deck. I don't think I have played a comp match with less than 4 lights in a very very long time. 4/2/2/4 would probably be better for the way the general population plays this game in terms of queue wait times.

Edited by 3rdworld, 28 February 2014 - 06:00 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

4/2/2/4 would probably be better for the way the general population plays this game in terms of queue wait times.

4/0/4/4 would work fine too.

[Ragnar Darkmane]

I guess that we can all agree that the best solution would be 3/3/3/3 with tonnage based matchmaking on top of it.
Equal numbers of all weight classes and the low tonnage models like the Locust would actually have a reason to be played.

[Charons Little Helper]

Khobai, on 28 February 2014 - 02:01 AM, said:

it would be a terrible idea in practice though since mediums are the least played weight class and assaults are one of the most played weight classes. It would just increase queue times even more.

Not for us medium pilots

[DaZur]

In general I'm okay with the 3/3/3/3 solution... Not perfect, not necessarily fair to the middling mech pilots and carries some notable down-sides.

That said, like another poster indicated... "It's a start".

I'm okay with baby steps so long as I feel PGI is watching metrics and is willing to set aside their hubris and make reasoned adjustments as the MM and CW mature.

In the end, I'm please to see "progress" even if it's not perfect.

[wwiiogre]

To address the question of no 4mans, Paul said you could still drop in a premade 4man, just 3 could have the same tonnage class.

To address the CW concerns. Go back and read about merc corps, then reread Paul's post. I am guessing, CW will be run in private matches or even premium private matches. So that depending on how campaign PGI wants to get, there could be tonnage limits for battles in CW or even a match style bidding challenge. Where defender picks tonnage, attacker picks map, defender picks game style, attacker picks equipment limitations (say like no ecm, or no lrm, or no arty, etc).

Remember the Launch Module is actually the first part of setting up CW. I am excited the more I think about this and will probably end up buying Premium time so I can run an actual online Campaign with players interested. Which means I could even run a 3025, 3039 or 3050 timeline campaign. With real players in the roles on both sides. Could setup House vs Mercs, Mercs vs Raiders, etc, etc.

So as a Game Master for the last 30 years, private premium matches sounds like lots of fun. You could even go so far as post on the MWO forum want ads for players and the positions and mechs needed including loadouts of each mech. Then with a little creative license include some story line. Allow players to write up backgrounds for their pilots.

Some of you on here are thinking small about what the Launch Module will allow us to do. I see it as the first step to allowing us to have a campaign mode. And the community to actually have story line and fun with this. It puts us in charge with private matches, not PGI. So that like minded individuals can come together to make something greater out of this game.

Chris

PS

It is also the first step to private leagues and ladders

Edited by wwiiogre, 28 February 2014 - 08:39 AM.

[Charons Little Helper]

wwiiogre, on 28 February 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

So as a Game Master for the last 30 years, private premium matches sounds like lots of fun. You could even go so far as post on the MWO forum want ads for players and the positions and mechs needed including loadouts of each mech. Then with a little creative license include some story line. Allow players to write up backgrounds for their pilots.

I'd be down for that sans loadouts. I run few if any 'meta' builds (mostly mediums for one thing) but one of the things I enjoy most about MWO is the design process for loadouts.

Edit: I'd be okay with tech restrictions (though switching back & forth with upgrades could cost a lot of C-bills) - but I'd still want to be able to tweak my build.

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 28 February 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[Voivode]

Their plan is to match tonnage within a class. For instance, matchmaker will attempt to match a 60 ton Dragon on your team with a Dragon or Quickdraw on the other. If it fails that, it will try to match the Dragon with a player dropping in a 65 ton mech. During low population play times you might end up with Jenner matched up to a Locust, but on average it should keep teams both varied and close in tonnage.

[wwiiogre]

Charon, my vision of a Campaign is starting strictly 3025 tech, but each individual pilots setup would be near identical to starting mechs available at that time. After each battle or round of the campaign depending on salvage as well as time between battles and character backgrounds (depending how much role playing or little role playing is happening) players would be allowed to change or update their mechs.

Upgrades would not be available until the group captured as salvage the part, or bought the part if its available in the area they were working in or available on the blackmarket (think roleplaying backgrounds). I have a robust character creation process in place for my tabletop campaigns that can go from light to indepth ( I would prefer light, in otherwords only things that would be used by the characters and the GM's between matches)

Now I like starting around 3039-3045 because you do have some of the lost tech coming back into the general mech warfare. And it allows player growth over time in a campaign setting. Including if you capture and then rebuild an enemy mech. In other words if a battle is won, and the field not contested salvage based on contract belongs to the winner. Noticed I said based on contract, because most mercs get shit for contracts especially where salvage is concerned, it will be small things that are involved at first.

But, private matches and premium private matches especially will hopefully give US the chance to even have these types of games. And then to string them into campaigns. I do not plan on doing this alone, I know for sure at least two people in my area that are tabletop GM's for battletech that also play MWO that might want to tackle a big campaign like this. We are limited to what PGI gives us in the way of mechs.

But imagine you want to run a Clan campaign and start out with little mechs, with premium private matches you can do everything needed to run a true roleplaying campaign including trials of position and trials of refusal, etc. Real clan, done right.

So I look at the Launch module, if it isn't to costly for premium private matches as a way to really grow this game and community. Like I said, I could run want adds for players with specific mechs as one off opposition for the story group or groups. If done right this can be an ongoing story line and group campaign where GM's can play opfor against other GM's story group. Shared story line and ideas create involvement and ownership which creates interest and more involvement.

I don't claim to be the greatest story teller, my idea of a good GM is to scare my players into thinking they are gonna die, and then with careful manipulation or even without it, the players work together towards a goal. So that the next time we play the first thing I hear them talking about is how they should have died last time and if it hadn't been for x player doing this and y n z player doing that they were dead for sure.

So I look forward to the new launch module and I am waiting to see what the community does with this. We could have 2man solaris tournaments, when clan comes in we could have 8v5 IS vs Clan honor matches, etc. Ladders, Tournaments, who knows. The roleplaying is just one of the things I like, plus the option to play historical era timelines. No ssrm, no er, no gauss, no uac, no ecm, no bap, no coolant flush, no arty, no air, You know back to basics, just shoot the other guy with the weapons at hand.

I may even allow a team to call a withdrawal or tactical retreat. Meaning if they can get mechs to a pull out point the battle is over. I may even have non traditional winning conditions like One teams objectives are not necessarily the other team objectives. One team may need to cross the entire map and gets points for each mech it gets to grid x, while the other team may need to only out damage the other side to win. With premium private matches I could choose what I want to do it and how. While the players are there for the ride and the fun of the unknown, while still getting to shoot each other in stompy robots.

Chris

[Varent]

Khobai, on 28 February 2014 - 02:01 AM, said:

it would be a terrible idea in practice though since mediums are the least played weight class and assaults are one of the most played weight classes. It would just increase queue times even more.

You mean, doing something to encourage people to play a less played mech for shorter que times, as upposed to rewarding players for just bringing a super heavy to a fight. Wow your right, what a travesty. (Sarcasm)

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Personally I think it should be 4L 5M 2H 1A

[Pjwned]

Varent, on 28 February 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

You mean, doing something to encourage people to play a less played mech for shorter que times, as upposed to rewarding players for just bringing a super heavy to a fight. Wow your right, what a travesty. (Sarcasm)

Not having abysmal wait times in a queue shouldn't be a motivation to switch to another mech, that just shows something is wrong with the game (read: balance isssues that should be addressed by fixing the mechs/weapons themselves) when that starts happening and it just makes everybody annoyed. That's also ignoring people that don't enjoy playing smaller mechs and people that are actually a credit to their team besides being a damage sponge.

Edited by Pjwned, 28 February 2014 - 04:01 PM.

[Varent]

See above statement. What a travesty. Im sorry you will be forced to step outside of your comfort level or wait to play. I honestly have no remorse for players that want to have there cake and eat it too.

[WarZ]

Khobai, on 28 February 2014 - 02:01 AM, said:

it would be a terrible idea in practice though since mediums are the least played weight class and assaults are one of the most played weight classes. It would just increase queue times even more.

Incorrect. One of the big reasons mediums are poor mechs in the current meta/game is that there are so many assaults and heavies most of the time. They end up being severely out gunned and armored. And without the speed of the lights they become severely disadvantaged because of this.

However if there are less assaults to deal with suddenly they arent getting over run as easily. They can start holding their own, since less than half the enemy team will outclass them. Versus what can often be most of the enemy team. They will have a decent place again.

And if mediums are a viable fighter again, then more people are willing to play them.

Besides a lot of players are going to have little choice. One way or another someone is going to have to get out of their assaults and play something else if anyone wants a match, lol.

Sure they still have issues but less assaults and heavies being loaded against them will do wonders.

[Varent]

WarZ, on 28 February 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Incorrect. One of the big reasons mediums are poor mechs in the current meta/game is that there are so many assaults and heavies most of the time. They end up being severely out gunned and armored. And without the speed of the lights they become severely disadvantaged because of this.

However if there are less assaults to deal with suddenly they arent getting over run as easily. They can start holding their own, since less than half the enemy team will outclass them. Versus what can often be most of the enemy team. They will have a decent place again.

And if mediums are a viable fighter again, then more people are willing to play them.

Besides a lot of players are going to have little choice. One way or another someone is going to have to get out of their assaults and play something else if anyone wants a match, lol.

Sure they still have issues but less assaults and heavies being loaded against them will do wonders.

This. Well said good sir.

[Daekar]

Varent, on 28 February 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

This. Well said good sir.

I agree. Good sense in that post! Looking forward to the 3-3-3-3 drops. Would be tickled if it were 3-4-3-2, but that would cause small rage explosions all over the forums. :-)

[EvilCow]

This 3-3-3-3 sounds so boring

[Daekar]

EvilCow, on 28 February 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

This 3-3-3-3 sounds so boring

Yes, because 4-0-0-8, 6-0-0-6, 4-0-2-6... those are all exciting...

[Noesis]

2A/?/?/? At least sounds mysterious ...

... and at least it keeps the purpose of recon to best determine enemy composition.