136 replies to this topic

[Eddrick]

meteorol, on 04 March 2014 - 12:24 AM, said:

Man, this somehow reminds me of... PUG dungeons queues always failing because there are not tanks and priests

My thoughts, exactly.

[Jon Gotham]

oldradagast, on 12 April 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Repair and Rearm won't return for more than just forcing people into lighter mechs - it punished individuals for team performance, which is generally a bad way to run a game. Long story short, even if you are an excellent player, if your team has 3 potato players on it and the other team only has 1 such person, you'll probably lose and then be socked with a big repair bill. Nobody wants that, and it takes the fun out of the game - in truth, I'm surprised it has worked in WoT since normally people hate being punished because somebody else's blunder cost the match. Toss on top the ability to lose money per match, losing money when you die from disconnecting, etc. and R&R just doesn't work for the general public. Now, for some sort of "hard-core" mode between 12-man premades, it could be an interesting option, but that's about it, IMHO.

Aye I HATED it in world of tanks, but I don't know what can be done in MWO really.....the heavy and assault players seem to think there is no issue-of course not from their perspective:)
Anyone in a medium or a light however is facing a huge wall of overweight steel and with current lack of role warfare and every game mode turning into team deathmatch....what do they do?
I'm very much in favour of 3/3/3/3 even for a while just to see if it does improve the fairness and balance of matches. If it doesn't they can always put it back the way it was. But if they do that mediums will still be the whippings boys of MWO and that isn't right.

[Randalf Yorgen]

R and R would work if it was under Contract. Meaning someone(Comstar, Outreach, Galetia Hiring Hall) hires you to go to this planet and assault the defenders/repel the invaders. By contract if you lost your repairs (replacements) could be covered and you get some pocket change but little else. If you win you get full R and R plus a hefty bonus in C-bills. This however would work much better with a Guild type system where you could have set teams which this game does not yet have so although valid my point is mostly useless.


Edit, as it's contract you could OPT out of having them cover the R and R in exchange for either more C-bills or something. You are betting that it wont be a pyrrhic victory as the end results could easily leave you all in the negatives.

Edited by Randalf Yorgen, 13 April 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[White Bear 84]

Sephlock, on 01 March 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

In that you will no longer randomly get dropped into games where your entire team consists of light mechs and you SWARM ALL OVER THE ENEMY and pwn them?

Except generally speaking, swarms are not that cute... ...its more like....

Mechwarrior Mousse, on 01 March 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

3 Jenners/Firestarters and 3 Cicadas. There's your 6-pack light swarm right there.

#Adaptation - what this meta is all about lol

Macksheen, on 01 March 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

I'd be happy with a 2/2/2/2 + 4 whatever. That'd be a decent comprimise I think, and allow friends to drop in all-light or all-assualt, etc. lances.

Pretty much sure this is what PGI does not want.

[eleazr]

oldradagast, on 06 April 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

The problem is that the game simply doesn't reward playing lighter mechs (lights and mediums.)

...

4) Oversized mediums: While mediums are not the only weight class with this problem, the sheer number of mediums that are larger than tougher heavies makes them harder to play well since they are bigger targets with less armor... so people just play heavies instead.

bingo! I can't say how tired I am of looking an Atlas in the eye while wearing 1/3 of his armor!

Failing implementation of proper game balance, I would much rather see more flexibility in the edicts from on high.

xengk, on 02 March 2014 - 09:57 PM, said:

Instead of a hard 3/3/3/3 cap, allow for 4/4/4/4 cap with 1 being the minimum for each Class.

This is an excellent idea and simple. My take on it is to do at least 2 mediums and lights and up to 4 heavies and 4 assaults, but no more than 6 heavies and assaults in combination.

2+/2+/(0-4/0-4)<7

This allows people to take a proper Steiner scout lance (or whatever) without cutting into the number of lights and mediums. For even more mediums/lights, the combination cap on the upper classes can be lowered
to 5 or even 4 without taking away the fun of 4-man drops

Edited by eleazr, 14 April 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sephlock, on 01 March 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

In that you will no longer randomly get dropped into games where your entire team consists of light mechs and you SWARM ALL OVER THE ENEMY and pwn them?

I for one am Saddened by 3/3/3/3... and that I could not be part of that joyous puppy frolic!

Ghost Badger, on 10 April 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

If they're going to FORCE a certain number of mech chassis sizes on us...can't they at least steal from canon a little bit?

Ya know...give the Steiner faction drops more assaults...etc?

Maybe that'd at least be interesting...and give people a REASON to choose a faction. Just sayin.'

Granted, then there would be SO MANY screams of unfairness and balance...and some of them might even be valid this time around.
...
...
...
LET'S DO IT.

House Liao lost mostly cause they had a primarily Medium Mechforce.

[Demuder]

meteorol, on 04 March 2014 - 12:24 AM, said:

Man, this somehow reminds me of... PUG dungeons queues always failing because there are not tanks and priests

That's one of the most infuriating facets of 3/3/3/3. They are implementing it as if there is no past experience from other MMOs about the problems a class segregated queue creates.

oldradagast, on 06 April 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

The problem is that the game simply doesn't reward playing lighter mechs (lights and mediums.)

Exactly this. PGI's (band-aid as usual) solution to the undesirability of lighter mechs is to... force them down the players' throat instead of examining why exactly they are undesirable and what can be done about that.

[HANGMAN1962]

well 3/3/3/3 lets free to play players get in on the fiting,as it take a lot of time and effert to get hvy/aslt mechs on f2p.
it should stop over experienced players from loading up on cheese builds and farming new players too.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Wait, so they're actually finally doing this... after I don't know... 2 years of yelling at them that they should?

Well Guess now I have the idea of how long it takes for an idea to get properly implemented in the game with PGI.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

dimstog, on 14 April 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

Exactly this. PGI's (band-aid as usual) solution to the undesirability of lighter mechs is to... force them down the players' throat instead of examining why exactly they are undesirable and what can be done about that.

Actually the main reason for doing this is because a "Lance" Setup was originally ment to contain one of each weight class. As there are 12 mechs in play, that would mean 3 lances, thus the 3/3/3/3 rule falls into place.

This force structure eventually changed in the universe... as commanders learned that sometimes you needed a pure scout lance, or a pure heavy lance, or a mix of 2 mediums and 2 heavy's was more effective... ect.

However, in an online game, where people are going to attempt to game the system, hard limits like this enforce fair play and... frankly, this will make it so you don't get grossly imbalanced matches. It will only better the experience, not worsen it.

If you PUG single, you'll see more diverse mechs on the field. if you drop with 4 friends and you're not using a varied lance structure [1 of each weightclass] You're gaming a broken system and should begin adapting your lance structure to fit the new rules.

Basically cry harder.

[EyeOne]

I don't have a problem with it. As a medium pilot I expect it will simply make my class more competitive. I think 2/4/4/2 would balance a little better though.

Edited by EyeOne, 14 April 2014 - 11:27 AM.

[Eglar]

Sephlock, on 01 March 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

[Randalf Yorgen]

Craig Steele, on 13 April 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Pretty much every post you make fits this definition Randy, nice self awareness.

Craig Steele, on 13 April 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

Awww, the hypoctrite comes to defend his sycophant, thats so nice.

You plays nicely together now.

Bye bye

You know, when you do this and you weren't even a part of the conversation to start with you make it far to easy to just report you. Also why do you lie. you say Bye Bye but you get more attention here then you do in real life so we all know you won't go away like you promised so why lie?

[Demuder]

Jade Kitsune, on 14 April 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

Actually the main reason for doing this is because a "Lance" Setup was originally ment to contain one of each weight class. As there are 12 mechs in play, that would mean 3 lances, thus the 3/3/3/3 rule falls into place.

This force structure eventually changed in the universe... as commanders learned that sometimes you needed a pure scout lance, or a pure heavy lance, or a mix of 2 mediums and 2 heavy's was more effective... ect.

However, in an online game, where people are going to attempt to game the system, hard limits like this enforce fair play and... frankly, this will make it so you don't get grossly imbalanced matches. It will only better the experience, not worsen it.

If you PUG single, you'll see more diverse mechs on the field. if you drop with 4 friends and you're not using a varied lance structure [1 of each weightclass] You're gaming a broken system and should begin adapting your lance structure to fit the new rules.

Basically cry harder.

In all the situations you might want to describe where a lance had one of each class, there were also other considerations, ie the enemy was not always 1km to max 3km away, fielding and maintaining assault mechs was actually expensive when compared to lighter mechs, etc. I could list a thousand reasons light mechs were used in lore and in TT, none of which is relevant to MWO.

But maybe you are right, maybe light and medium mechs are actually more desirable than heavier mechs and players for some twisted sick reason, prefer heavies and assaults.

The players are not gaming any system, the system is faulty to begin with. What's more, the faults you are implying are not being corrected by the 3/3/3/3 queue at all. Sync dropping isn't addressed and personally I don't see any difference in a 4man dropping in 4 assaults or in 3 assaults and 1 heavy.

As for diversity, since last September, I strictly solo drop and rarely have I been in a match with no lights or mediums. Sure, classes were not evened out, but there was always at least two or three of them in every team. Of course, I play in the Europe zone, your mileage may vary.

Apparently, with the advent of 3/3/3/3 you believe that if there's 3 lights and 3 mediums in a team, they won't be insta-pinpoint-alpha cored by the enemy heavies and assaults. Yes, that will certainly make them more desirable for sure.

In fact, my prediction is that with 3/3/3/3 the standard match will be 3/3/0/0 vs 3/3/0/0 because the heavies and assaults will idle out after waiting for hours to get in a game. Maybe that's something to cry harder over.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghost Badger, on 10 April 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

If they're going to FORCE a certain number of mech chassis sizes on us...can't they at least steal from canon a little bit?

Ya know...give the Steiner faction drops more assaults...etc?

Maybe that'd at least be interesting...and give people a REASON to choose a faction. Just sayin.'

Granted, then there would be SO MANY screams of unfairness and balance...and some of them might even be valid this time around.
...
...
...
LET'S DO IT.

Steiner
2/3/3/4
Davion
3/3/4/2
Kurita
2/4/4/2
Liao
3/5/2/2
Marik
3/3/3/3 (what they have the most varied production in the IS)!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 April 2014 - 06:23 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Can't wait for 3/3/3/3 as it could provide much needed balance to the game. It's basically going to determine if I stick with MWO after April or not because the ELO reset has already worn off and I'm stuck back in the boring lands of meta or die. Players like me crave variety not stats.

[Jon Gotham]

dimstog, on 14 April 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

In fact, my prediction is that with 3/3/3/3 the standard match will be 3/3/0/0 vs 3/3/0/0 because the heavies and assaults will idle out after waiting for hours to get in a game. Maybe that's something to cry harder over.

I will but not for the reasons you think......

Edited by kamiko kross, 15 April 2014 - 11:19 AM.

[M0rpHeu5]

This is the second worst game mechanich after the ghost heat.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Eglar, on 14 April 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

my god it's evil personified!

[L A V A]

Wait... does this mean if I want to play a light mech in skirmish mode I won't be the only one there?

How odd...