50 replies to this topic

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Kubernetes, on 14 March 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

How is exploding ammo damage calculated? I thought a ton of AC20 ammo exploded for 20pts, but if every unexpended round counts, that's another story.

It would to the potential damage of the ammo, so 7x20 = 140 for a ton of AC20 ammo. When the section is destroyed it transfers half of the remaining damage to the next section. I'm not sure how a partial ton of ammo would behave.

Edited by Rouken, 14 March 2014 - 04:19 PM.

[TehSBGX]

Yep, this is why I don't even bother using CASE. :/

[MangoBogadog]

This needs dev clarification because Reppu's description in the OP would mean that CASE is completely worthless.

As SUG pointed out Brian Ekman's description contradicts the reply quoted in the OP.

Doing some tests on CASE a while back, it did appear to stop an ammo explosion traveling into the CT from a side torso with CASE installed.

[Sug]

So far I've run 3 games in a stripped down Centurion with nothing but CASE and LRM ammo in the side torsos. No death from ammo explosion yet. Haven't seen any significant damage transfer on side torso destruction.

Edit: Yeah nothing. Gonna remove CASE and see what happens.

Edit: Ok I got nothing. did 3 games with side torsos full of ammo and CASE, 3 games full of ammo no CASE and 3 games with just 1 slot of ammo in each torso no CASE.

Not a single death by ammo explosion. I even got "LRM ammo destroyed" warnings while I still had my side torsos.

And I'm calling BS on this:

Quote

A: When a location, such as the right torso, is destroyed, each ammo bin in that location that had not already been destroyed by crit hits has an individual 10% chance to explode.

6 games with 10 slots of ammo in each side torso, each one having a 10% to explode on torso destruction, and no booms.

Edited by Sug, 14 March 2014 - 07:10 PM.

[Ainthe]

Smurfy has Ammo Explosion values:
Name Ammo/t Expl.
AC/20 AMMO 7 20
AMS AMMO 1,000 0.024
AC/2 AMMO 75 2
AC/5 AMMO 30 5
AC/10 AMMO 15 10
LB 10-X AMMO 15 10
MACHINE GUN AMMO 2,000 0.04
GAUSS AMMO 10 0
ULTRA AC/5 AMMO 30 5
NARC AMMO 12 2
LRM AMMO 180 0.7
STREAK SRM AMMO 100 2.5
LRM AMMO + ARTEMIS IV 180 1.8
SRM AMMO + ARTEMIS IV 100 2.5

*interesting math: 1 ton of LRM ammo explodes for 126 damage vs 1 ton of LRM+AIV explodes for 324?!

I'll ask Reppu regarding Ekman's post but quoting game mechanics in MWO from 2 years ago at this point is comparing apples vs oranges.

I experienced Death - Ammo Explosion in a CN9-A© this week, loadout was Standard Engine, 5 tons of Ammo only in RT with CASE. I thought it was a bug but based on a forums search other players have experienced it too.

Edited by Ainthe, 14 March 2014 - 07:09 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

maybe its time to make case more useful since no one really ever uses it anyhow.

[Sephlock]

Quote

Case In Mwo Does Not Stop Damage Transfer To Ct

Thank you. I had no idea that this was the.... case. .

[FupDup]

Sephlock, on 14 March 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

Thank you. I had no idea that this was the.... case. .

[Sug]

Sephlock, on 14 March 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

Thank you. I had no idea that this was the.... case.

Fixed that for ya.

Ainthe, on 14 March 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

*interesting math: 1 ton of LRM ammo explodes for 126 damage vs 1 ton of LRM+AIV explodes for 324?!

I was using Artemis ammo in my ''tests''. Should have been more than enough to kill me.

[Deathlike]

Kubernetes, on 14 March 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

How is exploding ammo damage calculated? I thought a ton of AC20 ammo exploded for 20pts, but if every unexpended round counts, that's another story.

Visit smurfy's mechlab for the explosion numbers.

Sug, on 14 March 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:

So far I've run 3 games in a stripped down Centurion with nothing but CASE and LRM ammo in the side torsos. No death from ammo explosion yet. Haven't seen any significant damage transfer on side torso destruction.

Edit: Yeah nothing. Gonna remove CASE and see what happens.

Edit: Ok I got nothing. did 3 games with side torsos full of ammo and CASE, 3 games full of ammo no CASE and 3 games with just 1 slot of ammo in each torso no CASE.

Not a single death by ammo explosion. I even got "LRM ammo destroyed" warnings while I still had my side torsos.

And I'm calling BS on this:



6 games with 10 slots of ammo in each side torso, each one having a 10% to explode on torso destruction, and no booms.

I suggest you simply build "MOAR AMMO BOATS OF LOVE" and see what happens.

Weirder stuff happens when you're fighting something like the stock Atlas-RS Champion's Gauss RT to make the mech die by "Ammo Explosion" (it's been a while since I recall killing the trial Atlas-RS Champion).

Edited by Deathlike, 14 March 2014 - 07:24 PM.

[Sug]

Deathlike, on 14 March 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

I suggest you simply build "MOAR AMMO BOATS OF LOVE" and see what happens.

9 games is enough. The odds of dying from an ammo explosion are just too low to make testing worth it. Let's just bug the devs til we get an answer.

Would be nice if any of the Training Ground maps had mechs with CASE.

[Deathlike]

Sug, on 14 March 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

9 games is enough. The odds of dying from an ammo explosion are just too low to make testing worth it. Let's just bug the devs til we get an answer.

Would be nice if any of the Training Ground maps had mechs with CASE.

I wouldn't know.... maybe ask smurfy to show the mechs in the Training Grounds? They are probably in the map data. I'm trying hard to recall stock mechs with CASE though.... and I don't think there are many... (and if there are, some of them use XL...)

[Kubernetes]

Rouken, on 14 March 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

It would to the potential damage of the ammo, so 7x20 = 140 for a ton of AC20 ammo. When the section is destroyed it transfers half of the remaining damage to the next section. I'm not sure how a partial ton of ammo would behave.

That's just nuts. So a full unexpended ton of exploding AC10 ammo should blow up for 150pts? That makes no sense because any of my mediums would die instantly from side torso loss if my leg or arm blew up. Heck, my Griffins would be insta-death if Streak ammo blew up for 250 pts a ton.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Judge Redeemer, on 14 March 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

C.A.S.E doesn't need fix it does its job...
if you want a magic shield go play wow paladin...

Im a chargin' my GAUSS RIFLE!

[MangoBogadog]

Kubernetes, on 15 March 2014 - 04:27 AM, said:

That's just nuts. So a full unexpended ton of exploding AC10 ammo should blow up for 150pts? That makes no sense because any of my mediums would die instantly from side torso loss if my leg or arm blew up. Heck, my Griffins would be insta-death if Streak ammo blew up for 250 pts a ton.

Well, when you do get an ammo explosion it is pretty much insta-death in most, erm... cases

[Caswallon]

Sigh classic example of what happens when you tamper with the cannon rules PGI...

OK my 10c worth how I'd like it to work in MWO...

• Without Case Ammo that explodes does (rounds remaining X damage value) to the location its in and excess spreads as normal. Good by Mr Mech....
  
• With Case ONE round goes off and does damage as if hit by it, the rest blows out the armour in that location reducing that location to 0 armour but saving that location from nuking the Mech.
  
• Case should be usable in any location with 2 or more free crit spaces

My hopes and dreams.. But as it is I do not think Case has any viable function regardless as the game is presently. If you can show me any build that gets a benefit from it worth the .5 tons I'd love to see it! Right now I'd rather have .5 more armour etc...

[Chronojam]

Ainthe, on 14 March 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

*interesting math: 1 ton of LRM ammo explodes for 126 damage vs 1 ton of LRM+AIV explodes for 324?!

This is hilarious if confirmed. I wish we had access to older builds so we could track down when things like this started.

[Deathlike]

Chronojam, on 15 March 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

This is hilarious if confirmed. I wish we had access to older builds so we could track down when things like this started.

I think it's been the case since the lurmaggeddon of 2013... the Jagermech edition. It hasn't changed since AFAIK.

[Sug]

Kubernetes, on 15 March 2014 - 04:27 AM, said:

That's just nuts. So a full unexpended ton of exploding AC10 ammo should blow up for 150pts? That makes no sense because any of my mediums would die instantly from side torso loss if my leg or arm blew up. Heck, my Griffins would be insta-death if Streak ammo blew up for 250 pts a ton.

Well yeah, that's the point.

In the tabletop game components didn't have hitpoints, if you rolled a crit, and the crit hit an ammo slot, the ammo blew, most likely killing the mech. It was a great way to kill a mech.

Then CASE was "invented", which prevented the ammo explosion from destroying anything but the section it occurred in.

Since we can aim in MWO I get that the devs would want to make the chances of an ammo explosion lower cause otherwise we'd have mechs popping left and right, but the low chance to crit internals, plus ammo hitpoints, plus destroyed ammo only having a 10% chance to explode, PLUS lower explosion damage has pretty much completely negated the inherent risk of carrying ammo that was supposed to be a balancing factor for using ballistics over energy weapons.

If they're not going to change ballistics to burst fire weapons then they should at least consider raising the risk of carrying ammo to compensate for their low heat, greater range, and pinpoint damage.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Judge Redeemer, on 14 March 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/CASE

While this makes it invaluable for preventing excessive internal damage, CASE does not actually stop the explosion, it merely contains and redirects the explosive force, so after an explosion units likely will be crippled or nonfunctional, though not destroyed outright.

Umm yea. But that's the source, doesn't mean it works that way in MWO.

Judge Redeemer, on 14 March 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

C.A.S.E doesn't need fix it does its job...
if you want a magic shield go play wow paladin...

Here's a thought, get a clue before being a rude *****. The point of the thread is that it may not be working as described IN GAME and as we all thought it did. You know, the way you it says in the wiki you quoted.