182 replies to this topic

[Ordellus]

Hood, on 19 March 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

I understood why 4 man was put in got 8/12.. But now its really not fun anymore. I have several friends on usually 6-7 and we have to rotate in and out to drop together. It would not be that bad just the 4 man but 50% of the time we are in a group where 1-2 people want to run strait into the enemy and die within the first minute of the game. This usually ends in a rickroll.. give us any number of members in a drop i'm sure there are the same number out there that would make it equal.

Heck I will even take a lance of four vs another lance of four just to have some players that play smart.

PLEASE PGI, I beg you!!! Stop making me drop with stupid people.. Its just not fun.

They don't want you PUG stomping.... get over it

and if you actually think it won't happen, you are either a total moron or lying.... either way

Edited by Ordellus, 19 March 2014 - 10:16 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

is it confirmed only a 12man can enter the lobby system or can you have 3 3mans and 3 pugs in a lobby vs another team of the same or a twelveman? if it's the latter then there's better ideas to help everyone play what they prefer. if it's the former than it makes sense that they don't want to have split queues because the public queue can't aford to lose half it's lone wolfs to filling out odd numbers in lobbies.

[Chemie]

Sandpit, on 19 March 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

keep constructive ideas coming, maybe we'll get some changes made.
(I'd personally recommend going with Road's idea of emailing support and taking to twitter and CIVILLY explaining why the group limits are not a good idea and various ideas of how to implement it)

You misunderstand Russ' answer. He is not saying you can play 2-12 mans in CW. He is just saying that you can buy premium to have your 12-mans but that does not prevent you from also pugging in CW. Or even pre-arranged MERC 12v12 inside CW. However, I agree with OP that if you only want to play 12-mans, PGI asking you to pay premium which will provide no benefit (since no CB are paid) is dumb. Or if you are the other 23-24 without premium, and you only want to play as a team in a team-based game, you will not earn any CB making it impossible to really play the game. They FORCE you to pug to support a grind for CB and then when you earn ebough, escape to the game you wanted to play. You have to play 2-3 pug games for every 12-man you want to play.

[Hood]

Personally I do not believe there will ever be CW, and if there is it will be a very loose interpretation of it.

Try to imagine me the loyal MWO player who has bough everything because he wanted to believe. Try to imagine I am a loyal Steiner player. Now try to imagine CW with me in a CLAN mech fighting a CLAN team for IS space..... and how will this work?? My fellow Steiner wants to drive his Battlemaster and I want to drive my Madcat.. Will this union be told no you cant get married your from different places?? You get my point right???

Will PGI go against the thing that built the game? Yes my friends... they will. And when they do all that will be left is the Halo players. The only way to fix this and it will cost them a little in the short run is to make two queues.. in the long run it will make them more money.

Now IMHO a Clan mech fighting along side and IS mech in CW will be like kissing your sister.. Its just not right but it is a girl..

[Alex Warden]

Mystere, on 19 March 2014 - 09:43 PM, said:

Or is meaningless arena-type combat now the "vision" for MWO and not Community Warfare?

i tend to believe that it is and always was from the beginning ... when they learned that not enough ppl would buy founders just because of that they decided to bait us with all the stuff like CW and such...

now technically all the struggle is our own fault because we wanted a deeper game than a Giant Robot MOBA, and PGI let´s us feel it every day since OBT started ---(remember that lovely sentence "closed beta was for you, now your time is over"?)

[Roadbeer]

Soon, when they realized that everything they've tried to do in creating a balanced match making system doesn't work, because you can't quantify skill in a game where your success is based on 11 other random factors (the rest of your team), They'll do away with Match Making all together.

At this point, they'll even dissolve the solo/4 queue for the private match maker, maybe provide a good lobby tool (however I doubt it) and their transition to an Esport will be complete.

[Joseph Mallan]

I like your Post... As much as I hate the direction it went.

[Roadbeer]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 March 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

I like your Post... As much as I hate the direction it went.

I know, it's depressing.

Last year, creating Solaris 7 was, in their words, low priority, now it's coming at the end of next month.
Support for anything that would make Community Warfare even remotely close to what their "Design Pillar" of it was is being removed.

Remove the ability to make large groups, half-ass the tools necessary to make small groups (bad/buggy social system), act 'surprised' that your player base is mostly solo (when you've done nothing to support anything but a solo population) then double down to create more hoops for organized players to jump through.

Destroy any sense of unity with other players, hold a solo only event for faction bragging rights, then act surprised when the solo Lone Wolf faction represents the highest number of players in your tournament. Use this metric to 'prove' that the majority of your players aren't interested in Community Warfare.

Sorry, is my showing?

To paraphrase the last episode of The Walking Dead...

"Look at the flowers, premades"

Edited by Roadbeer, 20 March 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadbeer, on 20 March 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

Sorry, is my showing?

I opted for the full chrome package when Tin foil failed me!

[Hood]

Roadbeer, on 20 March 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Soon, when they realized that everything they've tried to do in creating a balanced match making system doesn't work, because you can't quantify skill in a game where your success is based on 11 other random factors (the rest of your team), They'll do away with Match Making all together.

At this point, they'll even dissolve the solo/4 queue for the private match maker, maybe provide a good lobby tool (however I doubt it) and their transition to an Esport will be complete.

I totally agree.. How do you tell what the value is of a pilot that pushes threw the lines knowing he is going to die 10 seconds into the push but it also gets the followers to push as well and maybe win a fight? Or how about the light that actually does his real job (Scouting and tag/narc) but very little damage? How about the guy that hangs back waiting for everyone to get beat up and then takes his fresh mech into the battle? The only way is the eye test... you see them I see them.. We know PGI does not.

[Sandpit]

We sell more burgers than hotdogs! 84% of our customers buy burgers! We're cutting hotdogs from the menu.

*meanwhile they fail to understand that selling burgers for $2 and hotdogs for $4 just MIGHT have something to do with why they sold more burgers*

[Roadbeer]

Sandpit, on 20 March 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

We sell more burgers than hotdogs! 84% of our customers buy burgers! We're cutting hotdogs from the menu.

*meanwhile they fail to understand that selling burgers for $2 and hotdogs for $4 just MIGHT have something to do with why they sold more burgers*

A better analogy would be that while burgers and hot dogs are the same price
1. You get a burger the second you order it, but it takes a little longer to order a hot dog
2. Nobody knows how to order the toppings, you have to figure out you can order the toppings on your own
3. Sometimes the guy you order a hot dog from doesn't tell you about all the toppings that are available.
4. You can only order up to 4 toppings or 12 toppings.

And now...

1. You can order any number of toppings you want (up to 12) but eating them provides no value in satisfying hunger
2. Not only do you have to know all the toppings for your hot dog, but you have to know other people who enjoy hot dogs and can only enjoy hot dogs with them if they have the same toppings you do, that is, unless you want to pay extra for the hot dog.

Edited by Roadbeer, 20 March 2014 - 09:04 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 20 March 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

We sell more burgers than hotdogs! 84% of our customers buy burgers! We're cutting hotdogs from the menu.

*meanwhile they fail to understand that selling burgers for $2 and hotdogs for $4 just MIGHT have something to do with why they sold more burgers*

Roadbeer, on 20 March 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

A better analogy would be that while burgers and hot dogs are the same price
1. You get a burger the second you order it, but it takes a little longer to order a hot dog
2. Nobody knows how to order a hot dog, you have to figure out you can order a hot dog on your own
3. Sometimes the guy you order a hot dog from doesn't tell you about all the toppings that are availabe.
4. You can only order up to 4 hot dogs or 12 hot dogs.

And now...

1. You can order any number of hot dogs you want (up to 12) but eating them provides no value in satisfying hunger
2. Not only do you have to know all the toppings for your hot dog, but you have to know other people who enjoy hot dogs and can only enjoy hot dogs with them if they have the same toppings you do, that is, unless you want to pay extra for the hot dog.

damit! I'm hungry now!

Thank goodness I can go to 7/11 and get a cheeseburger dog!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 March 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 March 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

damit! I'm hungry now!

Thank goodness I can go to 7/11 and get a cheeseburger dog!

That's because 7/11 caters to more than one demographic

[Davers]

Mystere, on 19 March 2014 - 09:43 PM, said:

And again you are reading me wrong. I don't have a problem, and obviously neither do you. Unfortunately, based on prior history, much of the existing player base apparently does.

Do you remember why the 4-man limit was imposed in the first place when we still had only 8x8 matches? People, a whole lot of people (or a few very loud ones), endlessly cried to the high heavens until PGI catered to them. I expect more of the same (at the very least) when groups of 5-12 are allowed.

But in the end, I really don't give a flying f**k what limits or balancing algorithms are imposed on the PUG scene as long as CW is kept totally free of them. But, I do mind that PGI is wasting limited and precious time and resources constantly "tweaking" the PUG queue when those very same limited and precious time and resources are better spent on CW.

Or is meaningless arena-type combat now the "vision" for MWO and not Community Warfare?

PGI created a MM that almost exclusively paired premades against PUGs. I don't see why programming a MM for one premade per team of equal size is so hard or unfair.

Chemie, on 20 March 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

You misunderstand Russ' answer. He is not saying you can play 2-12 mans in CW. He is just saying that you can buy premium to have your 12-mans but that does not prevent you from also pugging in CW. Or even pre-arranged MERC 12v12 inside CW. However, I agree with OP that if you only want to play 12-mans, PGI asking you to pay premium which will provide no benefit (since no CB are paid) is dumb. Or if you are the other 23-24 without premium, and you only want to play as a team in a team-based game, you will not earn any CB making it impossible to really play the game. They FORCE you to pug to support a grind for CB and then when you earn ebough, escape to the game you wanted to play. You have to play 2-3 pug games for every 12-man you want to play.

Thats how I read it too.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 20 March 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

That's because 7/11 caters to more than one demographic

i thought they caters to the 16-24 year old crowd?

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 March 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

i thought they caters to the 16-24 year old crowd?

Stoners

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 20 March 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

Stoners

Same thing for the most part!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 March 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 March 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Same thing for the most part!

I bet you can walk into the door and buy stuff in groups larger than 4 as well

[Mystere]

Davers, on 20 March 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

PGI created a MM that almost exclusively paired premades against PUGs. I don't see why programming a MM for one premade per team of equal size is so hard or unfair.


Thats how I read it too.

I doubt that is indeed the case and therefore classify it as tinfoil hat territory.

What I do think is happening is that a whole lot of players automatically blame anything and everything -- except themselves -- when they get stomped. They don't want to admit that they probably suck at the game and instead blame premades, poptarts, heavies/assaults, etc., etc. etc.

In other words, they blame the Bogeyman.