213 replies to this topic

[Xander Pappyson]

DocBach, on 29 December 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

Actually, ECM implementation how it is has limited quite a bit of role warfare, and the fact that it and TAG are the only viable pieces of equipment for information warfare makes that pillar of this game incredibly shallow as well.

I am curious. Please expound on what role warefare there was pre-ECM, and how it has shallow'ed since its inclusion. ECM is a role itself. It is why the RAVEN was constructed. Much like the Hunchback was a medium mech build around an AC20, The Raven was built for electronic warfare. Why limit that "role" to just Ravens though, and hence more mech can use it. In my humble opinion the devs are sticking close to canon as best they can in a FPS simulator.

I have stated twice already in the forum, it does need a little nerfing, however it was intended as a "Game Changer". Game Changer. Would this even be a topic if it was something available during the first days of closed beta? For some "yes" for me no. Again this is my opinion. So if you disagree that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion as well. C'est la vie.

I am however, in all honesty, curious how (in your opinion) the roles have become more shallow.

[DocBach]

The Raven wasn't just designed around ECM, it was designed around electronic warfare - tell me, why do the majority of Ravens you see in this game stripped of all EW equipment other than the ECM? ECM in this game has removed a couple of roles from role warfare, first and most apparent is the lack of any sort of indirect fire from serious competitive play. Thanks to PGI's implementation to use ECM as a way to nerf LRM's without actually balancing them. Second, it's helped eliminate the role of spotter for indirect fire, as PGI's next knee-jerk fix was to increase the range of TAG so missile boats could spot for themselves.

There are several other components to information warfare that have been implemented in this game; Narc and Beagle, for instance. Unlike ECM, in which its primary use from the boardgame was included as well as expanded upon with non-canon additions such as the stealth field which blocks an ECM force completely and defeating missile locks, the other components have had crucial advantages they could bring to the battlefield completely ignored, and failed to be included into the game.

Read the thread here:
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

...Then tell me if you believe implementing electronic warfare how 25 years of rules shaping it where each piece has strengths and weaknesses that play against each other would make for a more in depth information game than what we currently have.

Edited by DocBach, 30 December 2012 - 12:33 AM.

[Daggett]

Xander Pappyson, on 29 December 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Wow. Did you guys go on strike when the Gauss cat showed up, and when streaks were all the rage. Were you some of the guy that got collisions turned off. (That was a weak move by the way), or insisted on 4 man max matchmaking? ECM is a challenge I agree but quitting because you can't play with it, really? What's that called... weak sauce. So if you guys are on strike because of ECM so be it. Instead of QQ'ing how about suggesting what a "1.5 ton" piece of equipment should do in your humble opinion. If you have already, good, but then why bring up this QQ post. I mean honestly how did it affect your game play. Are you both LRM boat drivers, or where you both streak Cat extraordinaire. My point is that some near OP builds took a hit with ECM and that was a good thing. Most everyone else has adapted quite nicely. As I stated earlier TAG has made many an ECM bubba an unhappy camper. ECM itself has really brought back some of the role specifics to the game dynamics. That is just my opinion and I am entitled to mine as you are to yours. Good Day Sirs.

Ahem, you are making a lot of assumptions here. For a fruitful discussion i prefer facts.

First, im on no 'strike'. Like you i adapted to ECM and will still play the game.
Heck, im even using it in my lights so i know both sides.
But there are still lots of situations in games where the brokeness of ECM can be observed.

I already made a post here, feel free to read it:
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

It is not the streak/lrm nerf that makes ECM OP (in fact this is quite nice), its the included team-stealth which is way more powerful on it's own.
Tag does not help a bit here, because you still can't see your buddys on map and are able to only tag one of the bunch.
And im sure you will not pack Tag in every mech you run.

The day will come when an ECM-stealthed team will pop-up right behind your team and wreak havoc because no one can warn the rest by simply targeting them. You won't even see if your team realizes the ambush and comes for your help, because ECM blocks communications and makes you feel very lonely.

Been there and done that. Thats way too much additional power for ECM.

When you follow the discussions in the forum you should see that this is the real reason why ECM is OP, not the well working streak/lrm nerf which forces players to play smarter and build more diversified builds with backup weapons.


BTW, turning off collisions was a smart move because the implementation sucked. It triggered way too often resulting in falling mechs every few seconds while in an intense brawl. The external camera view was sloppy at it's best and weight and speed of mechs were not correctly taken into account. Especially for new players this was very frustating.
I'd love to see that feature returning, but only when implemented properly.

Edited by Daggett, 30 December 2012 - 07:07 AM.

[ltwally]

I PUG'd ~6 games last evening. My hunchbacks -- which are direct-fire weaponry only -- still need more XP, and I wanted to see if either ECM use had died down or I was better able to stomach it. Who knows, perhaps I'd have a change of heart.

In every game ECM was present. Out of 44 possible mech variants, it was not missing from even one single game. Far from it, only once was there as few as 2 ECM mechs, most of the time it was 4+. And its presence was indeed a game changer -- those with ECM had clear advantages. In one of those matches, I found myself on a team with ECM while our opponents had none. Another match was reversed. In both cases, the team without ECM was treated so harshly, a police special victims unit could have been called out.

Even while playing in direct-fire only mechs, I found myself more than once having no clue who was friend or foe, due to ECM killing sensors/comms. Equally frustrating was the game where 3 of my teammates chimmed in at the start, saying they were LRM mechs looking for spotters, and watching as they were completely useless in game.

Not if ECM weighed 15 tonnes would it be balanced. But only 1.5 tonnes?

Decisions like this wreck games, and push players elsewhere.

I'm off to sign up for hawken and see what it's like. I'll keep an eye on MW:O, but I don't plan on playing here while the system is bent into its current pretzel shaped horror.

[blubblubblub]

I gotta ask. How did you mess up Mechwarrior so much? About the only thing you got right was:nice graphics. Now how about your math? Why are lights the main battle force? Can you add or subtract? You guys made a really crappy game. Seriously, and you charge a lot of money for the stupidest things.

PRO-tip: Lights are not the main battle force. When you hit a light, they melt like cheese on a open fire. You guys are horrible with games. Between your math and crap match selection - you got a dead game here. You guys made the worst Mechwarrior of the entire series. Good job, you really pissed all over a loved name.

Just look at your forums, it's full of tips you could follow. Do you?? No, you just run on your merry way, making a stupid CoD like mech game. I gave this game a month, now it will stop wasting HDD space.

See you later, in the failed games section.

PS: You do have a hacker problem. To proud to admit it, but you do. You and your fan boys (probably hackers) are the only ones who don't notice it. One shot kills with medium lasers, Jens that can take more hits than an Atlas. Ya, your servers are full of exploiters and flat out hackers. Get a clue, all you are doing so far is: ripping people off by charging insane prices, on items in a un-finnished game.

Fail

Edited by blubblubblub, 15 March 2013 - 05:11 PM.

[rgreat]

blubblubblub, on 15 March 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

Fail

That pretty much define you.

From your post it is quite clear: you just can't shoot, and fail to learn.

[Ghost Inc]

blubblubblub, on 15 March 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

Blablabla...

"Member Since Yesterday, 01:44 AM"

Nuff said.

[PaintedWolf]

Size and Mass are two different things!!!!!!!!

[0X2A]

blubblubblub, on 15 March 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

So pro I uninstalled the game!

Necropost much?
Please post videos of those alleged "hackers", the Devs will probably hotfix it as that would be a major issue serverside.

20 USD says this kid tried to Rambo every fight and failed. Happy the learning curve is as high as it is, otherwise we'd attract more 10 year old twats like this.

[SgtMagor]

flame Troll!!!

[Koe]

My goodness... do people really react this harshly? Somethings might be out of whack... but it's a BETA. It might be an open beta, but at it's core, it's still a BETA.

There will be inherent flaws until they get to the final build.

Anways, I have a question to ask - I loved playing through the campaigns in MW3/MW4. I was wondering if some sort of system would be implemented to allow you to play on your own computer against AI opponents? Even if these missions weren't voiced, it would be a real game-changer for MWO.
Maybe it could be an episodic deal, like with Halo 4. A new batch of missions released per week, and each plays off the last.

At any rate, thanks for the awesome job you guys are doing with this game... even if ECM brings out everyone's inner troll.

-Koe

[IG 88]

Koe, on 16 March 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

My goodness... do people really react this harshly? Somethings might be out of whack... but it's a BETA. It might be an open beta, but at it's core, it's still a BETA.

There will be inherent flaws until they get to the final build.

Anways, I have a question to ask - I loved playing through the campaigns in MW3/MW4. I was wondering if some sort of system would be implemented to allow you to play on your own computer against AI opponents? Even if these missions weren't voiced, it would be a real game-changer for MWO.
Maybe it could be an episodic deal, like with Halo 4. A new batch of missions released per week, and each plays off the last.

At any rate, thanks for the awesome job you guys are doing with this game... even if ECM brings out everyone's inner troll.

-Koe

no plans for that , mw:o is pvp focused - see other Q&A there 34 of them

[PoLaR]

Actually I fought against that blubblubub guy yesterday lol

It made me think of a bong.

[utzelbrutz]

@blubwhatever

What the hell is wrong with you? Bored? Or just too stupid to play?
And btw trolling isn't fun anymore. Didn't get the memo? It's Harlem Shake now, dude!!!