203 replies to this topic

[Mawai]

Mycrus, on 21 March 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

i thought they were uber fans that quit their day jobs so they can do this shit 24/7 for free...

Hmmm ... if they did that then I can't see the video taking more than a day to come out (shoot, edit, release)... can you?

A delay of a week or more, in my opinion, can only be the result of needing to consult with other people ... nothing else takes so much time

For comparison ... what was the delay on video releases by NGNG when they first started?

Edited by Mawai, 21 March 2014 - 07:22 AM.

[Deathlike]

Isn't the ultimate theme around here is "just do the right thing Russ"?

At this point, deadlines are meaningless if there's no polish to the implementation (UI 2.0, cockpit glass to name a few). It doesn't really matter if CW "comes on time"... if it's ultimately a variation of the "cheaply produced mega-scoreboard" or just even a "variation of the MM", then it's just a non-starter on keeping people interested.

Mind you, I don't think we have to get "everything" people want done, but there's a freaking buglist of hell this game has, and even just "fixing" a crapton of bugs (like the stored XP for mechs not in the inventory) is significant enough. There's just so many things that we have now (UI 2.0 being one of them) that could be better AND that the bar is so low, just "improving" on things we use RIGHT NOW would go a long way.

Just comparing "basic functionality" that other games up, MWO is woefully deficient in the tools that communities have required/demanded/requested since forever, and MWO is completely lacking in it. For something as simple as a global lobby, this is not asking for "too much". Heck, the only "lobbies" we are promised are those created by teams for private matches... hardly anything that resembles what people have been asking for.

Right now, I STILL HAVE TO OPEN AND CLOSE THE SOCIAL BUTTON TO REFRESH MY FRIENDS LIST. That is close to unacceptable where basic chat software has functioned better than this.

So, to recap... the things that are relatively meaningless (like Achievements) get focused on, whereas the game's functionality, community tools, and basic communication is far below the standards than other F2P games that PGI would be compared to. Once people accept "lower standards", we will never get the game they are expecting... it's "just another game".

Edited by Deathlike, 21 March 2014 - 07:20 AM.

[Amsro]

A. Community Warfare
or
B. Collisions, other parts of the game polished up first, knock downs, SRM fixes, UI 2.0/mechlab improvements.

Hmm.. Both things are delayed way beyond understandable timelines, my only conclusion is they haven't been working on either.

I'll go with;

C. Hire another team (3?) to do some work and get your business organized and optimized.

This is borderline Lunacy that you would even ask this kind of question. What do you guys work on besides Hero Mechs and minor patch tweaks? Those can't possibly take up all your time.

Edited by Amsro, 21 March 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[Mycrus]

Mawai, on 21 March 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

Hmmm ... if they did that then I can't see the video taking more than a day to come out (shoot, edit, release)... can you?

A delay of a week or more, in my opinion, can only be the result of needing to consult with other people ... nothing else takes so much time

For comparison ... what was the delay on video releases by NGNG when they first started?

used to be a few days delay from airing... when they didn't need "approval"...

[WarHippy]

Peiper, on 20 March 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

34:00 Sean says more immersion, like ejection seat animation. Russ says he wants to see steam in the cockpit and shattered windshields.

What is with the obsession with windshields, and messing with visuals?

Peiper, on 20 March 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

36:10 Russ walked by an engineer's workstation and saw a mech crushing trees. This is a first step, not mech collision yet, but a step toward.

Ok, so they are working on collisions but then ask the question below? Seems they already have made their decision on what is important.

Peiper, on 20 March 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

37:00 Russ is asking himself what people really want more after launch module:
A. Community Warfare
or
B. Collisions, other parts of the game polished up first, knock downs, SRM fixes, UI 2.0/mechlab improvements.

This really bothers me. Our choices are CW that we have been waiting for, or fixes to things like the new UI and mech lab that many feel is near unusable as it is? And wait, SRM fixes? I thought Paul said all was well in world as far weapon balance goes with the exception being ACs perhaps needing a slight adjustment. I have a bad feeling about this and I can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is beyond seeing the writing on the wall that either CW is about to be heavily delayed(again), or barely functional and or missing features are going to be left ignored for the foreseeable future.

[Igorius]

Thanks for the transcription. I'd be more upset if I wasn't already so resigned to the fact that this whole thing is never going to be even a fraction of what was promised at the beginning. For myself and a lot of people like me, we're way past the point of no return. It's to the point where I can't even jump on and successfully play with the handful of friends I still have left who play this thing. Non posso sono felici su questi, ma non triste. Sono solo deluso.

[BLOOD WOLF]

wanderer, on 21 March 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

Thanks for confirming that Clan 'Mechs are to be nerfed into the ground and that "Clans" are really "Just another tag" rather than having any distinction from the rest.

Well the fun while be changing configs and Clan weapons weigh less take up less crits and the like. I don't like the nerf either but i don't want a unfair fight, i like to earn my kills

[BLOOD WOLF]

WarHippy, on 21 March 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

What is with the obsession with windshields, and messing with visuals?
Ok, so they are working on collisions but then ask the question below? Seems they already have made their decision on what is important.
This really bothers me. Our choices are CW that we have been waiting for, or fixes to things like the new UI and mech lab that many feel is near unusable as it is? And wait, SRM fixes? I thought Paul said all was well in world as far weapon balance goes with the exception being ACs perhaps needing a slight adjustment. I have a bad feeling about this and I can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is beyond seeing the writing on the wall that either CW is about to be heavily delayed(again), or barely functional and or missing features are going to be left ignored for the foreseeable future.

this has a lot to do with development deadlines, i guess they envy game modders as they can work unlimited. I have to strongly agree that CW will be buggy but that is why they made the suggestion in the first place to ask for more dev time if the community so wishes but as i said i rather have a buggy CW that can be fixed rather than no CW at all.

[AgroAlba]

I would vastly vastly prefer they spend the 2-3 months to polish up the game further.

CW will be fun, I'm sure. But I'd rather have CW with a finely polished undercarriage, rather than a dinged and slightly rusty one.

[BLOOD WOLF]

AgroAntirrhopus, on 21 March 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

I would vastly vastly prefer they spend the 2-3 months to polish up the game further.

CW will be fun, I'm sure. But I'd rather have CW with a finely polished undercarriage, rather than a dinged and slightly rusty one.

yep, i like that they were dedicated to getting things out on time this year but the attitude of give now fix later isn't a good way to go.

[Sandpit]

Peiper, on 20 March 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

22:30In FACTION play, Piranha will create the rules. That's where you're faction will mean something. Clanners will have to be clanners, and use clan mechs and IS will use IS mechs and “get involved in those battles and situations of rules and roleplay.” [And us mercs? Black Market? Omnimech factories on Outreach? Come on, spill it, Russ! -Peiper]

23:20 Look at future matchmaking in 3 balloons. One is pug play (what we have now). One is private matches. One is faction warfare.

27:00 If clan mechs prove to be better than inner sphere mechs after all, there is an ability with their matchmaker to treat clan mechs as 5 tons heavier, as an example, so matchmaker will try to pad the IS tonnage to fit with the number of clan mechs opposing. .

Good luck with that. At least that explains where community warfare oops faction warfare is heading. At least I can now spend my money elsewhere and not feel I might be missing out on something

Explain to me how the new launch module that PGI is touting and has been explaining will "fix" things applies to the second part of the above quote.
PGI, "we aren't going to be able to match teams by tonnage"
"We can adjust tonnage of clan mechs to "even" them out if they're too op"


I just........... I have no words........... a person cannot be that oblivious....

You new launch module can't match by tonnage so it does it by weight class instead but you're talking about tonnage bumps to "balance" clan mechs???? Wow..........

Igorius, on 21 March 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

Thanks for the transcription. I'd be more upset if I wasn't already so resigned to the fact that this whole thing is never going to be even a fraction of what was promised at the beginning. For myself and a lot of people like me, we're way past the point of no return. It's to the point where I can't even jump on and successfully play with the handful of friends I still have left who play this thing. Non posso sono felici su questi, ma non triste. Sono solo deluso.

Exactly, I've given up on that. It's free to play so hey, I'll still drop but Masakari pack is no longer mine, I know a certain space game that got that money though...

I'm glad I didn't go any further with my wallet though

[BLOOD WOLF]

the match maker will try to match the weight class as evenly as possible, if there is a 80 ton assault on one side they MM will try to fill a 80 ton on the other side. Same for clans except the MM will treat each clan mech 10 tons heavier

[Suko]

Peiper, on 20 March 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

37:00 Russ is asking himself what people really want more after launch module:
A. Community Warfare
or
B. Collisions, other parts of the game polished up first, knock downs, SRM fixes, UI 2.0/mechlab improvements.

COMMUNITY WARFARE





I've been waiting 2 years for this sh*t and it can't come soon enough. Dragon Bowling 2.0 can wait.

[Sandpit]

BLOOD WOLF, on 21 March 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

the match maker will try to match the weight class as evenly as possible, if there is a 80 ton assault on one side they MM will try to fill a 80 ton on the other side. Same for clans except the MM will treat each clan mech 10 tons heavier

Quote

Our initial plan was to implement a fairly rigid tonnage limit into team building. While this did solve the issue of a specific weight class outnumbering the other weight classes drastically, there were some key edge cases that came to light while we went through the design.

Issue 1:
The ability to create lop sided builds still existed. If a team wanted to, they could create a team of 6 Assaults and 6 Lights and still fall within the tonnage limits. This is not the type of gameplay we envisioned when looking at the restrictions.



Issue 3:
Players trying to min/max the system would drive a meta that once again does not fall into the vision of our player experience. Min/max will happen but we can control it to a certain extent.


Instead of restricting team builds by tonnage and causing these weird edge cases, we decided to implement a team building limitation based on Weight Class. This means for each ‘Mech of a certain Weight Class, there is one on the opposing team. On top of that, we will enforce a 3/3/3/3 team build based on Weight Class as well

This helps keep our vision point of a lance being created using a 1/1/1/1 lance build.


With this solution, players are able to launch in any ‘Mech they own without having to worry about a tonnage limit restricting their ability to do so.

so again I say, in one breath it's "Tonnage won't work for OUR vision" and in the next it's "We'll balance Clans be tonnage"

Someone explain to me how that makes sense?

Also, the more I think about it? I finally understand.

Quote

This helps keep our vision point of a lance being created using a 1/1/1/1 lance build.

Quote

does not fall into the vision of our player experience.

I've been very critical of PGI about this in the past. This isn't "THEIR" game. It's a product for public consumption. The more I read and the more I listen it's quite clear they do not, will not, and possibly can not understand that. "Their" vision is worthless.

Now before you say I'm bashing PGI here, I'm not. Their vision is worthless because THEY aren't the ones buying the game. They can't seem ot understand that though.

I have been a professional wrestler for over 10 years. I've worked crowds of well over 5000. Want to know one of the first things I learned? My opinion on a match was worthless when it came to my "vision" or opinion of how "good" a match was.
Want to know why? I'm not the one buying a ticket to be entertained. It doesn't matter what MY opinion of the match was. The only opinions that counted were the ones made by paying customers.

Good luck getting PGI to understand that though.

[Peiper]

BLOOD WOLF, on 21 March 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

the match maker will try to match the weight class as evenly as possible, if there is a 80 ton assault on one side they MM will try to fill a 80 ton on the other side. Same for clans except the MM will treat each clan mech 10 tons heavier

Source? Russ said in this interview that they COULD make clan mechs 'count as 5 tons heavier' than inner sphere mechs IF it proved necesssary. Twice now I've seen people say 10 tons difference in this thread, and I've not heard that there are plans to make the tonnages different at all UNLESS clan tech proves to be more powerful.

[Wintersdark]

Peiper, on 21 March 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

Source? Russ said in this interview that they COULD make clan mechs 'count as 5 tons heavier' than inner sphere mechs IF it proved necesssary. Twice now I've seen people say 10 tons difference in this thread, and I've not heard that there are plans to make the tonnages different at all UNLESS clan tech proves to be more powerful.

I listened to it again, and yeah, the plan is clear. The current 3/3/3/3 plan has tonnage matching as a "stretch goal", with up to a 5 ton shift if necessary to get the match rolling.

The Clan Mechs are being initially balanced with the goal of 1:1 parity, and the option to have them "counts as 5 tons heavier". Presumably they could go further, but no PGI staff mentions 10 tons specifically.

Of course, the figure is essentially irrelevant until we (and they, for that matter) see how balance works out.

[Deathlike]

Sandpit, on 21 March 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

so again I say, in one breath it's "Tonnage won't work for OUR vision" and in the next it's "We'll balance Clans be tonnage"

Someone explain to me how that makes sense?

Also, the more I think about it? I finally understand.

Your vision is irrelevant. It's better to be blind if you wish to ignore what they say at this point.

Quote

I've been very critical of PGI about this in the past. This isn't "THEIR" game. It's a product for public consumption. The more I read and the more I listen it's quite clear they do not, will not, and possibly can not understand that. "Their" vision is worthless.

Now before you say I'm bashing PGI here, I'm not. Their vision is worthless because THEY aren't the ones buying the game. They can't seem ot understand that though.

There's a vision, and there's a reality. Right now, vision is nowhere near reality. So, how about joining the island!

Quote

I have been a professional wrestler for over 10 years. I've worked crowds of well over 5000. Want to know one of the first things I learned? My opinion on a match was worthless when it came to my "vision" or opinion of how "good" a match was.
Want to know why? I'm not the one buying a ticket to be entertained. It doesn't matter what MY opinion of the match was. The only opinions that counted were the ones made by paying customers.

Good luck getting PGI to understand that though.

Say what, you're a wrestler?

[Wintersdark]

To be fair, their objection to pure tonnage limits instead of class limits in our matches was to prevent matches such as 6 assaults/6 lights; they wanted (and I'm not debating the merits of this) to go with 3/3/3/3 to ensure a good spread of weight classes, as well as tonnage.

This let's them reap the benefits of tonnage matching, and class matching. So, ideally, you're not gimping your team (as much) by say piloting a locust, or a Quickdraw.

[Sandpit]

Wintersdark, on 21 March 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

This let's them reap the benefits of tonnage matching, and class matching. So, ideally, you're not gimping your team (as much) by say piloting a locust, or a Quickdraw.

....
You can't make a balancing change based on "our vision is to promote more mech variety" and then talk about "gimping your team by taking a locust".....

[Deathlike]

Sandpit, on 21 March 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

....
You can't make a balancing change based on "our vision is to promote more mech variety" and then talk about "gimping your team by taking a locust".....

Spider-5V said:

What about meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?