190 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Almighty Cico, on 22 March 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

If PGI read this is for them:

Pull back LRM to 125 speed, NARC will still do job for LRM boats and UAV ofc
Buff srm speed( and I mean buff it hard like from speed 300 to 450-500) and fix HSR on them

If you fo that, it will be gamechanger, there will still be poptarts, but when you get into 270 they will take haaard damage from brand new working srms...

I saw my first UAV today.

I've been playing since closed beta.

I've been seeing NARC about one every 20 or so games.

I've seen ECM in every single one. Somehow, I lack faith in having to depend on others to counter ECM, which is why I pack TAG and pray.

[Rex Budman]

Dazzer, on 22 March 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

Ok I know I will get spammed with L2P etc or totally ignored but what the hell

Yes its yet another semi rant about LRMs and its a explanation of why I an taking a break from this game for a while.

Now I am not the best mechwarrior far from it. But the fact that I have a nearly finish mech pit compete with working switch panels I hope shows my level of commitment to this game.

Today I spend several hours trying to adapted to the LRM heavy nightmare we are in now. I bought a Ciada CDA-3M and tooled it out with ECM and AMS and all the bells and whistles then armed it with 2 ER large laz to snipe and Pot shot with.

I then hit the servers tell all in each game ¨ ECM and AMS here group up on my if they start the rain´

I dutifully stuck with the assaults and covered the team as best I could. I believe it made a real difference as we won just about every game that the teams did group up with me or any other ECM mech we had (not many as it turns out)


So why am I unhappy ? because this is not mechwarrior ! It´s more like a game of Sniper elite with every one hiding behind a hill taking pot shots and scarpering from cover to cover. Some times a brave few will try to close the ranged and normally get gunned down for they trouble.

Mech warrior for me is Mech`s shooting a long rang while they close the distance till the meet and stomp around each other in a brawl as part of the chaos that is the battle around them.

When you have assault Mech´s hiding something is badly wrong.

While I did adapted If find I don't enjoy it. I am almost being forced to play a Mech I do not enjoy , in a play style I do not enjoy while all the while what sound like 12 year old LRM ´warriors´ lock and spam and cover the coms with ´L2P´and ´Ï am a god !´(really did hear that one, OK it did make me LOL)

Still all in all when you finish a match and almost groan at the thought of starting a new match its time to find a new game for a while. After all its supposed to be fun for every one not just the LRM and sniper crowd with the rest of us the fish in they bucket.

So I am logging off for a couple of months, maybe finish my Mech Pit and hope that things improve.

thank you to all the players I have had fun with since BETA.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

This is what I keep telling people, but they refuse to listen. They rendered a large portion of offered classes useless. Pure and simple.

[No Guts No Glory]

Then where were your posts whining about the AC/PPC sniper fests before the patch?

Oh that's right, that was your meta.

Ironically, your trying to revert a change that offers usefullness to more classes.

If AC/PPC fest didn't kill your idea of what Mechwarrior was, LRMs on par with other weapons shouldn't either.

[Ace Selin]

Ive only ever played one ECM mech (Raven), do play mechs with AMS (especially lights) and still get killed by LRM rain. 90% of the time, ive never played the meta, almost always had out of the box builds, one im very fond of and has been copied and played by a number of others since. These days i mostly play lights / mediums & they go down to LRM rain shockingly fast. Sure I could hide and take pot shots with my medium, small lasers (err they wont work, change mech loadout to ERLL, AC2), but hiding for a large part of the game is fricking boring, as this game has become. Adapting is easy, but i dont want to paly a game that plays as this currently broken one does. Ive always enjoyed the in your face action, never had a problem dying, always did some damage though, got a laugh. Dont seem to enjoy the current gameplay though.

Flanking people say is the workaround, ive done it often in games prior, but now its mostly a death sentence, unless half the team does it (even then no guarantees), you're dead, not by the LRM boat you're attacking, but to one, two, three or four of his friends. So no flanking doesn't really work either.

Played River City assault, and everyone stayed with their turrets throwing LRMs at each other, the few who tried to attack died to LRM rain trying to cross to the other side, once 3 died, no one bothered to try to cross anymore. We won, as we had killed 2 of them and they killed one of our mechs after 15 min ended. Seriously that's not the MechWarrior game im wanting to play.

Its worst for PUGS, I circled round enemy with one other light and drew away 5 of the other sides team, told our side to attack we had numbers, reply was, not going into that LRM spam. Once us 2 lights died, our team was slaughtered. People are hiding in this current version of the game, not playing as they were once, pity.

Edited by Ace Selin, 22 March 2014 - 10:54 PM.

[Kjudoon]

wanderer, on 22 March 2014 - 10:21 PM, said:

I saw my first UAV today.

I've been playing since closed beta.

I've been seeing NARC about one every 20 or so games.

I've seen ECM in every single one. Somehow, I lack faith in having to depend on others to counter ECM, which is why I pack TAG and pray.

Cool! A few weeks ago, I shot down my first UAV. That was funny.

[Commander Binz]

T Magnum, on 22 March 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

There's nothing to adept to when in every game there are a minimum of 8 assaults with at least 3 d-dc Atlas' and missle boats(my experience). All my builds I have been successful with prior the patch is now worthless.
Even when 3/3/3/3 comes this change should be addressed.
Whether or not you agree I personally don't enjoy the way things are going.

It always amazes me how different ELO rankings must be. 8 assaults?? Seriously, most games I have now have 3-4 Spiders, and then some Firestarters, maybe a Jenner, and maybe a Raven 3L.

Although I did have a hilarious game where I dropped with a 4 man DDC premade. (we got dominated by the way)

[Zoid]

Sandpit, on 22 March 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

Nope
I'm saying teamwork and coordination dont' make a weapon "op" any more than an entire lance doing less than 100 damage because they all rambo in and play stupidly makes you or your w/l record a reflection of individual skill. There's no correlation there.
Just because a team uses a weapon effectively in a coordinated manner doesn't mean it's "op". Can you go 1v1 against a missile boat in a mech of equivalent size and win most times? If so, it's not "op" because an "op" weapon is "op" regardless of the how it's used. That's what "op" is. "Op" isn't only "op" when it's used en masse by an entire team. THAT'S the point

You want to play as a solo lone wolf with no regard to your team and using teamwork yet you're complaining that a team that DOES do that should have a weapon nerfed because it's "op" when they use it effectively

Again, you are missing the point, I'm guessing intentionally. It's not a matter of teamwork, it's a matter of spamming your "target enemy" button until you get a hit and then unloading missiles into it. This is exactly what I do to get 1000 damage games in a TRIAL stalker. I'm not saying what I'm saying because I had it happen, I'm saying it because I've done it and it's silly effective right now in most games. No communication on my team at all, just 4 LRM boats and we all coordinated fire on individual enemies simply because they were the only one on radar.

The missile boats are mostly sitting in cover waiting for a target. Since targets tend to show up one at a time, it means that as soon as you get targeted, you're going to have a rain of missiles coming down on you, necessitating remaining in cover all the time. It has nothing to do with a team being coordinated and everything to do just with the way the game is designed.

The simple feeling for me that's making the game not fun is that if an assault mech cannot stand outside of cover for more than 3 seconds without getting destroyed while there is only one enemy mech in visual, something is wrong. Yes, I can and have adapted, but it's just not very much fun.

EDIT:
And AGAIN you missed that I'm NOT saying they're OP, nor is anyone else who actually knows how to play, I'm saying the meta they created is stupid. It's not hard to counter them by camping out in cover, but that's just not any fun and isn't the Mechwarrior I want to play.

Edited by Zoid, 23 March 2014 - 05:59 AM.

[oldradagast]

Koniving, on 22 March 2014 - 06:46 PM, said:

Unfortunately you described the game as a result of the following harrowing changes:
Repair and rearm freebies (instead of a proper re-conception of how it works and what it charges -- Note: Percentages always give exploits!)
Repair and rearm removal.
Armlock.
Lag compensation (Host State Rewind).
Removal of 1 second delayed convergence (the final straw for pinpoint).

LRMs aren't causing the problem you're seeing. They are simply yet another symptom.

Too much damage is dealt too fast.

Example: An AC/2 is supposed to deal 2 damage within 10 seconds. As is an MG, and a flamer. The AC/2 deals 38 damage in 10 seconds.

AC/20 is supposed to do 20 damage within 10 seconds. It deals 60.

LRMs? Well let's just say if you could only fire them once in 10 seconds no one would cry.

But dividing damage to be dealt over time like that would allow us to go back to single armor and structure and yet manage to stay alive longer.

Ah well.

Valid points.

From what I can see, the problem isn't that LRM's are specifically too powerful, or that there is no way to reduce their effectiveness, but that by increasing their effectiveness, time to kill has been reduced further and thus camping is encouraged even more. This isn't an LRM problem - the situation could have been reversed with LRM's being godly and now PPC's and autocannons were just buffed - but a problem with how fast mechs die and how hiding is basically the only valid tactic.

Sure, there are games where teamwork happens, but in PUGS, that is not common, and it is even less common for the random collection of PUG mechs to have specific combinations of mechs that will work well together to handle the "flavor of the month," be it LRM's or PPC + Autocannon meta. So, the end result is a random hodgepodge of mechs hiding to survive since anyone who tries to advance or otherwise leave cover will get blown away in the blink of an eye.

Long story short, I should not have a Heavy or Assault mech evaporate under fire because I didn't take one extra step backwards behind cover and, because of an exposed thumb on my mech's hand, 120+ LRM's melt me in seconds. Sure, similar complaints can be raised about auto-cannon + PPC meta, but the LRM deaths just feel more... wrong and non-mechwarrior. Either way, though, mechs should not be reduced to scrap in seconds when they are using cover and not blindly charging out into the open. Time to kill is just way too short in this game, and the buff only made that worse.

[Mizore]

Sybreed, on 22 March 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

how to win against LRMs?

Get into 180m

Win.

Yeah, nice... and what about the other 4-7 LRM-boats that are shooting at you when you attack one of them?

[xCico]

Mizore, on 23 March 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

Yeah, nice... and what about the other 4-7 LRM-boats that are shooting at you when you attack one of them?

I meant to post that but I realised that there is no point because clearly he dosant play this game, saying that and forgetting about other players, dunno what to say...

[BLOOD WOLF]

No Guts No Glory, on 22 March 2014 - 10:49 PM, said:

Then where were your posts whining about the AC/PPC sniper fests before the patch?

Oh that's right, that was your meta.

Ironically, your trying to revert a change that offers usefullness to more classes.

If AC/PPC fest didn't kill your idea of what Mechwarrior was, LRMs on par with other weapons shouldn't either.

[Featherwood]

stjobe, on 22 March 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

Yep, that's me, the inveterate Commando pilot in his Troll-LRMando defending his domination of the game.

Nice one, made me smile Your build actually doesn't need DHS and may be a bit cheaper while having a scruple more of armour, though I'd drop one LRM5 for more ammo and armour → like this.

Edit: It's shame NARC weights so much (3++), I would love to break into enemy ranks and mark targets with it, COM-2D looks like an ideal NARC-carrier to me. LOL?

Edited by Featherwood, 23 March 2014 - 08:00 AM.

[stjobe]

Featherwood, on 23 March 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Nice one, made me smile Your build actually doesn't need DHS and may be a bit cheaper while having a scruple more of armour, though I'd drop one LRM5 for more ammo and armour → like this.

Edit: It's shame NARC weights so much (3++), I would love to break into enemy ranks and mark targets with it, COM-2D looks like an ideal NARC-carrier to me. LOL?

Yeah, your builds are improvements - but that might be because I don't actually run my 2D like that, I just whipped that build together in smurfy to make a point

LRMs on lights are just too heavy and with the speed most lights have they're not really needed either; by the time the LRM boat have gotten off two volleys I've covered the distance and is busy chewing up his backside.

What the patch did do was to make LRMs useful on mediums that can't go all-out on them but can mount a couple as a complement to their main direct-fire guns. It's suddenly no longer a no-brainer whether the missile hard points on a medium should go to SSRMs or LRMs, and that's a great development.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Varent, on 22 March 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

I stopped there.

LRMS are very good vs snipers since they ahve to stay more exposed now, jump snipers have been slowed down and er large alsers take time to aquire targets and fire. LRMS are very good against this.

Go play a brawler. Prosper.

Edit - Dont be stupid and run out in the open while playing a brawler, play a smart brawler that advances using cover.

Narcs negate cover. Its also hard to realise you are narced until you look around and realize nobody has los to you and you are still getting LRM pooped on. AND they work in ecm now....so youc an be perfectly safe in cover, and some passing ****** narcs you and you die. Narcs are a complete death sentence now.


To the op, I feel your pain. The only time I have fun now is when i play my DDC atlas, and i had to change my build and drop an srm and 1 ton of ac20 ammo just to carry 2 tons of ams ammunition JUSt to get by...None of my other mechs, especially not my all time favorite DPM battlemaster and Muromets will see the light of day anytime soon, as they dont mount ams and have to stay exposed for extended periods to get decent damage out.

[stjobe]

xXBagheeraXx, on 23 March 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

Narcs negate cover.

No, they don't.

xXBagheeraXx, on 23 March 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

AND they work in ecm now....

No, they don't.

xXBagheeraXx, on 23 March 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

so youc an be perfectly safe in cover, and some passing ****** narcs you and you die. Narcs are a complete death sentence now.

No, they aren't.

[Mcgral18]

xXBagheeraXx, on 23 March 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

Narcs negate cover. Its also hard to realise you are narced until you look around and realize nobody has los to you and you are still getting LRM pooped on. AND they work in ecm now....so youc an be perfectly safe in cover, and some passing ****** narcs you and you die. Narcs are a complete death sentence now.

Nope, ECM still counters NARC, in fact a single ECM can cancel up to 11 NARCs, since as long as a bubble is intact the NARC will never break through. You need to NARC the ECM carrier, be it a DDC or a 5D.

And NARC doesn't affect the angle of missiles, so cover is cover, no matter what. Unless you didn't pick cover, but concealment.

[Sandpit]

Zoid, on 23 March 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

Again, you are missing the point, I'm guessing intentionally. It's not a matter of teamwork, it's a matter of spamming your "target enemy" button until you get a hit and then unloading missiles into it. This is exactly what I do to get 1000 damage games in a TRIAL stalker. I'm not saying what I'm saying because I had it happen, I'm saying it because I've done it and it's silly effective right now in most games. No communication on my team at all, just 4 LRM boats and we all coordinated fire on individual enemies simply because they were the only one on radar.

The missile boats are mostly sitting in cover waiting for a target. Since targets tend to show up one at a time, it means that as soon as you get targeted, you're going to have a rain of missiles coming down on you, necessitating remaining in cover all the time. It has nothing to do with a team being coordinated and everything to do just with the way the game is designed.

The simple feeling for me that's making the game not fun is that if an assault mech cannot stand outside of cover for more than 3 seconds without getting destroyed while there is only one enemy mech in visual, something is wrong. Yes, I can and have adapted, but it's just not very much fun.

EDIT:
And AGAIN you missed that I'm NOT saying they're OP, nor is anyone else who actually knows how to play, I'm saying the meta they created is stupid. It's not hard to counter them by camping out in cover, but that's just not any fun and isn't the Mechwarrior I want to play.

No, I understand your point, I don't agree with it. Intentionally.

YOU aren't saying their "OP" so that must mean this and the other 15 threads on the front page aren't right?
Read the threads. People ARE saying their "OP", just ebcause YOU aren't doesn't mean THEY aren't.

teamwork = op

[DocBach]

teamwork = virtually impossible with pugs since they don't play as a team

right now, the fact that half the teams i see dropping are stalkers and battlemaster LRM boats means that something went a little too far in the balance department. LRM's need lower rate of fire if they're going to be this effective or something because right now it IS ridiculous.

[Sandpit]

DocBach, on 23 March 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

teamwork = virtually impossible with pugs since they don't play as a team

so now weapons should be nerfed based on PUGs not using teamwork? That's exactly what's wrong with this game now...

[Bishop Steiner]

DocBach, on 23 March 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

teamwork = virtually impossible with pugs since they don't play as a team

right now, the fact that half the teams i see dropping are stalkers and battlemaster LRM boats means that something went a little too far in the balance department. LRM's need lower rate of fire if they're going to be this effective or something because right now it IS ridiculous.

SORRY Doc, just not seeing it. I have on average seen maybe 1 LRMtastic match every 3-4 drops, and still am waiting for my first LRM death. The Tournament just showed that Poptart is still the dominant Meta, and LRMs are actually halfway decent at suppressing it. I even find I can brawl better (on most maps) as long as I have the patience to use a covered approach. (cover, not concealment).

It aint perfect, but it certainly aint LRMageddon.