114 replies to this topic

[Mavairo]

"Dear PGI I can't play worth a damn, and I absolutely refuse to put AMS on my mechs. I took me every bit of ingenuity I could muster to get my 2 AC5s + PPCs on my Mech. NERF LRMS HERMAGERD!"

^ that is what I hear as a Brawling Thunderbolt.

[Burke IV]

LRM speed is fine. Bigger issues are fixed tube counts and trying to balance them up against ACs that fire single shots. It seems likely PGI will never balance things up in the proper way (i could write pages but i just cba) so the only real hope for this game are fixed pseudo stock loadouts. Hardcore mode or something.

Did i mention JJs? yeah fix them too.

[cSand]

PGI, don't change the LRMs please

the blood of LRM-kitties powers my QKD

[Sandpit]

Mavairo, on 23 March 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

"Dear PGI I can't play worth a damn, and I absolutely refuse to put AMS on my mechs. I took me every bit of ingenuity I could muster to get my 2 AC5s + PPCs on my Mech. NERF LRMS HERMAGERD!"

^ that is what I hear as a Brawling Thunderbolt.

Glad I'm nto the only one who sees it

[Mazzyplz]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

my thoughts on LRMs were posted in the first 10 or so threads about them. Now it's just a matter of the same people repeating the same thing in different threads.
lrm 1000 damage = op weapons and pgi needing to fix something
ac and ppc 1000 damage = high fives and awesome round bro!

ppc fire auto aims now?

also, you mean the trial mech doing 1000 dmg right?

yea that's a good sign

[Mavairo]

Mazzyplz, on 23 March 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

ppc fire auto aims now?

also, you mean the trial mech doing 1000 dmg right?

yea that's a good sign

They might as well. Seriously, with as slow as mechs are relative to ballistic velocity in this game, do you really want to say it takes "real skill™" to aim a ppc and pick off a CT? Seriously? Hell it's gotten easier to do that since beta. Because sadly, thanks to Pop Retarting people actually move less now than they did back then, and don't even bother torso twisting.

[Rashhaverak]

No. The only people who thought LRMs were fine were those who weren't using them. LRMs users were getting there butts kicked by the AC crowd. Now LRMs are finally able to compete. You don't like it, well, I didn't like getting crushed by TripAC2 builds that ignored my missiles. Now we all got it tough I guess.

[Manei Domini Krigg]

120 m/s is to slow
175 m/s it to fast

140-150 m/s will be good balance

[cSand]

Mavairo, on 23 March 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Because sadly, thanks to Pop Retarting people actually move less now than they did back then, and don't even bother torso twisting.

Ah yes, the "sweeping generalization"

well played sir, well played

[Mavairo]

cSand, on 23 March 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Ah yes, the "sweeping generalization"

well played sir, well played

Well it is true. MWO has become about static pop tarting gunlines since beta. Sure there's an odd exception here and there, but most players...welll *just points to this and just about every other thread in general right now* they aren't even willing to put AMS on mechs, or god forbid start using cover that's proof against lrm assault or advancing towards the enemy and shredding them.

[Sandpit]

Mazzyplz, on 23 March 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

ppc fire auto aims now?

also, you mean the trial mech doing 1000 dmg right?

yea that's a good sign

oh lrms auto aim now? Please show me an example of this. Show me where I just point an LRM into the air and it magically targets an enemy mech. If you're going to defend your position at LEAST use sensible things to do it.

Ahhhhh, so a trial mech shouldn't be able to do 1000 damage. So we're getting to the real crux of it now.
"Some new guy in the trial Stalker that carries 4 LRM15's and TAG did 1000 damage against me and my "elite" buddies so that "proves" LRMs are "op"

[Mazzyplz]

i haven't died to LRM but once so don't get your panties in a bunch

i have however seen that the LRM stalker is the only trial mech putting out 900 - 1000 dmg from unexperienced players.


yes. LRM auto aims, you press R, fire into the sky and it goes magically to it's target.
the only thing you missed on your post was the R thing, i guess that takes a hell of a lot of skill

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Explain to me how doing 1000 damage in any other build is "good"
but 1000 damage in LRM boats is "op"

Easy it is about game play not damage. LRMs are now forcing both sides to stand back and trade LRMs for a large part of the game. (with exceptions of course). So what I have noticed are longer games. More games that are won at long range without a real brawl and only mopping up at the end. More people getting killed before ever getting close enough to fire a shot etc. Many people find this type of game play less fun. So really maybe the question is more about what ideal average game play should look like.

[Burke IV]

That trial stalker is hilarious. Its probably a really good mech to give a new player some interest in playing more

[Sandpit]

Mazzyplz, on 23 March 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

i haven't died to LRM but once so don't get your panties in a bunch

i have however seen that the LRM stalker is the only trial mech putting out 900 - 1000 dmg from unexperienced players.


yes. LRM auto aims, you press R, fire into the sky and it goes magically to it's target.
the only thing you missed on your post was the R thing, i guess that takes a hell of a lot of skill

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

oh lrms auto aim now? Please show me an example of this. Show me where I just point an LRM into the air and it magically targets an enemy mech. If you're going to defend your position at LEAST use sensible things to do it.

Ahhhhh, so a trial mech shouldn't be able to do 1000 damage. So we're getting to the real crux of it now.
"Some new guy in the trial Stalker that carries 4 LRM15's and TAG did 1000 damage against me and my "elite" buddies so that "proves" LRMs are "op"

Yup, just what I said

XX Sulla XX, on 23 March 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

Easy it is about game play not damage. LRMs are now forcing both sides to stand back and trade LRMs for a large part of the game. (with exceptions of course). So what I have noticed are longer games. More games that are won at long range without a real brawl and only mopping up at the end. More people getting killed before ever getting close enough to fire a shot etc. Many people find this type of game play less fun. So really maybe the question is more about what ideal average game play should look like.

So all of the players posting otherwise and explaining how to avoid that kind of stalemate are wrong?

Mazzyplz, on 23 March 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

yes. LRM auto aims, you press R, fire into the sky and it goes magically to it's target.
the only thing you missed on your post was the R thing, i guess that takes a hell of a lot of skill

Never mind losing lock loses hits
ECM counters the magic R button
AMS shoots them down
Standing behind tall cover negates them
Faster mechs outrun them
If your teammate LoS, you lose lock

Yea they're some sort of magic auto aim weapon lol

[Heydiddly]

I feel that 175m/s is a bit of an overshoot, 150-160m/s would probably be closer to the sweet spot. As is stands, cover is simply not as effective as it ought to be (and some maps simply don't have any) because breaking locks doesn't really help anymore if you're <100kph.

To me though, the real problem is what this has done to AMS. It has simultaneously been nerfed against LRMs (bad), buffed against streaks (good) and buffed against SRMs (lolreally?). Before you cry foul, I present to you the power of simple maths: LRM speed +46%, AMS range +25%. I don't think I need to explain that any further. As it stands, I'm often seeing mechs shielded by 2-3 AMS being melted by LRMs in a matter of seconds like the AMS isn't even there.

A further, albeit temporary problem is that due to the sheer volumes of LRM boats dropping right now, 1-2 tons of AMS ammo is depleted in a few minutes, and the lurms just continue to blot out the sun. I acknowledge that this is a temporary problem though, which should go away once the number of LRM users evens itself out.

As a sidenote, I like that ECM feels much more important now - pre-patch I would honestly forget that I was even carrying one sometimes.

[Sandpit]

Heydiddly, on 23 March 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

To me though, the real problem is what this has done to AMS. It has simultaneously been nerfed against LRMs (bad).

How is an increase of range to 120 meters a nerf against LRMs?

[Heydiddly]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

How is an increase of range to 120 meters a nerf against LRMs?

Heydiddly, on 23 March 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

Before you cry foul, I present to you the power of simple maths: LRM speed +46%, AMS range +25%. I don't think I need to explain that any further.

Please read the whole post, lol.

Edited by Heydiddly, 23 March 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[RadioKies]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Never mind losing lock loses hits
ECM counters the magic R button
AMS shoots them down
Standing behind tall cover negates them
Faster mechs outrun them
If your teammate LoS, you lose lock

My 134kph Firestarter does not outrun them.
You can avoid ECM by having (you or someone in your team using) a TAG or Narc. Also a ECM is easy to destroy because they are in a fixed location. + Don't forget about BAP negating ECM between 270 and 200m.
If you lose lock you can relock after you or someone else spots the target.
Even if you lose lock the LRM's are still going to the last place they had a lock.

Try running to cover in overheat valley, or try to go anywhere in a slow mech like the Victor, Stalker, Atlas, Jager etc within a few seconds. Try doing it piloting a mech you are still Basicing.

AMS is a great solution that really helps against LRM atm... NOT!
AMS will shoot down about 5 missiles, how does that help against mechs with LRM 10/15/20? Mechs never carry just one LRM launcher and LRM capable mechs don't come alone.

When one side has a few LRM boats it's "GG, close!". At least you could do something about jumpsnipers, splatcats, gaussapults, AC40 jagerbombs etc.

I liked the previous LRM implementation, I used them but switched between lasers and AC's from time to time. I have verry diffirent mech builds that I use. I've been playing since closed beta and this is the worst OP gamebreaking patch I've seen thusfar.

Thanks for your superior input officer Barbrady (nothing to see here people, just move along).

Edited by RadioKies, 23 March 2014 - 01:25 PM.

[Sandpit]

Heydiddly, on 23 March 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

Please read the whole post, lol.

Just because a weapon has its speed increased doesn't mean AMs not increasing the exact same % amount is a "nerf" lol

RadioKies, on 23 March 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

My 134kph Firestarter does not outrun them.
You can avoid ECM by having (you or someone in your team using) a TAG or Narc. Alsoa ECM is easy to destroy because they are in a fixed location.
If you lose lock you can relock after you or someone else spots the target.
Even if you lose lock the LRM's are still going to the last place they had a lock.

Try running to cover in overheat valley, or try to go anywhere in a slow mech like the Victor, Stalker, Atlas, Jager etc within a few seconds. Try doing it piloting a mech you are still Basicing.

AMS is a great solution that really helps against LRM atm... NOT!
AMS will shoot down about 5 misiles, how does that help against mech with LRM 10/15/20? Mechs never carry just one LRM launcher and LRM capable mechs don't come alone.

When one side has a few LRM boats it's "GG, close!". At least you could do something about jumpsnipers, splatcats, gaussapults, AC40 jagerbombs etc.

I liked the previous LRM implementation, I used them but switched between lasers and AC's from time to time. I have verry diffirent mech builds that I use. I've been playing since closed beta and this is the worst OP gamebreaking patch I've seen thusfar.

Thanks for your superior input officer Barbrady (nothing to see here people, just move along).

Ahhhhhhhhhh
so let's see

You mean they have counters as well? You mean there's no singular weapon or tactic that works now? You mean you have to use teamwork and combine different counters to close so that LRMs do NO DAMAGE UNDER 180 METERS?

Thanks for proving yet again that the only ones who are unwilling to adapt are metahumping poptarters.