775 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Dimento Graven, on 27 March 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

I can't believe that I'm somehow better with LRMs than most other players.

Anyone who knows me will tell you, I have pretty huge ego, but... When it comes to LRMs, no, they REALLY ARE just THAT easy...

Well, sorry to say this but, it is your ego talking.

Edited by Mystere, 27 March 2014 - 04:58 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Charons Little Helper, on 25 March 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

Yes - because 1.5 tons on its own should totally cancel out the bulk of a weapon system which likely weighs 25+ tons and requires an active action.

To put an weight to this, consider this. An active AMS will cancel 4 missiles per salvo. So per tube in salvo the percentage of wasted tonnage is as follows:

LRM 5 = 80% wasted = 144 missiles per ton
LRM 10 = 40% wasted = 140 missiles per ton
LRM 15 = 26% wasted = 46 missiles per ton
LRM 20 = 20% wasted = 36 missiles per ton


Since an AMS carries 1000 rounds you can imagine the value that 1 ton of ammo gets.

And no, AMS does not miss and shoots through solid objects.

[Artgathan]

wintersborn, on 27 March 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

What I meant was more like you fire at a light mech say 700m away, then he gets the warning to run and listens. He then runs off to say the left and by the time the missiles get to him he has run 400m thus the total distance travelled by the LRM was more than 1000m.

Flight distance vs Target distance?

Missiles detonate after 1000m traveled, so in the provided example they would detonate. In fact, they would even detonate if the light was still within 1000m of the mech launching the LRMs, provided the light had traced some sort of path that made the missiles travel 1000m - that's what I was getting about with my point about launching missiles at 1000m.

Assuming you're on flat ground with your target, the trajectory that LRMs follow in flight means that they travel 1000m before they actually reach the target that your sensors say is 1000m from you. Once they hit 1000m (flight time) they detonate.

[wanderer]

Quote

Flight distance vs Target distance?

Exactly. LRMs will fly 1000m and then detonate. If a target gets enough distance between launch and arrival, he can indeed get LRMs to run out of fuel and kablooey mid-air. Likewise, if a target gets within 179m or less of the origin point of an LRM launch before they impact, the missiles will not arm- even if he was 180+ meters away when fired.

For that matter, if you're running AWAY from a launch and were inside 180m when it's fired and outside 180m from it's starting point when they impact, you're gonna get pasted. I've ruined a few light 'Mechs that way- they dodged away from my lasers and *SMACK* gave my missiles just enough range to arm and blast them.

Vertical distance also matters. A target far enough above or below you ends up effectively "farther" away, regardless of raw horizontal range- a steep hill can effectively "arm" a missile that's a few meters short otherwise or make a launch detonate before it reaches a target at extreme range.

Edited by wanderer, 28 March 2014 - 04:21 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Dimento Graven, on 26 March 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

Proof of "easy mode":

What I especially loved is how Frost (played with him often, he is a good player) does 1000+ damage in a mech with pinpoint only weapons and gets 2 kills, while you do under 900 damage with weapon that spreads the damage all over (as some people here claim) and get 8 kills. (Considering it wasn't a roflstomp and they actually killed quite a few from your team).

8 kills and barely yellow armor on most of the mech.

Totally not OP and totally not easy mode. [/sarcasm]

[Wolfways]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 March 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

What I especially loved is how Frost (played with him often, he is a good player) does 1000+ damage in a mech with pinpoint only weapons and gets 2 kills, while you do under 900 damage with weapon that spreads the damage all over (as some people here claim) and get 8 kills. (Considering it wasn't a roflstomp and they actually killed quite a few from your team).

8 kills and barely yellow armor on most of the mech.

Totally not OP and totally not easy mode. [/sarcasm]

As LRM's spread their damage if you fire at an already damaged mech there's a good chance you'll hit the areas with the most damage and therefore get the kill.
If you fire direct-fire weapons at a mech that has already been hit by LRM's then most of the targets armour has already been weakened therefore making it easier for you to destroy the mech.
It works both ways with the only difference being that the LRM boat can't choose where on the target to hit but can hit badly damaged areas easier.

It is a team effort and in a team based game KDR is a stupid stat to have as it means nothing and imo should be removed from the game.

[PhoenixFire55]

Wolfways, on 28 March 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

As LRM's spread their damage if you fire at an already damaged mech there's a good chance you'll hit the areas with the most damage and therefore get the kill.
If you fire direct-fire weapons at a mech that has already been hit by LRM's then most of the targets armour has already been weakened therefore making it easier for you to destroy the mech.
It works both ways with the only difference being that the LRM boat can't choose where on the target to hit but can hit badly damaged areas easier.

And yet this has nothing to do with what we actually see.

[Wolfways]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 March 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

And yet this has nothing to do with what we actually see.

How so?

[PhoenixFire55]

Wolfways, on 28 March 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

How so?

Wolfways, on 28 March 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

LRM boat can't choose where on the target to hit but can hit badly damaged areas easier.

Doesn't need to, 75% hit CT and CT is where you want to aim to surely kill a mech.

[Wolfways]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 March 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

Doesn't need to, 75% hit CT and CT is where you want to aim to surely kill a mech.

Depends. If i'm sure the target has an XL engine taking out the side torso's is faster.
Besides, if 75% hit CT, and i'm assuming you mean LRM's with TAG, why isn't it TAG that players want nerfed instead of LRM's?
I know that just yesterday i walked out into the open to see the effectiveness of LRM's now. I was hit by a Stalker boat seconds later (direct-fire without TAG) and the damage was spread pretty much evenly across my mech.

[PhoenixFire55]

Wolfways, on 28 March 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Depends. If i'm sure the target has an XL engine taking out the side torso's is faster.
Besides, if 75% hit CT, and i'm assuming you mean LRM's with TAG, why isn't it TAG that players want nerfed instead of LRM's?
I know that just yesterday i walked out into the open to see the effectiveness of LRM's now. I was hit by a Stalker boat seconds later (direct-fire without TAG) and the damage was spread pretty much evenly across my mech.

Depends on a mech, yes, but most take it to CT from front, rear and side. You can protect side much better than CT. Besides, you can't always tell if they got XL or not, so CT is always safe bet.

[wanderer]

Which is kinda strange, because I tend to get hit by missiles in my Cataphract on the arm/side torso/facing leg(s) when I'm twisted away. If I'm facing into a salvo, it spreads roughly 10% to each limb, about 15% to each side torso, and the remaining 30% to the CT.

If it's TAG or NARC designated, that changes to the "CT" being whatever got designated and spreading from there and biases about 20%-30% more to the designated location- which means if it's CT, that's when you get that shredfest- 50%+ of a 60-missile salvo is a helluva lot of damage to a single location, about as bad as if someone was firing multiple large lasers into the target for damage purposes.

[Wolfways]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 March 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Depends on a mech, yes, but most take it to CT from front, rear and side. You can protect side much better than CT. Besides, you can't always tell if they got XL or not, so CT is always safe bet.

Hitboxes are definitely weird in MWO. I was in my Catapult firing at a mech when i started getting hit in the rear. I turned around to face the Catapult that was right behind me firing LL's and fired ML's at him until he backed away around cover.
At the end of the match i realized i had no rear damage at all

[PhoenixFire55]

Wolfways, on 28 March 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

Hitboxes are definitely weird in MWO. I was in my Catapult firing at a mech when i started getting hit in the rear. I turned around to face the Catapult that was right behind me firing LL's and fired ML's at him until he backed away around cover.
At the end of the match i realized i had no rear damage at all

Its not about hitboxes, its about LRMs not spreading at all. When all 80 missiles in a volley hit your mech its BS.

[Wolfways]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 March 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

Its not about hitboxes, its about LRMs not spreading at all. When all 80 missiles in a volley hit your mech its BS.

80 in a volley? You have definitely let the enemy outmaneuver you if that many mechs are hitting you.

[PhoenixFire55]

Wolfways, on 28 March 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

80 in a volley? You have definitely let the enemy outmaneuver you if that many mechs are hitting you.

No, thats 80 in ONE volley from ONE mech.

[Wolfways]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 March 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

No, thats 80 in ONE volley from ONE mech.

Oh, in that case the problem isn't the weapon it's boating. But there are canon boats in BT and PGI never accounted for that when they made MWO and let players aim. Although of course you can't aim with LRMs so i don't really see a problem. I'd rather take 80 spread damage than 40 concentrated damage.
If i see a Stalker firing LRM's i either get to cover or if possible get within 180m.
I just had a game on HPG in my JM6-S where i saw a Catapult firing missiles at my team, so i got in close to him, killed him, turned a corner to find the rest of his lance, took out the Atlas and Victor and my team turned up to help finish off the Highlander. From there it was a steamroll.
Another enemy mech did manage to hit me once with LRM's but that was all because i was behind cover again straight away.
I don't expect every game to go that well, especially on Alpine, but as most maps are covered with....cover LRM's just aren't an issue.

[PhoenixFire55]

Wolfways, on 28 March 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

Oh, in that case the problem isn't the weapon it's boating...

No. Problem is broken missiles mechanic.
As for cover. Most of that cover is useless as LRMs go way above it easy enough.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 28 March 2014 - 09:08 AM.

[Wolfways]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 March 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

No. Problem is broken missiles mechanic.
As for cover. Most of that cover is useless as LRMs go way above it easy enough.

If LRM's go over cover...well i guess we aren't playing the same game because i use cover all the time and rarely get hit by indirect-fire. I do hear missiles hitting cover i've moved behind though, or hit the ground near me.

[Rebas Kradd]

Wolfways, on 28 March 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

If LRM's go over cover...well i guess we aren't playing the same game because i use cover all the time and rarely get hit by indirect-fire. I do hear missiles hitting cover i've moved behind though, or hit the ground near me.

Agreed - what PhoenixFire55 is experiencing is just not my experience at all.