775 replies to this topic

[Tw1stedMonkey]

wanderer, on 10 April 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

That's correct. Welcome to what LRMs have introduced to lower-ELO PUG Hell- people actually firing at the same target.

The feeling you're getting is learning that you cannot win alone when people actually don't randomly pick targets, something LRMs actually simulate to a lesser degree vs. how it works at it's best (lines of PPC/AC fire converging from a lance, through your CT, and out the other side). That is, they are...

...playing co-operatively. I'm sorry that you don't find that fun unless it's against an opponent who can't do the same (read: the AI in PvE games like Diablo). Clearly, co-op PvP play for you is like holy water on a vampire.

Yeah, I'm definitely not in lower ELO hell lol. I'm 90% sure my PUG stats would beat your PUG stats. I am good enough of a player to join a clan or group, but I refuse because i don't like what it does to the game environment. I play a game to have fun and relax, not min/max everything and make it like a job to win. It sucks all of the joy out when "competition" takes precedence over having a good time. Dedicated preformed groups give too much of an advantage to one side, and I would feel too guilty about all of the randoms I'ld be ******** all over just to get a "thrill" for me to want to join. But i'm sure that doesn't stop you! So have fun with it you pretentious douche.

[Kjudoon]

Well Shin, that was an interesting video.

The tactic you were using I'd call "LRMishing". Maybe it's my elo level but I'm used to 6-8 AMS units on the field and at least 2 ECM mechs and they did not focus fire on you like I've had done to me. Good damage and you definitely kept moving far better than many LRM pilots and your brawling skills certainly shone. You definitely got helped by a good team spotting for you too, though it seemed like you didn't take much advantage of that preferring to get your own locks. Not a bad thing, just a tactical choice that can expose you to getting hit more than need be.

Lots of guys on that other team gave you many open ground shots which you did a good job capitalizing on them and good use of tag. Don't expect that at as you improve over time with performances like that. Needless to say, I almost never see those kind of opportunities on a regular basis unless something goes sideways for them, but when they happen, I'm not the only one pouncing on them hard.

It's too bad that 4 LRM5s don't have a knockout punch like having 30+ tubes does, otherwise I think you'd have gotten 3 more kills easy. But that's the bane of LRM5s when you boat them. Sometimes switching to volley fire does the trick.

I hope you're seeing that LRMs aren't quite the insta-win button too many claim they are. Good video.

[ShinVector]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 10 April 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

This is what lrms do for the game, say what you will about other metas but nothing is more frustrating than feeling helpless against a barrage of fire you can not counter alone, which is the PUG experience. Nothing punishes even slight mistakes in such quick and unsalvagable way as lrms. NOTHING else gets me killed as quickly, if i mess up and overextend against pop tarts i'll likely take a decent amount of damage and pay for it, but with lrms it's just instant death or extreme crippling. It's not fun or healthy for the future of the game, but really do whatever the **** you like. I still have over 50 days of premium ticking down (from project pheonix) yet have no desire at all to play the game. Getting around to finishing up dark souls 2 and the diablo 3 expansion. At least you don't have to deal with "competitive" players that suck all the joy out of a game and turn it into a chore in these games. I prefer co-op games as they breed comradery instead of bitterness and hate anyway. I'll have to see how the next few patches go, because the core gameplay is damn fun if they can just get it balanced.

Honest I believe the biggest difference between LRMs and other weapons has a BIG red 'INCOMING MISSILES' message on your screen. The horrendous damage it can potential cause has actually caused enough mental damage to most PUG to be paralysed into not know what to do, other than getting to cover. Haiz..

I am waiting for the 'Server Side Hit' effects and the 3/3/3/3 patch..
Should help me improve my game play and help limit super boating... Hopefully.

Edited by ShinVector, 11 April 2014 - 12:55 AM.

[Kjudoon]

ShinVector, on 11 April 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

Honest I believe the biggest difference between LRMs and other weapons has a BIG red 'INCOMING MISSILES' message on your screen. The horrendous damage it can potential cause has actually caused enough mental damage to most PUG to be paralysed into not know what to do, other than getting to cover. Haiz..

This is true, they do cause 'horrendous damage'... spread across the entire mech. So it's not really that horrendous, just intimidating which is just as bad as that howling bang you get when hit by a gauss for no reason. You want to find cover and NOW. LRMs get a lot more screaming mimis with it instead of raw psycho shock of BAM! Arm's gone!

[ShinVector]

wanderer, on 10 April 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Our #1 light pilot was Eglar (and he was #1 overall for Liao, of course) in the tournament...well, #1 as in he had a 1100+ game in a Locust-3M. Ended up just outside his top 10 matches.

A. Locust.

It's notable that the best LRM players ended up a notch below the best, period. The top scores came in from people piloting stuff like classic PPC/AC Cataphracts and Victors and lights. Yes, lights. Ravens and Embers showed up in top 10's across the board as well.

Actually he isn't really ours.. He is actually one of our Kurita double agents. He did crazy good in that Locust no doubt.
I related to Edmister more as he is another light specialised pilot, like myself..

I had a lot of fun challenging him on Light leader board on the Medium Vs. the world tourny..

But the faction tounry was pretty bad for lights with 175m/s LRM flying all over the place.. The most I do in the Ember of was #10 on Liao.. Played very hard... But could not get the results I wanted... Light mech piloting involves very careful armour management... 175 m/s LRM.. destroyed that because anybody lock on you indirectly and spoil your day.

I asked Elgar.. Marik #1.. They too found the LRMs annoying... We prefer our direct fire fights... Feels much more personal that way.. Ultimately.. Fun..

Edited by ShinVector, 11 April 2014 - 01:14 AM.

[ShinVector]

Kjudoon, on 11 April 2014 - 12:45 AM, said:

I hope you're seeing that LRMs aren't quite the insta-win button too many claim they are. Good video.

Depends on the number of boats... 1 LRM even a Super version can be dealt with..
3-4.. Now that when the games starts to get much less fun than it used to be...
Players keep going to the chesse and unfortunately.. LRMs is something brawlers find especially stinky.

Kjudoon, on 11 April 2014 - 12:55 AM, said:

This is true, they do cause 'horrendous damage'... spread across the entire mech. So it's not really that horrendous, just intimidating which is just as bad as that howling bang you get when hit by a gauss for no reason. You want to find cover and NOW. LRMs get a lot more screaming mimis with it instead of raw psycho shock of BAM! Arm's gone!

'Horrendous' damage to the mechs I pilot.. Light mechs. Don't have a lot of armour in the first place.

That's normal.. That is what cover is truly for.. Out of LOS.. direct fire can't hit you, unlike LRM with spotters.. 'Incoming Missiles' You don't know whether it going to hit you our not or whether it LRM5 or LRM60 until its too late.

Edited by ShinVector, 11 April 2014 - 01:26 AM.

[wanderer]

ShinVector, on 11 April 2014 - 01:20 AM, said:

'Horrendous' damage to the mechs I pilot.. Light mechs. Don't have a lot of armour in the first place.

That's normal.. That is what cover is truly for.. Out of LOS.. direct fire can't hit you, unlike LRM with spotters.. 'Incoming Missiles' You don't know whether it going to hit you our not or whether it LRM5 or LRM60 until its too late.

Of course, someone has a direct fire line on you if they're spotting, that generally being required to see you- and again, that isn't cover. That's merely concealment. I'd hope that some time spent in a missile boat gives you an idea of how and where LRMs work and where they don't...which, IMHO is the key to learning how to render them relatively neutered in gameplay.

I don't get killed by missiles much at this point, in part because enough time in the ol' Phract-2X means I paint parts of the map in my mental headscape with "If I go there, I'm risking getting bombarded" from "I love it when people go there, easy targets" experiences when I'm the one lobbing missiles. Knowledge results in prediction, prediction results in fewer good shots for the other side and more chances for my team to get a clean approach and smoke some missile boats.

Tw1stedMonkey, on 11 April 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

Yeah, I'm definitely not in lower ELO hell lol. I'm 90% sure my PUG stats would beat your PUG stats. I am good enough of a player to join a clan or group, but I refuse because i don't like what it does to the game environment. I play a game to have fun and relax, not min/max everything and make it like a job to win. It sucks all of the joy out when "competition" takes precedence over having a good time. Dedicated preformed groups give too much of an advantage to one side, and I would feel too guilty about all of the randoms I'ld be ******** all over just to get a "thrill" for me to want to join. But i'm sure that doesn't stop you! So have fun with it you pretentious douche.

Post em. CATAPHRACT CTF-2X 138 72 64 1.13 120 78 1.54 51,311 150,354 16:32:53

There's my PUGgin LRMin -2X. I regularly end up cycling right at the borderline between games like this:



And the occasional game with folks like Wispy, Roadbeer, the NGNG crew, etc.

[Ordellus]

wanderer, on 10 April 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Our #1 light pilot was Eglar (and he was #1 overall for Liao, of course) in the tournament...well, #1 as in he had a 1100+ game in a Locust-3M. Ended up just outside his top 10 matches.

A. Locust.

It's notable that the best LRM players ended up a notch below the best, period. The top scores came in from people piloting stuff like classic PPC/AC Cataphracts and Victors and lights. Yes, lights. Ravens and Embers showed up in top 10's across the board as well.

That's not b/c the players are good (in 90% of the cases).

It's usually b/c they strap on some long range weapon, and then hide all game while their team dies.

I can get 1200 damage a match too if I get to choose to let 11 guys die softening up my targets, be incredibly hard to hit, and then choose engagement range b/c I'm faster.

(Especially if I drop with groups against pugs.... never seen one of the NGNG guys actually playing the game solo, and yet they always have the most broken combo availiable.... such skill.... be impressed!)

Lights are easy mode when it comes to staying alive.

Edited by Ordellus, 11 April 2014 - 09:03 AM.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

wanderer, on 11 April 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

Of course, someone has a direct fire line on you if they're spotting, that generally being required to see you- and again, that isn't cover. That's merely concealment. I'd hope that some time spent in a missile boat gives you an idea of how and where LRMs work and where they don't...which, IMHO is the key to learning how to render them relatively neutered in gameplay.

I don't get killed by missiles much at this point, in part because enough time in the ol' Phract-2X means I paint parts of the map in my mental headscape with "If I go there, I'm risking getting bombarded" from "I love it when people go there, easy targets" experiences when I'm the one lobbing missiles. Knowledge results in prediction, prediction results in fewer good shots for the other side and more chances for my team to get a clean approach and smoke some missile boats.



Post em. CATAPHRACT CTF-2X 138 72 64 1.13 120 78 1.54 51,311 150,354 16:32:53

There's my PUGgin LRMin -2X. I regularly end up cycling right at the borderline between games like this:

And the occasional game with folks like Wispy, Roadbeer, the NGNG crew, etc.

the 2x for lrms? Not exactly an lrm boat with only 2 missiles slots and 4 tubes (or do they change with lrm launchers yet?)
I haven't played in a group larger than 2 since the patch, but I have played many of the games in a 2 man, but we kinda just pilot whatever we feel like and sometimes don't even stick together that well. So I'll just post my stats screen?
https://onedrive.liv...nt=photo%2c.jpg

Kinda funny that my dragon turns out to have the highest average damage done per game and my 2 LPL 6 MGs jager DD has the best k/d lol.

Edit: and of course it ignores extra white spaces after i spend 10 mins tidying up the table.... Screw it I'll just link a screenshot.

Edited by Tw1stedMonkey, 11 April 2014 - 05:56 PM.

[SleekHusky]

I am wondering why the LRMS got buffed in the first place, as if they were not annoying enough already.

At least perhaps balance the teams so each team could evenly have lrm boats. And to make it simpler maybe do it for the common lrm boat mechs like Catapults (with exception for K2) and Stalkers (with exception for Misery). Kind of like World of Tanks does with the artillery.

[Novakaine]

Sleek34, on 12 April 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

I am wondering why the LRMS got buffed in the first place, as if they were not annoying enough already.

At least perhaps balance the teams so each team could evenly have lrm boats. And to make it simpler maybe do it for the common lrm boat mechs like Catapults (with exception for K2) and Stalkers (with exception for Misery). Kind of like World of Tanks does with the artillery.

The reason for the LRM buff, was simply the fact they wanted to buff up ams.
But didn't want to have to hear all the qq from the MIsslemongers myself included.
So buff lrms, and buff ams, ooopty lrms's are to fast now.
After only a week of so called monitoring - seriously a blind man could see this one coming.
Nerf LRM's once again.
Leave ams untouched.
Thanks for the shaft once again pgi.

[Wolfways]

Sleek34, on 12 April 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

I am wondering why the LRMS got buffed in the first place, as if they were not annoying enough already.

At least perhaps balance the teams so each team could evenly have lrm boats. And to make it simpler maybe do it for the common lrm boat mechs like Catapults (with exception for K2) and Stalkers (with exception for Misery). Kind of like World of Tanks does with the artillery.

Not everyone who uses those mechs is a missile boat.
But yeah, let's "balance" one of the weakest weapons in the game...

[El Bandito]

PGI, you heard the sane majority. Revert the nerf. Give the 175 speed back to the LRMs so it will bring back some role plays for Lights and Mediums.

[Wolfways]

El Bandito, on 13 April 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

PGI, you heard the sane majority. Revert the nerf. Give the 175 speed back to the LRMs so it will bring back some role plays for Lights and Mediums.

Hey don't include me in your sane majority

Imo, you could speed LRM's up to 500ms, and double their damage and range...it would make little difference to me and i will always consider them weak weapons.
The only thing that will make LRM's Long-Range-Missiles is changing the maps from arena's to battlefields.

[Master Maniac]

Kjudoon, on 11 April 2014 - 12:45 AM, said:

I hope you're seeing that LRMs aren't quite the insta-win button too many claim they are. Good video.

Few people are saying LRMs are "insta-win" weapons. Most people are saying that LRMs are bad, boring, and lazy.

El Bandito, on 13 April 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

PGI, you heard the sane majority. Revert the nerf. Give the 175 speed back to the LRMs so it will bring back some role plays for Lights and Mediums.

"Role plays?"

[Kjudoon]

Sleek34, on 12 April 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

I am wondering why the LRMS got buffed in the first place, as if they were not annoying enough already.

At least perhaps balance the teams so each team could evenly have lrm boats. And to make it simpler maybe do it for the common lrm boat mechs like Catapults (with exception for K2) and Stalkers (with exception for Misery). Kind of like World of Tanks does with the artillery.

They're not meant to be annoying. They're meant to make you go 'oh crap' just like autocannons and PPCs do. More social proof LRMs are not buffed enough.

Edited by Kjudoon, 13 April 2014 - 01:18 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Master Maniac, on 13 April 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

Few people are saying LRMs are "insta-win" weapons. Most people are saying that LRMs are bad, boring, and lazy.



"Role plays?"

Do not confuse bad, boring and lazy for smart, efficient and strategic weapons. If you need an adrenaline thrill to play the game, you often can't play LRMs well (there are rare exceptions, but I've seen more than a couple videos of brawlers trying to prove how good LRM pilots they are and leave me less than impressed). If you don't care about the smell of PPC Ozone and seeing your enemy's face as you blow off his torso, LRMs may be more your speed.

And yes, LRMs, like spotting, foster role play big time. But if you view LRMs as nothing more than kill snakes, lazy players and cowards, maybe Hawken or Titanfall are more your speed. That's all brawl all the time.

Edited by Kjudoon, 13 April 2014 - 01:29 PM.

[Wolfways]

Kjudoon, on 13 April 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

They're not meant to be annoying. They're meant to make you go 'oh crap' just like autocannons and PPCs do. More social proof LRMs are not buffed enough.

LRM's are annoying.
If i have three people at the start of a match saying "LRM boat here, hold locks please" then i know my team is basically starting three mechs down. That's annoying.
Also, i want all weapons to be equally viable. LRM's rarely even hit me never mind kill me. That's annoying.

[Kjudoon]

Wolfways, on 13 April 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

LRM's are annoying.
If i have three people at the start of a match saying "LRM boat here, hold locks please" then i know my team is basically starting three mechs down. That's annoying.
Also, i want all weapons to be equally viable. LRM's rarely even hit me never mind kill me. That's annoying.

That last sentance nails it. But then again, good LRM pilots are worth the annoyance of "hold locks please". I let people know every game that I run the Pain Train good teamplay... aka hit R for locks... is appreciated. Usually I end up in the top third of my team's participation... unless I am in a LRMhatorz-centric team, or people run away from us leaving us unable to fire on mechs 1500m away complaining that we're not helping them.

Just like your turrets can't help you at that range, nor can your LRMboats letting you know that they're here to help you.

At least that's the level of LRM pilots I play with.

Oh, and thank you to all the guys out there who do appreciate, and work with us to win matches. Because playing is more fun when you can win together.

[ShinVector]

El Bandito, on 13 April 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

PGI, you heard the sane majority. Revert the nerf. Give the 175 speed back to the LRMs so it will bring back some role plays for Lights and Mediums.

I think people who actually mostly pilot Light and Mediums deserve to make this comment.
Not assault mech pilots.