775 replies to this topic

[Kusunoki Masashige]

Wolfways, on 17 April 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

Umm...no.

AMS is not supposed to destroy all the missiles in a salvo.

The AC2 range nerf was a ridiculous idea. But LRM range is already nerfed to about half their max range by the amount of cover on maps.

We are the playtesters.

lol EA...the company with the negative Midas touch.

LOL

[Bulletsponge0]

LRMs still OP in my opinion

On today, noticed that about 18-20 mechs in any given 12v12 match are carrying at least the equivalent of LRM 30 or greater. Don't have any exact stats, but it seems that if that high of a % of players are still loading up on the same weapon system, then there must be some sort of disproportional advantage that system is offering.

not to mention, the continued proliferation of LRMs is really sucking the fun out of the game. Impossible to move around the map without hearing anything but "Warning - Incoming missile"...can't get close to LRM boats to kill them because..well, as soon as you try to close the distance all you get is "Warning - Incoming missile"....so the matches now are just a bunch of mechs standing around as LRM boats do nothing but click their mouse buttons..... that is ZERO fun

[Flaming oblivion]

Honestly there is more of a argument for lrms being under powered then over powered , Why? - Firstly if your facing ecm every tonne of lrms and ammo is almost worthless to you if the ecmer is smart ( more so on pugs) You have to maintain line of site till they hit and hope your team holds locks. Whilst your trying to maintain line of site till they hit, Your sending a huge ass beacon up telling everyone where you are.



So not only do you have to hold line of site pray your team knows what there doing hold lock till you hit and keep your eyes all around you. The chances are some ones going to notice the massive rain they have coming there way and if not the message tells them to dive straight into cover. LRMs are out classes by almost every other weapon in game (hell there not even the longest range weapon but still have a minimum range) LRM's come with a pretty hefty weight tag and are one of the only weapons ive come across that can be useless in certain situations.

You fire your ac it hits. you fire your lrm for what ever reason your forced to make a hasty retreat that's it you just wasted ammo.

Lrm's don't need nerfing lol , I'm not going to push it but if anything they need a major buff not necessarily to speed perhaps lower the damage significantly and make it so they track round objects . It may not be a good idea but they need some sort of buff.

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 20 April 2014 - 02:53 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

Flaming oblivion, on 20 April 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

Honestly there is more of a argument for lrms being under powered then over powered , Why? - Firstly if your facing ecm every tonne of lrms and ammo is almost worthless to you if the ecmer is smart ( more so on pugs) You have to maintain line of site till they hit and hope your team holds locks. Whilst your trying to maintain line of site till they hit, Your sending a huge ass beacon up telling everyone where you are.



So not only do you have to hold line of site pray your team knows what there doing hold lock till you hit and keep your eyes all around you. The chances are some ones going to notice the massive rain they have coming there way and if not the message tells them to dive straight into cover. LRMs are out classes by almost every other weapon in game (hell there not even the longest range weapon but still have a minimum range) LRM's come with a pretty hefty weight tag and are one of the only weapons ive come across that can be useless in certain situations.

You fire your ac it hits. you fire your lrm for what ever reason your forced to make a hasty retreat that's it you just wasted ammo.

Lrm's don't need nerfing lol , I'm not going to push it but if anything they need a major buff not necessarily to speed perhaps lower the damage significantly and make it so they track round objects . It may not be a good idea but they need some sort of buff.

I disagree. LRMs are the only weapon in the game where you never actually have to expose yourself to enemy fire in order to effectively fire. AC's are not guaranteed hits..in fact, cover is more effective against ac's than LRMS..those small hills and short buildings that stop ac rounds? well, they don't stop LRMs. and ACs don't become even more effective if a teammate can see the enemy, and ac's don't become even more effective again if that teammate is shining a light on that enemy
(and I don't even use ACs)

as far as the "huge beacon" to where you are? its not as huge of a beacon as ..say...a laser shot is....

but I do agree with you that ECMs are overpowered. They shouldn't be able to cloak an entire lance....and if you have line of sight within a certain distance, the ECM shouldn't work. I've been 100m away from an ECM Raven, and couldn't get a lock to fire ssrm's......that isn't right.

[LuInRei]

Don't forget the terrain layout, that sometimes renders half of the map a no-LRM zone.
This is exactly why, ironically, all the important fighting keeps taking place there.

LRMs are not more OP than any weapon you can boat, but they do require some teamwork to be efficient, though.

Bulletsponge0, on 20 April 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

I disagree. LRMs are the only weapon in the game where you never actually have to expose yourself to enemy fire in order to effectively fire.

This is just wrong, other points are kinda biased. Do you actually play any LRM mech? Do you play it solo, even?

Edited by LuInRei, 20 April 2014 - 03:14 PM.

[Mystere]

Bulletsponge0, on 20 April 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

LRMs still OP in my opinion

On today, noticed that about 18-20 mechs in any given 12v12 match are carrying at least the equivalent of LRM 30 or greater. Don't have any exact stats, but it seems that if that high of a % of players are still loading up on the same weapon system, then there must be some sort of disproportional advantage that system is offering.

not to mention, the continued proliferation of LRMs is really sucking the fun out of the game. Impossible to move around the map without hearing anything but "Warning - Incoming missile"...can't get close to LRM boats to kill them because..well, as soon as you try to close the distance all you get is "Warning - Incoming missile"....so the matches now are just a bunch of mechs standing around as LRM boats do nothing but click their mouse buttons..... that is ZERO fun

The Steering Wheel Underhive must still be teeming with LRMs.

Edited by Mystere, 20 April 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

LuInRei, on 20 April 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

Don't forget the terrain layout, that sometimes renders half of the map a no-LRM zone.
This is exactly why, ironically, all the important fighting keeps taking place there.

LRMs are not more OP than any weapon you can boat, but they do require some teamwork to be efficient, though.






This is just wrong, other points are kinda biased. Do you actually play any LRM mech? Do you play it solo, even?

1. Its not wrong..you don't have to expose yourself to provide effective LRM fire
2. I've tried LRM boats, didn't see the fun in them...good for building up stats, but boring to play

[Kjudoon]

Bulletsponge0, on 20 April 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

1. Its not wrong..you don't have to expose yourself to provide effective LRM fire
2. I've tried LRM boats, didn't see the fun in them...good for building up stats, but boring to play

1. You're right. You don't. You have to use teamwork and that is just good manners and strategy in a team game.

2. Good for you. Be the scout or brawler or sniper. I enjoy being an LRM mech. You have no right to dictate that my gameplay is less worthy than yours.

[Bulletsponge0]

Kjudoon, on 20 April 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

1. You're right. You don't. You have to use teamwork and that is just good manners and strategy in a team game.

2. Good for you. Be the scout or brawler or sniper. I enjoy being an LRM mech. You have no right to dictate that my gameplay is less worthy than yours.

I never said your gameplay is less worthy than mine. I said i found your style of gameplay to be very boring. No need to be so sensitive about it, its just my observation.

[Flaming oblivion]

Nope you don't have to expose yourself if you can keep LoS covered, however on a pug staying behind your team can be dangerous as you cant rely on the pug to help you if you suddenly get harassed by some light or gang jumped on by a few snipers, and with most ofyour tonnage on lrms your not in great shape to be taking on a brawler. Because if he has any sence he'll stay under the minimum range meaning he can use all his weapons you can't.

Which brings me on to my next point if someone is well covered or your covered above you cant fire your lrm without losing the above cover or hoping they leave the cover , Can you fire most other weapons? yes , If your under the minimum range can you fire your lrm's no, Other weps ? yes. If you cant get a lock due to ecm can you fire your lrm? What no again ? What about other weapons wait yes again ?


Wow so you mean in almost every situation most weapons are useable , But in quite a lot of situations lrm's are completely and utterly worthless , man that doesn't seem right.

[Kjudoon]

Bulletsponge0, on 20 April 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

I never said your gameplay is less worthy than mine. I said i found your style of gameplay to be very boring. No need to be so sensitive about it, its just my observation.

I apologize. Many have been less than polite about similar statements. I reacted with guard up.

[Bulletsponge0]

Kjudoon, on 20 April 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

I apologize. Many have been less than polite about similar statements. I reacted with guard up.

no problem...its the internet afterall.

and Location: Wisconsin....you a Cheesehead? Badger fan? Packer fan?

Flaming oblivion, on 20 April 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

Nope you don't have to expose yourself if you can keep LoS covered, however on a pug staying behind your team can be dangerous as you cant rely on the pug to help you if you suddenly get harassed by some light or gang jumped on by a few snipers, and with most ofyour tonnage on lrms your not in great shape to be taking on a brawler. Because if he has any sence he'll stay under the minimum range meaning he can use all his weapons you can't.

Which brings me on to my next point if someone is well covered or your covered above you cant fire your lrm without losing the above cover or hoping they leave the cover , Can you fire most other weapons? yes , If your under the minimum range can you fire your lrm's no, Other weps ? yes. If you cant get a lock due to ecm can you fire your lrm? What no again ? What about other weapons wait yes again ?


Wow so you mean in almost every situation most weapons are useable , But in quite a lot of situations lrm's are completely and utterly worthless , man that doesn't seem right.

You can make a long list of situations for every weapon where they are useless...its not an exclusive trait to LRMs

[Gyrok]

Kjudoon, on 20 April 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

1. You're right. You don't. You have to use teamwork and that is just good manners and strategy in a team game.

2. Good for you. Be the scout or brawler or sniper. I enjoy being an LRM mech. You have no right to dictate that my gameplay is less worthy than yours.

It can be proven it takes far less skill to play LRM boats though. This is, regardless of what anyone wants to hear, a FPS title. That means First Person Shooter, in case there was some confusion.

The competitive crowd feels (rightly so) that there is no skill in hold a reticle over a red box someone else did the work to target and waiting for it to turn red and click.

My little brother was getting into this game, and his internet connection was pure rubbish. His ping was over 200...he could not hit ANYTHING with ACs/PPCs/SRMs or even most lasers.

What could he hit targets with? SSRMs and LRMs, that was it. In fact, as a new player, he noticed that it took *virtually* no skill to play LRMs.

Now, you can sit back and argue positioning and what have you...but at the end of all the poppycock about it takes skill to play LRMs, this is what you have left:

-LRMs and Streaks are the only 2 weapons in the game that track targets

Now, of those 2:

-LRMs are the ONLY weapon in game which do not require you to expose yourself to your target to hit them.

Argue all you want about ACs/PPCs but the fact is, you have to risk taking fire to take the shot, and you have to have the skill to acquire targets quickly and fire quickly if you are going to be worth anything doing it.

When we have new players in the clan in 12 mans, they run the token missle boat because it is typically all they can be marginally effective at...(unless they have already been exposed to some modicum of training in a certain chassis or certain role already...)

[Flaming oblivion]

I'm getting frustrated by this thread so i'm going to leave it safe in the knowledge its unlikely a lrm nerf will happen since anyone knows there weak already.

[Kjudoon]

Oh yah, ya betcha! I'm a Cheesehead, born and bred, dontcha know dere hey! Packers very much a fan. Badgers... meh... I like Bucky but don't follow him as much as my extended family and friends.

[Bulletsponge0]

Kjudoon, on 20 April 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

Oh yah, ya betcha! I'm a Cheesehead, born and bred, dontcha know dere hey! Packers very much a fan. Badgers... meh... I like Bucky but don't follow him as much as my extended family and friends.

(don't know how to embed video, but...)

Go Pack Go!!!!

On Wisconsin!!

Cheesehead born and raised....but unfortunately I no longer reside in the right hand of god.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

It can be proven it takes far less skill to play LRM boats though. This is, regardless of what anyone wants to hear, a FPS title. That means First Person Shooter, in case there was some confusion.

MWO was not billed as just a First Person Shooter. If it was, I'd never have played this game. It was billed as a "THINKING MAN'S FPS". That means it's not all about the pavlov twitch... or so we were led to beleive. Now that we see this isn't the case, many are leaving.

Quote

The competitive crowd feels (rightly so) that there is no skill in hold a reticle over a red box someone else did the work to target and waiting for it to turn red and click.

Wrongly so. People who think that do not play good LRM boats. I know this because I've watched them post video of how 'awesome' they are... and they're not. They're okay to decent. If you want this game only for the Export Pavlov twitch group, then you won't have 80% of the community joining them.

Quote

My little brother was getting into this game, and his internet connection was pure rubbish. His ping was over 200...he could not hit ANYTHING with ACs/PPCs/SRMs or even most lasers.

I'm sorry to hear that. My FPS is between 5-20 at best. I play LRMs because that's what my computer can handle and I do so quite well. It is also why I quit 12man play because it's all brawltardery and poptarts because LRMs are deliberately downgraded to turn down the volume of the twitch monkey's whining. LRMs require more situational awareness, patience and teamwork than every other weapon in the game. Spotters should get a LOT more XP for the work they do if LRMs were actually balanced.

Quote

What could he hit targets with? SSRMs and LRMs, that was it. In fact, as a new player, he noticed that it took *virtually* no skill to play LRMs.

Twitch isn't skill. It's instinct. It takes far less twitch to work SSRMs and LRMs, but takes more intelligence to use them well. More than even Gauss Rifles which is the only ballistic that takes real skill to use because you have to anticipate and use patience and awareness, not just reflex.

Quote

Now, you can sit back and argue positioning and what have you...but at the end of all the poppycock about it takes skill to play LRMs, this is what you have left:

-LRMs and Streaks are the only 2 weapons in the game that track targets

So? ACs are the only weapons that do pinpoint damage other than PPCs. Maybe LRMs should get Pinpoint damage too. Or should we make guided ACs? Both are possible. I know indirect ballistics should be put into the game with mech mortars which are lore and would end poptarting fast.

Quote

-LRMs are the ONLY weapon in game which do not require you to expose yourself to your target to hit them.

and? This is a non-argument. Cover is OP. Teamwork is OP. Thinking is OP.

Blah.

If I have LRMs from LOS, I have to wait 2 seconds for a lock, 3-6 seconds of flight time, and THEN you can pull back. You gonna do that if you can't pop out and fire and get back in cover in 2 seconds, you don't do it. So cry me a river.

Quote

Argue all you want about ACs/PPCs but the fact is, you have to risk taking fire to take the shot, and you have to have the skill to acquire targets quickly and fire quickly if you are going to be worth anything doing it.

... says the QQpoptarter.

Quote

When we have new players in the clan in 12 mans, they run the token missle boat because it is typically all they can be marginally effective at...(unless they have already been exposed to some modicum of training in a certain chassis or certain role already...)

Artificially nerfed weapon system is still nerfed weapon system. If LRMs were balanced, you'd see them able to win a 12man 50% of the time against the poptart AC/PPC meta. Till then, they are unbalanced.


Go siddown.

[Karmen Baric]

LRMs are still a little overpowered, for what they are, which is no skill required to use weapons. They not need LOS, they have many boosts including, "light" mech spotters, TAG, Advanced Target Decay Module, and can hit without coming under fire from any enemy. They go over small to medium building, hills and do track when your mech not visible for a period of time (this is too much).

When my 4 year son can play and get kills in a LRM boat, then this says to me that is way too easy and destructive to be real. (this he cannot do in non LRM/Streak mecha).

LRM = No skill, lotsa damage.

[Lyoto Machida]

Karmen Baric, on 20 April 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

LRMs are still a little overpowered, for what they are, which is no skill required to use weapons. They not need LOS, they have many boosts including, "light" mech spotters, TAG, Advanced Target Decay Module, and can hit without coming under fire from any enemy. They go over small to medium building, hills and do track when your mech not visible for a period of time (this is too much).

When my 4 year son can play and get kills in a LRM boat, then this says to me that is way too easy and destructive to be real. (this he cannot do in non LRM/Streak mecha).

LRM = No skill, lotsa damage.

Didn't want to post on your real account?

Somehow, I'm finding your anecdote about your 4 year old kid killing mechs hard to believe. Or maybe you're in a REALLY low ELO bracket.

[ShinVector]

Lyoto Machida, on 20 April 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

Didn't want to post on your real account?

Somehow, I'm finding your anecdote about your 4 year old kid killing mechs hard to believe. Or maybe you're in a REALLY low ELO bracket.

Its ok... I feel like at times the tides are turning.... Had matches against team that simply had too much LRM trash versus people who can actually brawl...
Make these people feel stupid feel stupid for not being able to defend themselves once the fight brought right in front of them. (especially the assault super LRM boat variant)

Taking up an assault slot and having a play style that is 'Not to share damage with the team' is a crime against team play.
Hope people will learn.