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Really? C-Bills Aren't Low Enough?

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#121 Pjwned

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 11:09 PM

I've been seeing a couple 160k c-bill matches for myself lately when playing my jenner but I only get that much from NARC'ing everything, getting a bunch of spot assists, putting an amazing UAV down which costs 40k c-bills anyway, getting kill assists on everything, getting some savior kills, etc. That's only on a win as well, and most matches outside of my jenner are considerably less and I'm lucky to break 110k even in a great match.

Even when I'm earning 150k+ c-bills (which usually means I spent 40k on a UAV anyways) I still can't get enough at a decent rate to try out new heavier mechs because of the absurd grinding involved. Every mech above 55 tons costs a LOT, and if I want my mech to not be a death trap I have to pay the ridiculous DHS tax of 1.5m c-bills.

I want to experiment with more mechs but the grinding drives me away, even trying out new light mechs is a pain in the ass because of it and it definitely gets boring and tiresome.

Edited by Pjwned, 26 March 2014 - 11:10 PM.


#122 _Comrade_

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 11:28 PM

That's a good payday I would be happy with that. And really why do you need a lot of c bills anyways

Edited by Grimwill, 26 March 2014 - 11:29 PM.


#123 Onmyoudo

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 01:56 AM

View PostGrimwill, on 26 March 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

That's a good payday I would be happy with that. And really why do you need a lot of c bills anyways


Because, as has been mentioned several times in this thread already, buying mechs is the only content this game has.

To the people posting screenshots, especially Warblood, you can see that those are truly exceptional games, right? Your teams got sweet f.a. for those matches, 'cause you took all the money. That's fine, you did great and deserved the pay, but it's a huge fallacy to say "look how well I did, hence everything is fine for everyone". I'm not a bad player and according to my stats I earn on average 105k c-bills a match, which is above average for the game. Your outlier games prove nothing.

#124 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 03:31 AM

View PostWhy Run, on 26 March 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

Team enough? Fine, Tickle a few, then kill a lance. Stupid ass reward system, since I did not "help" any more than the first game, but oh well. Poor new players. (PS the missing stats were just the kills, assists and win bonus's)

Posted Image

As to SS, I'm too low tech to know that, but thanks, I'll check those out...

Exactly what We have been saying, More assists=More money. Team play pays better then being "The Hero"

Also. 21C-bills per point of damage judging by your effort: 17598/838=21

#125 WarHippy

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 08:07 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 27 March 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

Exactly what We have been saying, More assists=More money. Team play pays better then being "The Hero"

Also. 21C-bills per point of damage judging by your effort: 17598/838=21


Being "The Hero" and being a team player are not mutually exclusive, and why I think the way they score things is ridiculous. ^_^

#126 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 08:40 AM

View PostWarHippy, on 27 March 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:


Being "The Hero" and being a team player are not mutually exclusive, and why I think the way they score things is ridiculous. ^_^

Do you ever read about "Chesty" Puller's Marines? I will disagree, heroes stand out from the crowd.

AS a side note... I had no idea some of my D&D buddies had stolen a quote from Chesty

Quote

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things."


#127 WarHippy

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:02 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 27 March 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Do you ever read about "Chesty" Puller's Marines? I will disagree, heroes stand out from the crowd.

AS a side note... I had no idea some of my D&D buddies had stolen a quote from Chesty


He was still a team player, and why I said they are not mutually exclusive. All of his actions that saved other marines, or had him reorganizing his battalion to come to the aid of other battalions that were pinned down make him and his marines a stand out from the crowd and him a truly exemplary officer. The thing is he wasn't doing it for personal glory he was doing what needed to be done, and that very much is the sign of a Hero and "team player".

I love that quote.

#128 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:06 AM

View PostWarHippy, on 27 March 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:


He was still a team player, and why I said they are not mutually exclusive. All of his actions that saved other marines, or had him reorganizing his battalion to come to the aid of other battalions that were pinned down make him and his marines a stand out from the crowd and him a truly exemplary officer. The thing is he wasn't doing it for personal glory he was doing what needed to be done, and that very much is the sign of a Hero and "team player".

I love that quote.

Odd... As a Marine we put HIM on the pedestal The legend is HIS actions not his commands. Just sayin'

And the funny thing is I didn't know I was quoting him before I was a Marine or even after! Kinda shameful!

#129 M4NTiC0R3X

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:10 AM

Premium + mech bonus + TAG + LRMs + UAV = good amount. No premium, no mech bonus and a hard loss is next to nothing.

I think the losers should get paid more, honestly, that's how herp derp this game can be.

#130 DaZur

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:18 AM

View PostWarHippy, on 27 March 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:


Being "The Hero" and being a team player are not mutually exclusive, and why I think the way they score things is ridiculous. ^_^

You have to remember the present compensatory mechanic is not a 1-to-1 payout. It's also structured to essentially be a carrot & stick devise to encourage team play...

If you recall in CB before they added ancillary pay bonuses, the mechanic was a linear payout and play breakdown occurred because it was a race to net the most kills and invoke the most damage.

That said it can be said that the change only marginally worked because players still focus way to much on personal achievement over the teams.

I've said elsewhere... If PGI axed the KDR metric, it would instantly change the inclination to be more team centric versus individual. -_-

#131 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:29 AM

View PostM4NTiC0R3X, on 27 March 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Premium + mech bonus + TAG + LRMs + UAV = good amount. No premium, no mech bonus and a hard loss is next to nothing.

I think the losers should get paid more, honestly, that's how herp derp this game can be.

You know the loser in war rarely gets to collect a check, I know its a game and all...

#132 WarHippy

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:38 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 27 March 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

Odd... As a Marine we put HIM on the pedestal The legend is HIS actions not his commands. Just sayin'

And the funny thing is I didn't know I was quoting him before I was a Marine or even after! Kinda shameful!


By all means put the man on a pedestal he was indeed a hero, but his actions were in support of his fellow soldiers not some singular desire for personal glory where he told everyone else to stay home because he's got this. Saving your fellow soldiers/players through your own herculean effort does not make you any less part of the team. His example if anything makes it look like things are backwards here with regard to rewards. If we applied the same thinking to the marines you would be putting his soldiers on the pedestal and ignore his contributions because being a team player is more valued than his personal achievements.

#133 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:42 AM

View PostWarHippy, on 27 March 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:


By all means put the man on a pedestal he was indeed a hero, but his actions were in support of his fellow soldiers not some singular desire for personal glory where he told everyone else to stay home because he's got this. Saving your fellow soldiers/players through your own herculean effort does not make you any less part of the team. His example if anything makes it look like things are backwards here with regard to rewards. If we applied the same thinking to the marines you would be putting his soldiers on the pedestal and ignore his contributions because being a team player is more valued than his personal achievements.
This is how we had the myth relayed to us! -_- The way we heard the stories he was a maverick who could defeat battalions with a toothpick and a John Wayne.

Linked for those unfamiliar with the device! :ph34r:

His achievements would not have happened without the coordinated efforts of his subordinates. ^_^

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 March 2014 - 09:47 AM.


#134 Fut

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 10:03 AM

View PostWhy Run, on 26 March 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Fut - you forget, you probably earned most of those Cbills in the double or more cbill world pre-nerf...


"Most of those Cbills"? I wasn't the one saying that I'm sitting on hundreds of Millions of Cbills.

I currently have around 9.5 million CB, and I own 4 Mechs (one of them being the Freebee Cent that was given away recently, and I have yet to even sit in the cockpit). For me, the fun of the game is becoming the best pilot I can in my chosen Mech. My Cbills are going towards outfitting them fully with the engines and modules I want for each.

The fact that 'so many' people want more Cbill rewards/easier Cbill accumilation is just showing how a consumer driven society is warping the mentality of the average person. It's not fun to just play the game - It's only fun when you buy new toys.

Purchase. Consume. You are happy. Purchase faster. Consume more. You are having fun. Purchase some more!

"MWO is boring, maybe if I work towards getting 'Mech X' it'll be more fun"
Plays the game for a week, building up enough CB to purchase the new Mech. A few days pass...
"MWO is boring, maybe if I work towards getting 'Mech Y' it'll be more fun"
Plays the game for a week, building up enough CB to purchase the new Mech. A few days pass...
"MWO is boring, maybe if I work towards getting 'Mech Z' it'll be more fun"

So when exactly will the game be fun to just play? When you have all the Mechs purchased, will things just miraculously change?

Would you prefer if there were no Cbills at all, and people could just pick any Mech they wanted at any time? There'd be no "Grind" for people to complain about, everybody would be happy, the game would be a huge success... right?

Edited by Fut, 27 March 2014 - 10:22 AM.


#135 Rokuzachi

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 10:39 AM

No, they aren't low enough. At least not enough for failure. Failure should be punished more because right now it's too easy to fail upwards in this game.

Being able to pull 100-200k out of a win in a non-hero mech WITHOUT premium is pretty damn good. The cash grind in this game is pretty short, as long as you don't suck. And even if you do, it's still shorter than it should be.

#136 WarHippy

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 10:41 AM

View PostFut, on 27 March 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:


"Most of those Cbills"? I wasn't the one saying that I'm sitting on hundreds of Millions of Cbills.

I currently have around 9.5 million CB, and I own 4 Mechs (one of them being the Freebee Cent that was given away recently, and I have yet to even sit in the cockpit). For me, the fun of the game is becoming the best pilot I can in my chosen Mech. My Cbills are going towards outfitting them fully with the engines and modules I want for each.

Not everyone is going to enjoy playing the same 4 mechs as you do. It has been said before but fun is subjective, and people have different goals and requirements to achieve that.

View PostFut, on 27 March 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

The fact that 'so many' people want more Cbill rewards/easier Cbill accumilation is just showing how a consumer driven society is warping the mentality of the average person. It's not fun to just play the game - It's only fun when you buy new toys.

Purchase. Consume. You are happy. Purchase faster. Consume. You are having fun. Purchase some more!
Seems to me what is warping the mentality of the average person is their need to be so judgmental of what everyone else is doing. If someone wants to buy a new phone every year and they can afford it then more power to them. If you are fine with playing kick the can for your entertainment why rain on the parade of the guy who decided to buy a Playstation for his entertainment. I'm sure if you are so concerned about this consumerist society I can find you a nice hippie commune to live in, but we should have that conversation on some political forum instead of a gaming forum.

View PostFut, on 27 March 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

"MWO is boring, maybe if I work towards getting 'Mech X' it'll be more fun"
Plays the game for a week, building up enough CB to purchase the new Mech. A few days pass...
"MWO is boring, maybe if I work towards getting 'Mech Y' it'll be more fun"
Plays the game for a week, building up enough CB to purchase the new Mech. A few days pass...
"MWO is boring, maybe if I work towards getting 'Mech Z' it'll be more fun"

So when exactly will the game be fun to just play? When you have all the Mechs purchased, will things just miraculously change?
There is more to a game than just playing it. A lot can be said for the effort some people put into organizing groups of players into guilds/clans/etc., or building a fan site, or any number of other things. People do those things in part because they are fun for them, and because the game has created a foundation for them to expand their enjoyment beyond just playing it. Some people like to collect things, which in turn gives them more incentive to play. Everyone has different things that they enjoy that others may not, but that doesn't mean what they enjoy doesn't have merit just because you don't agree. Look at video games in general. Many people out in the world look down on gamers because they feel it is juvenile, and a waste of time and energy. Here we are gaming despite what others say, and yet you do exactly the same thing those other people do by looking down on others who enjoy the same thing you do but in a different way.

View PostFut, on 27 March 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Would you prefer if there were no Cbills at all, and people could just pick any Mech they wanted at any time? There'd be no "Grind" for people to complain about, everybody would be happy, the game would be a huge success... right?
No, I don't want for there to be no C-bills at all, but I also don't want what I consider to be an unreasonable time investment to infringe on my ability to have as much fun as I can. Finding a balance between time investment and reward is important for making me want to spend money rather than feel forced to spend money.

#137 Lyoto Machida

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 10:50 AM

View PostFut, on 27 March 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:


"Most of those Cbills"? I wasn't the one saying that I'm sitting on hundreds of Millions of Cbills.

I currently have around 9.5 million CB, and I own 4 Mechs (one of them being the Freebee Cent that was given away recently, and I have yet to even sit in the cockpit). For me, the fun of the game is becoming the best pilot I can in my chosen Mech. My Cbills are going towards outfitting them fully with the engines and modules I want for each.

The fact that 'so many' people want more Cbill rewards/easier Cbill accumilation is just showing how a consumer driven society is warping the mentality of the average person. It's not fun to just play the game - It's only fun when you buy new toys.

Purchase. Consume. You are happy. Purchase faster. Consume more. You are having fun. Purchase some more!

"MWO is boring, maybe if I work towards getting 'Mech X' it'll be more fun"
Plays the game for a week, building up enough CB to purchase the new Mech. A few days pass...
"MWO is boring, maybe if I work towards getting 'Mech Y' it'll be more fun"
Plays the game for a week, building up enough CB to purchase the new Mech. A few days pass...
"MWO is boring, maybe if I work towards getting 'Mech Z' it'll be more fun"

So when exactly will the game be fun to just play? When you have all the Mechs purchased, will things just miraculously change?

Would you prefer if there were no Cbills at all, and people could just pick any Mech they wanted at any time? There'd be no "Grind" for people to complain about, everybody would be happy, the game would be a huge success... right?


There are some guys out there with a 2.5+ KDR...I'll never get to that level simply because I'd get bored of only driving mechs I'm good at. I'm trying to at least elite every mech I own and that brings down your KDR (not that it's the only metric to measure a good pilot by) because of the early grind.

Collecting every mech in the game isn't my goal...what WOULD be nice is if these meaningless games had a purpose. Something like some sort of warfare that the community as a whole could partake in...

I'm not sure such a thing is even capable in gaming in 2014. Perhaps when we get to 2021, someone will finally come up with a concept like that and bring it to fruition. We'll probably see North and South Korea get back together first though.

#138 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 10:55 AM

View PostWarHippy, on 27 March 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

Not everyone is going to enjoy playing the same 4 mechs as you do. It has been said before but fun is subjective, and people have different goals and requirements to achieve that.
*SNIP*
No, I don't want for there to be no C-bills at all, but I also don't want what I consider to be an unreasonable time investment to infringe on my ability to have as much fun as I can. Finding a balance between time investment and reward is important for making me want to spend money rather than feel forced to spend money.
Which unfortunately will infringe on lil Bobby or Billy Joe Jrs idea of what fun is. And in one post you changed from Its different for each person to "what I want."

So how does PGI make You, Me & Fut all happy without upsetting Khobai, StJobe & Bishop Steiner? :lol:

The 6 of us don't even agree on what is/isn't fun! :rolleyes:

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 March 2014 - 10:55 AM.


#139 WarHippy

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 11:07 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 27 March 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

Which unfortunately will infringe on lil Bobby or Billy Joe Jrs idea of what fun is. And in one post you changed from Its different for each person to "what I want."

So how does PGI make You, Me & Fut all happy without upsetting Khobai, StJobe & Bishop Steiner? :mellow:

The 6 of us don't even agree on what is/isn't fun! :rolleyes:


That's just it I don't know, but what I do know is that there were a lot less complaints about income before the pay cut they introduced with 12v12. So at the very least if they put it back to where it was I would shutup about it and be happy without it having any effect on Fut and his desire to only own 4 mechs. I know everyone can't be made happy, but I fail to see the reason Fut and others are so adamant about keeping things as is when changing it would increase others enjoyment while having no effect on his. Seems rather petty, and its not that I am accusing Fut or anyone else of being petty it just doesn't compute for me. I just don't understand the mindset. :lol:

#140 Fut

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 11:08 AM

View PostWarHippy, on 27 March 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

Not everyone is going to enjoy playing the same 4 mechs as you do. It has been said before but fun is subjective, and people have different goals and requirements to achieve that.
Seems to me what is warping the mentality of the average person is their need to be so judgmental of what everyone else is doing. If someone wants to buy a new phone every year and they can afford it then more power to them. If you are fine with playing kick the can for your entertainment why rain on the parade of the guy who decided to buy a Playstation for his entertainment.

[...]

Some people like to collect things, which in turn gives them more incentive to play. Everyone has different things that they enjoy that others may not, but that doesn't mean what they enjoy doesn't have merit just because you don't agree.


My apologies if I'm coming off as judgmental. That was never my intention.
Also, I fully agree that fun is subjective - different strokes for different folk and all that jazz. So the issue really, is finding that delicate balance.

There's a group of people who think that the current Cbill reward system is fine, and that increasing these rewards would make the game feel too easy, as Mechs will be much quicker to acquire. Then there's the other group, who think the exact opposite.

The part that I get hung up on though, is that the game fully allows you to have your fun (ie. Collecting dem Mechs!), but you want to alter it because you're not having fun fast enough. So the proposed solution is to water the game down for everybody so that some people can fill their garage up faster.

Like I said before, I'm not against people collecting Mechs if that's what they enjoy doing. Have at it, collect them all.
If it feels like it's taking a bit too long, that's what MC purchases are for. There's no need to tweak the earnings.

Although this might kill my argument, my main reasoning for this line of thought, is basically because Mechwarriors were never meant to be fat cats with fully stocked garages housing a full regiment of Mechs. To allow people to become so immensely wealthy, is breaking the immersion and feel of the game.

Also, if there ever comes a time where R&R, logistics of C/FW travel are introduced, it won't even matter because most people will be insanely wealthy.
"Hmm.. Fully repair Atlas for 10mil CB?" Checks bank account - 1 Billion Cbills "Sure, do it."

Hate to compare to other games, but one of the things that makes EVE such an amazing game is the fact that they have a fully developed economy. Losing a ship actually means something in that game (means a lot depending on what ship you were in) because money isn't just handed out all loosey-goosey.

Lastly, I realize I'm touching on some "what ifs" here, but I feel that looking at the big picture usually helps with sorting out the finer details.

View PostWarHippy, on 27 March 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

I'm sure if you are so concerned about this consumerist society I can find you a nice hippie commune to live in, but we should have that conversation on some political forum instead of a gaming forum.

Running from the problem and hiding isn't the answer. As much as I'd dig living in such a place, more good can be done from within this messed up system. Thanks for the offer all the same.

Do the MWO forums not have a political sub-forum? Where are the Devs when we need them?

Edited by Fut, 27 March 2014 - 11:09 AM.






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