70 replies to this topic

[DeathlyEyes]

All PGI needed to do was either increase DPS of brawling weapons or reduce DPS of sniper weapons to achieve what they wanted. They wanted to make it so you couldn't brawl with pop sniping Victors. What they achieved is making it so you can't brawl with Victors. They took a product they sold to people for money and made it perform worse by about 20%. The whole situation is utterly ridiculous. I am going to make a new thread with a more appropriate name with a more straightforward criticism so they might actually be able to find it.

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 01 April 2014 - 04:30 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 01 April 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

or reduce DPS of sniper weapons to achieve what they wanted.

They did exactly this by increasing PPC heat and giving Gauss the charge mechanic.

[990Dreams]

Dear OP,

My Victor is one of my best Mechs and has claimed many Mechs (that are now just useless hunks of steel) regardless of what PGI tweaks to the equipment I have on it.

Sincerely,

A guy who thinks you haven't tried hard enough

Edited by DavidHurricane, 01 April 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[Skull Leader2]

Well I feel moderately validated in my feelings. Even people telling me to get over it mention they just switched mechs to suit their needs. Of course the whole point of his was that it was a totally unnecessary balancing issue.

[DeathlyEyes]

ugrakarma, on 01 April 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

They did exactly this by increasing PPC heat and giving Gauss the charge mechanic.

Dual AC5 dual PPC Victor outputs 11.66 DPS while a 9 medium laser mech only outputs 11.25 and suffers from ghost heat. SRMs are broken and other brawlers don't carry many more Autocannons than the 2 found on the "meta" Victor. Really there is no real brawling alternative. Dual AC20s even marginally output more DPS than the AC5 while sacrificing range. The only mechs that can even carry that only carry Dual AC20s and only output 10 DPS. Furthermore the gauss rifle charge mechanic just made it slower for me to fire. Personally all it did was removed my ability to counter snipe another sniper using cover. They could have simply increased the charge time and got the same result.

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 01 April 2014 - 04:56 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I have not played the Victor yet post patch, but I will say this...

I loved he Victor because it was an Assault mech with the speed of a Heavy. I could load it up with a huge engine and still equip 2 LLasers and 1 A/C20. It had good Assault armor values too.

It was fast, fairly nimble (like a slower Heavy) and maintained assault like armor.

In hind site, the Victor probably needed to be toned down a bit. An Assault should behave like an Assault and not a Heavy.

I haven't played the Victor post patch so I don't know how BAD the nerf was, but I can understand why some people would be upset. They had a real prime performing Assault that now has been hit by the nerf hammer. Large or a small change, they aren't going to be happy.

Happens to a lot of mechs though. I like the Hunch "Swayback" 4P, and that mech was hit with the nerf hammer too. There was a time when all 9MLasers could be fired without ghost heat. Someone at PGI thought the Swayback was too powerful, so...nerf. Now you can't fire more than 6 without suffering major heat penalties.

Point is, I adapted and my Swayback is still powerful and I till use it (Firing 6 then 3 lasers in succession). I am sure the Victor can be adapted to and the speed and maneuverability nerf can be adjusted for. Given a few days, pilots will be used to it.

Now I should take out the Victor and see if I spewed a whole bunch of crap, or if the change is small and people are just over-reacting.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 01 April 2014 - 05:06 PM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

FupDup, on 30 March 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

I haven't yet tested out the VTR after the nerf, but what I will say is that on paper it seems like the nerf gun missed its target. A torso twisting/turning nerf primarily makes the mech weaker in close quarters combat. The mech's FoTM loadouts were all built around long-range alpha striking while airborne. The poptarting effectiveness -- the thing that made the VTR a FoTM mech -- hasn't been changed. All that changed is that the mech is now weaker in the role it was originally designed to fulfill in Battletech and Tabletop: brawling.

Not everyone used them as poptarts. I ran mine as close support mechs, or gank mechs on preoccupied opponents, and my loadout was almost always some large lasers, an ac20 and streaks...This mech was pretty much a big beefy heavy mech, and I played it as such. There was nothing wrong with the Victor being maneuverable, it is the BARE minimum weight for an assault and should be. I has NO armor compared to the other assaults, so your only defence was maneuverability.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Finnally tried the Victor out. Seems more like a Battlemaster now (Battlemaster with a 340 STD engine). The Victor is now more inline with other Assaults.

Overall it probably is a descent enough balance nerf. Handling like a Battlemaster is about right. Sure the BM is 5 tons heavier, but a Shadow Hawk is 5 tons heavier than a Hunch and they can b as fast and maneuverable as each other.

It was a nerf that should have happened a long time ago (shortly after the mech launched). If it happened near the mech's launch, we wouldn't be having these posts right now. Instead PGI waited till the pilots had months of practice and experience with the mech before nerfing it. They really should have addressed this earlier to avoid alienating some Victor pilot customers.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 01 April 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

Dual AC5 dual PPC Victor outputs 11.66 DPS while a 9 medium laser mech only outputs 11.25 and suffers from ghost heat. SRMs are broken and other brawlers don't carry many more Autocannons than the 2 found on the "meta" Victor. Really there is no real brawling alternative. Dual AC20s even marginally output more DPS than the AC5 while sacrificing range. The only mechs that can even carry that only carry Dual AC20s and only output 10 DPS. Furthermore the gauss rifle charge mechanic just made it slower for me to fire. Personally all it did was removed my ability to counter snipe another sniper using cover. They could have simply increased the charge time and got the same result.

I think your logic is a bit flawed... You are using maximum DPS and forget the high heat PPC's are generating. You in fact are disliking the pinpoint damage it seems. Let's take for example a brawler Dragon Slayer (http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f9ff16273147fa0) and a meta Dragon Slayer (http://mwo.smurfy-ne...06792ec2b7fcc9f). The DPS difference is very noticable. The brawler has 7.89 dmg/s without overheating under 270m while the meta build has 5.37 dmg/s 90-540m. But you know, theoretical DPS is not important when talking about pinpoint damage, especially a PPC AC build. When you reach that high heat, you need to cool off while the brawler can dish out constant damage. On the other hand the poptart can deal 30 damage pinpoint up to 540 meters. This means 5-6 shots to VTR CT and it's down.

If you take a real dedicated brawler and not my DS build for pugs, it will have an AC/20 equipped. Now the brawler has 20 pinpoint damage up close plus SRMs and some lasers opposed to metaboy's 30 high heat pinpoint. At 270 meters the brawler wins assuming the skill level is the same.

Yeah the SRM's have problems, but I think if they worked, the balance between (jumpjet equipped) brawlers and ac5/ppc builds would be quite right after the JJ adjustments... Of course the brawlers need to get in range but I've seen it happen lot of times.

[Pizza Knight]

Skull Leader2, on 30 March 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

Thank you PGI. Thank you so much for adjusting my Victor mech. I was really getting tired of having a mech that had a modicum of individuality and a semblance of a role. I'm sure that fixing the Victor mech was a high priority on your massive list of issues to work on. Since your change I have been able to free up so many tons of space. Who needs a big fast engine anymore when the Victor should be piloted like a big hulking slow Atlas. Jump Jets? Don't need those anymore either. Sure they are handy every now and then but the Victor isn't for brawling of jumping now. Sure the Victor weights 10-20 tons less than most of the assaults but who cares. It is just a slightly lighter and much less well armed Highlander now. Its a nice challenge to pilot a mech that is pound for pound undergunned by all mechs in it's weight class and most in the class below it.


Signed,

Peeved off Former Victor pilot.


P.S. Thanks for the big changes and stat reset at the same time. Glad to see my KDR after hundreds of matches go from 1.6 to 0.52 since the changes.

I agree. The victor sucks now. Since the patch, I have seen just one victor in about 10 games.

[Varent]

Skull Leader2, on 30 March 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the majority of Victor pilots agree with me from what I can tell from forums and talking to people. The changes were enough to change how the mech handles and is used. Maybe they wouldn't make a difference on an Atlas or the other assaults because of they were already limited, but the Victor has always been meant to be an inbetween from Assaults and Heavies.

the victor was far too mobile for an assault mech, was the perfect chasis for a jump sniper, and had one of the strongest win ratios of any chasis overall.

Why in gods green earth and on what foundation are you complaining about a nerf to it?

Im surprised they didnt nerf it sooner.

[KharnZor]

Pizza Night, on 01 April 2014 - 08:34 PM, said:

I agree. The victor sucks now. Since the patch, I have seen just one victor in about 10 games.

[Lyoto Machida]

Pizza Night, on 01 April 2014 - 08:34 PM, said:

I agree. The victor sucks now. Since the patch, I have seen just one victor in about 10 games.

Did you make this account just to say that?

[Col Jaime Wolf]

ugrakarma, on 01 April 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

I think your logic is a bit flawed... You are using maximum DPS and forget the high heat PPC's are generating. You in fact are disliking the pinpoint damage it seems. Let's take for example a brawler Dragon Slayer (http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f9ff16273147fa0) and a meta Dragon Slayer (http://mwo.smurfy-ne...06792ec2b7fcc9f). The DPS difference is very noticable. The brawler has 7.89 dmg/s without overheating under 270m while the meta build has 5.37 dmg/s 90-540m. But you know, theoretical DPS is not important when talking about pinpoint damage, especially a PPC AC build. When you reach that high heat, you need to cool off while the brawler can dish out constant damage. On the other hand the poptart can deal 30 damage pinpoint up to 540 meters. This means 5-6 shots to VTR CT and it's down.

If you take a real dedicated brawler and not my DS build for pugs, it will have an AC/20 equipped. Now the brawler has 20 pinpoint damage up close plus SRMs and some lasers opposed to metaboy's 30 high heat pinpoint. At 270 meters the brawler wins assuming the skill level is the same.

Yeah the SRM's have problems, but I think if they worked, the balance between (jumpjet equipped) brawlers and ac5/ppc builds would be quite right after the JJ adjustments... Of course the brawlers need to get in range but I've seen it happen lot of times.

1 DS cant use an AC20

2 ur builds suck sry so does every DS build that puts the PPC's in the right torso, same problem as the HGN 733P. to much on one side = super crappy build that gets targeted on one side.

3 DS and all victors should only pack a SRM 6, 4, 2 bc that's all the missile slots, and streaks work better in every victor all the time even before the torso nerf (maybe that's why im not noticing it? because i always used the arms for big guns and the torso slots for streaks?)

4 don't give advise on builds if that's an example of what you would run, you don't even use the energy slot in DS arm so.....


don't speak. plx its better that way.

cuz like....
this is what you should be sniping in

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c7ef8a0937201d9

cuz i love how all "pop tards" use ppcs....... if your a real sniper snipe already stop ****** around with PPC's for pot shots it is just a lack of actual skill. same for those that claim you cant shoot anything but "ppcs and ac's" while jetting, lasers work just as well just stop being lazy and learn to aim on target.

and this is the real meta mech that can actually face off and get 4+ kills in a match

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0f4a730f3b99248

proof

http://www.twitch.tv...rac/b/504865048


the 30+ alpha is way overrated and works against you more then helps, run light, run cool, run fast. don't be a nub

Edited by Mellifluer, 02 April 2014 - 12:59 AM.

[El Bandito]

I welcome the Victor nerf, and I say that as someone who's sole hero mech is the Dragon Slayer.

[Shiro Matsumoto]

Monkey Lover, on 30 March 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

Its a lrm boat now

Not even that, the tube count seems more made for SRMs, and there are better Assaults for this

@OP: i feel yer pain.. its just cumbersome now.

[Bishop Steiner]

Maggiman, on 30 March 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Victors needed a nerf...but the one thing that made them really different from other assaults? meh.. Than again, i dont know how to nerf them otherwise without harming the brawler builds too...

actually,. that nerf hurth Brawlers far worse than poptarts.

Poptarts are in general needing limited mobility. Yup, they can't jump 180º a flanker anymore. That was seldom required anyhow.

Brawling you need that agility, because to pack firepower and speed to get in and out, you run an XL. XL requires speed and twisting up the wazoo to spread the damage to work. It's now nowhere near as good at that.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

actually,. that nerf hurth Brawlers far worse than poptarts.

Poptarts are in general needing limited mobility. Yup, they can't jump 180º a flanker anymore. That was seldom required anyhow.

Brawling you need that agility, because to pack firepower and speed to get in and out, you run an XL. XL requires speed and twisting up the wazoo to spread the damage to work. It's now nowhere near as good at that.

Wait? Did PGI remove the ability to to do a 180 in mid jump? That was the coolest thing to watch others do! I personally never learned how to get that quite right... but watching others do it was awesome! Even when they were doing it to peel my back armor!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 April 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

KharnZor, on 01 April 2014 - 08:42 PM, said:

Thats not fail. Fail is throwing a CS Tear Gas grenade and the wind shifting the smoke back on you!
Happened to my Company Gunny once! The gods were displeased that he would use one on us Marines that did not have our Masks issued in time.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 April 2014 - 04:06 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 April 2014 - 04:02 AM, said:

Wait? Did PGI remove the ability to to do a 180 in mid jump? That was the coolest thing to watch others do! I personally never learned how to get that quite right... but watching others do it was awesome! Even when they were doing it to peel my back armor!

Well, on the VTR and HGN.

Lights and some mediums can still do it post nerf. My Ember pirouettes like a fusion powered ballerina still. Of course, now that I said that, someone will complain that it's totally OP, and the Lights will get JJ nerfed AND MGs will get nerfed even further again.

Because if any weapon or mech beats someone elses, it has to be OP and therefore nerfed!