795 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 10 April 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Nah! The main thing I will blame PGI for is it's predilection for caving in to the whiny masses. I still blame the latter for the dumbing down of what could have been a really great game.



Now back to Elder Scrolls Online, a game that does not tell me what army I can or cannot bring to create a trail of death and destruction on my way to sitting on the Ruby Throne.

You mean there are online games out there that DON'T restrict your ability to just play with other people????

Someone should let PGI know this....

[Almond Brown]

Roadbeer, on 10 April 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

I lol'd

That is because everyone knows that Johnny's are OP. While having 2 Johnny's on the same team should be a banish-able offense.

[Almond Brown]

RussianWolf, on 10 April 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

caving to whiney masses.... we talking about the same people that forced 3PV on us over very strong protests? More like they refuse to listen to the players and are more likely listening to orders from IPG.

In defense of PGI on that one. 3PV did not turn out so bad really.

The Community needs to better pick it battles and not balk at every GD change that appears.

Then maybe PGI would be more receptive. You know what happening to the Boy that cried Wolf right?

Edited by Almond Brown, 10 April 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[Sandpit]

Almond Brown, on 10 April 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

In defense of PGI on that one. 3PV did not turn out so bad really.

The Community needs to better pick it battles and not balk at every GD change that appears.

Then maybe PGI would be more receptive. You know what happening to the Boy that cried Wolf right?

+1

Although 3PV is a perfect example of how PGI is completely out of touch, oblivious, and misrepresenting its community. The overwhelming "NO" response to 3pv and their determination to implement it anyway, dedicating man hour and resources to it shows how PGI is just way off on what their customers want sometimes.

Want 3PV?
No
But...
NO
Well....
NO

We're doing it anyway because players have a hard time figuring out how to pilot a mech.

Soooooooooooooooooooooo
You mean to tell me implementing the hated 3PV was a better alternative than making a tutorial or even simply explaining to players that a mech is like a tank. Feet in one direction and turret(torsos) in another?

Yea, that makes a lot of sense....

[Chemie]

I created and ALT account a month after 3PV came out and dropped and was not surprised to see that no one, even new players, was using it.

[Roadbeer]

Second most common phrase coming from a player in a Trial Mech...

"How do I turn of 3rd Person?"

[Sandpit]

Yea I'd like to see how "popular" their "vision" for 3PV is. What are the number of players that use 3PV aside from new players who haven't figured out how to turn it off yet.

PGI really expects me to believe that their numbers in this regard are greater than the number of players who want unrestricted group sizes....?

Yea, try to make that argument lol
Try to explain why it's ok to cater to an extreme minority (Id' be willing to bet single digits at most and well under 5% easy) in this regard but groups are somehow smaller or less important.

Just another example of PGI having their own personal "vision" for MWO regardless of what players may suggest, want, etc. I've said it before but some of the devs act like this is "their" game as opposed to a consumer product built to please paying customers.

Maybe that's why they went the free route, it takes away the "I paid for this" argument because you're not required to pay anything for it.

Anyhow, PGI is completely oblivious, duplicitous, and quite simply out of touch with their customer base

[-Natural Selection-]

I use 3pv all the time... Every time someone says "nice paintjob" I pan out to see what my old forgetful ass had put on it

[Almond Brown]

Sandpit, on 10 April 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

+1

Although 3PV is a perfect example of how PGI is completely out of touch, oblivious, and misrepresenting its community. The overwhelming "NO" response to 3pv and their determination to implement it anyway, dedicating man hour and resources to it shows how PGI is just way off on what their customers want sometimes.

Want 3PV?
No
But...
NO
Well....
NO

We're doing it anyway because players have a hard time figuring out how to pilot a mech.

Soooooooooooooooooooooo
You mean to tell me implementing the hated 3PV was a better alternative than making a tutorial or even simply explaining to players that a mech is like a tank. Feet in one direction and turret(torsos) in another?

Yea, that makes a lot of sense....

And here I was under the impression that the overwhelming "NO" vote was on these Forums and that these "Forums" do not actually represent the majority. It just contains more of the verbal diuretic types. AKA "The Self Entitled"

Chemie, on 10 April 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

I created and ALT account a month after 3PV came out and dropped and was not surprised to see that no one, even new players, was using it.

You mean after all the Whining, it was not the game changing ******* child as touted on these Forums? Really. Wow... How did the Community miss that...

[Sandpit]

Almond Brown, on 10 April 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

And here I was under the impression that the overwhelming "NO" vote was on these Forums and that these "Forums" do not actually represent the majority. It just contains more of the verbal diuretic types. AKA "The Self Entitled"

normally I agree with that sentiment.
The normal poll around here gets a few dozen responses
a "popular" poll that's been running for a while might get a few hundred and that's considered a "good" poll for the forums

3PV poll?
THOUSANDS voted no

[MadcatX]

Almond Brown, on 10 April 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

You mean after all the Whining, it was not the game changing ******* child as touted on these Forums? Really. Wow... How did the Community miss that...

Forum theories and realities can obviously be hit or miss, usually in terms of scale. The 3/3/3/3 abuse mentioned in this thread for example, it can definitely happen but the scale of it happening and how it effects my gaming experience, I'll check it our about a month after it goes live because I know a couple units that plan on abusing the hell out of it when it does go live as a sort of "told you so" to PGI but that'll settle down.

[Roadbeer]

The whole reason I made this thread, is so on May 5th, I can post this a lot...

[Sandpit]

MadcatX, on 10 April 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

Forum theories and realities can obviously be hit or miss, usually in terms of scale. The 3/3/3/3 abuse mentioned in this thread for example, it can definitely happen but the scale of it happening and how it effects my gaming experience, I'll check it our about a month after it goes live because I know a couple units that plan on abusing the hell out of it when it does go live as a sort of "told you so" to PGI but that'll settle down.

It's only 14% of the players, that's a small amount so it won't disrupt much

[Craig Steele]

Randalf Yorgen, on 10 April 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

interesting, quoting the rules



Interesting admitting to breaking those same rules




I'll just draw the dotted line back to the comments you made about your girlfriend.

don't you hate it when your own words come back and slap you in the face?

I notice you didn't quote where I said I play a straight bat and give out what I get. If someone sets the scene they should expect the same treatment. Takes me a while, for example I put up with you calling me "Mudhut" every post for a few days but sooner or later I give back what I get.

I notice you didn't actually link back to the "girlfriend" statement because then you would have had to quote the "In an attempt at humour" and that wouldn't help your argument would it.

Don't let the facts get in the way of playing the victim right, inferiority complexes are like. Plenty of amateur psychology people here in the forums will be able to help you with that. Just ask around.

But I do thank you for cleaning up your act in this post. It's the first one that hasn't contained any direct abuse. We are making progress it seems. Soon I'll get you to socially acceptable and then I'll be so proud of you.

[smokefield]

ok - i have read some of the posts here.. and my (probably worthless) opinion on this topic is that pgi does its business program very well. I think they know what we want and they will provide bits and bits of it over the time...but never as a whole. And they keep us in line spending money on a dream, a wishfull thining of what this game can be, but will never be because they want to milk as much as possible (which is understandable from business perspective). I am sure we will see some of the things implemented over the time..but until we will have the game koniving story described ..we will probably be too old or dead to play it. Good thins for those who have kids is tat they can leave a legacy..bad thing is that the game will be probably dead by then.

bottom line - just analyze how things went in the past..pgi knows how to jiggle with what the community wants and what they actually offer so we stay here wishing..but never getting.

[Gasoline]

Am I the only one who think it's rather ironic, that right into this discussion they present us pics of just another new shiny toy to play around with? Funny thing... although their design team was actually the best they had, they seem to mess up lately.

Oh... maybe that's the 26% I complained about, lol. PGI and percentages somehow don't get along very well.

smokefield, your opinion is not more or less worthless than ours. And you definitely have a point there. It fascinates me how they're twisting and jiggling with what players want to have in this game. They seem to have a mystical connection to some mindflayers.

[Demuder]

Mystere, on 10 April 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Of course I can blame whining. It seems to be an effective way in compelling developers to make changes to existing game features. Just look at how Mass Effect 3 was butchered because people did not like the original ending.

My point was that although there was whining -as there always is, with any game- there was at least 10 (if not a 100) times as much constructive criticism and really helpful feedback on legitimate issues that was ignored. Honestly, this is one of a few game boards where players really invest themselves into providing viable solutions. Maybe PGI did not ignore the whining but they certainly ignored everything else and followed a lazy and dismissive "if the patient's head hurts, let's cut off his head" approach, for which they are the only ones to blame.

o0Marduk0o, on 10 April 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Uhm, 3/3/3/3 is not being added to reduce stomps. Stomps don't happen because one team as less total weight. Often enough the team with less tonnage wins. The total weight is just one factor.
The issue is, that many players tend towards heavier mechs which leads to one-sided lance/company compositions. There is no good mix of all weight classes.
Weight class limits can change this, while tonnage limits alone would mostly only lead to assault/light teams.

Stomps happen because mechs are vaporized in a matter of seconds due to flawed mechanics and design. No amount of tampering with the classes and tons will alleviate that.

[o0Marduk0o]

dimstog, on 11 April 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

Stomps happen because mechs are vaporized in a matter of seconds due to flawed mechanics and design. No amount of tampering with the classes and tons will alleviate that.

Yes, blame weapon balance and stuff like that if you feel better. Dying in seconds is your own fault. Don't blame premades when one team is down 2:9 within the first 5 minutes.

[Demuder]

o0Marduk0o, on 11 April 2014 - 12:27 AM, said:

Yes, blame weapon balance and stuff like that if you feel better. Dying in seconds is your own fault. Don't blame premades when one team is down 2:9 within the first 5 minutes.

Why do you assume that I die in seconds instead of me killing others in seconds ? I feel just fine.

The premise however, is very simple.

When a pilot makes a mistake and find themselves surrounded by four mechs, they are obliterated in 2 seconds - that's because of mechanics, not because of the lack of skill of the doomed pilot or the excellent skills of the ganging pilots, no matter if they are on TS or just solo pilots. Maybe if it took them 20 seconds to destroy an assault, his/her friends would have the time to join the fray and maybe things would turn out a lot different. Or maybe just the same. What would be definitely different would be the amount of enjoyment both sides would take out of the fight. What happens now is that someone makes a mistake and sees some flashes for 2 seconds and then they are dead. That doesn't seem right for a Battletech game, unless you believe that driving and dying in a 100 ton behemoth should be exactly the same with your run of the mill FPS Call-of-Duty clone.

On the other hand, if destroying a mech took a little bit of time, the 5 minutes it takes to go into a 2-9 stomp, might actually take 10 minutes, and maybe the other team might have the time to turn the odds around a bit, not winning, but not leaving the game feeling hopeless and stomped.

Finally, although we may argue about balance or mechanics, you can't argue about player skill. The 12-2 or 12-1 stomps I see so often can't be attributed to player skill. Since the MM does not have a reason to put all the imba players on one team and all the unskilled players on the other, we can safely assume that in most matches skill on both sides is relatively even. Most matches however end up in one team stomping the other, which by my limited statistics knowledge, means there's no correlation between the two. Same can be said about premades, although I am solo dropping nowadays, having a premade in the game doesn't seem to affect the stomping one way or the other.

[o0Marduk0o]

You know the armor values and weapon damage. How shall 4 mechs need 20 seconds to destroy another mech, if the single mech isn't torso twisting or moving back to cover? Direct fights are usually a matter of seconds and there is nothing wrong with it.
5 minutes stomps happen because people play stupid, drop any common sense and make more mistakes than it is good for them. Ask the guy with ~40% armor who feels the need to look over this ridge just to get blown off by a final shot. Or pilots who think going solo into a tunnel is a great tactic to flank the enemy, while an enemy lance inside tunnel disagrees. You can bring a dozen examples to explain stomps in short time.