187 replies to this topic

[AlmightyAeng]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 April 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

I'm not stroking E-peen. I was asking for names, because I'd like to ask them about dying to LRM's. If you've noticed, there are VERY few high end players that come here and say they die to LRM's often.

I don't know that I've read a post from one respectable unit that has come and said LRM's own their faces off.

I'm saying my personal ELO isn't super amazing in assaults. I am more of a Medium player.

When I drop in my Highlander solo, I tend do well with LRM's. Even if I see a good ELO player here and there in matches, they end up grouped with a bunch of scrubs.

When I drop in my Highlander with a bunch of guy who I know are good, and I'm seeing top level players every drop. LRM's just stop really working properly.

I think at some point we got off on the wrong foot...

OP is concered about "MISSLEWARRIOR OMFG."

Your point, if I read correctly was "Only if you're a noob."

My point was somewhere in the middle "If used to support brawlers, they CAN be effective...but they're not OP." In higher level play, yeah, I still see far more direct-fire and pinpoint, and LRM's are pretty rare...with the occasional person taking them.

My point is just that they aren't "useless" the way they used to be in higher-tier games...the changes made them minimally viable..not OP, as opposed to garbage.

Are we still disagreeing?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 April 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

I think I resemble this remark or the Law...

Or at least half of it!

The Law has a few, you and Docbach both come to mind. There have been others along the way.

Vassago obviously from KONG.

Bunch from the Templars.

I'm sure I'd think of more names if my brain wasn't rotting from being at work.

[AlmightyAeng]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 April 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

The Law has a few, you and Docbach both come to mind. There have been others along the way.

Vassago obviously from KONG.

Bunch from the Templars.

I'm sure I'd think of more names if my brain wasn't rotting from being at work.

Well, the last time I saw Docbach in game it was last week, and twice in one night. The first time I killed him...using an LRM Battlemaster...the second time I said hi to him again and he joked about how I only enjoy seeing him because I roll him. He then proceeded to kill me with his direct-fire weapons of, I think, his banshee.

So, minimally viable, and in the right hands, LRM's CAN be effectively used on good players, but they're by no means OP.

I KNOW I have a SS of that kill/conversation because his comments made me laugh

Edited by Ghost Badger, 07 April 2014 - 09:34 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Ghost Badger, on 07 April 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

My point is just that they aren't "useless" the way they used to be in higher-tier games...the changes made them minimally viable..not OP, as opposed to garbage.

Are we still disagreeing?

I'm fine with minimally viable.

My point is basically this.

LRM's scale with the level of competition you are facing, more so than any other weapon.

If you play against new players, they are good to great.

If you play against mediocre players they are ok to good.

If you play against good players they do squat to sometimes ok.

If you are in organized play, I highly recommend you don't bring LRM's.

[AlmightyAeng]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 April 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

I'm fine with minimally viable.

My point is basically this.

LRM's scale with the level of competition you are facing, more so than any other weapon.

If you play against new players, they are good to great.

If you play against mediocre players they are ok to good.

If you play against good players they do squat to sometimes ok.

If you are in organized play, I highly recommend you don't bring LRM's.

Yeah, I disagree with none of that, lol, but you WILL occasionall pull off a crazy good game with them even with 'named men' ... if you also don't suck.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 07 April 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Ghost Badger, on 07 April 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

Well, the last time I saw Docbach in game it was last week, and twice in one night. The first time I killed him...using an LRM Battlemaster...the second time I said hi to him again and he joked about how I only enjoy seeing him because I roll him. He then proceeded to kill me with his direct-fire weapons of, I think, his banshee.

So, minimally viable, and in the right hands, LRM's CAN be effectively used on good players, but they're by no means OP.

I KNOW I have a SS of that kill/conversation because his comments made me laugh

I don't think I've ever played Docbach in a match, but I'd be curious how you'd do against him if he wasn't in a brand new Banshee...which I'm not sold are actually good mechs.

So far they seem to die as easily as Atlases, and the lack of jump jets makes them still quite inferior to Victors and Highlanders.

[Roadbeer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 April 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Every unit has at least one outspoken guy on the forums.

Ahem

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Ghost Badger, on 07 April 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

Yeah, I disagree with none of that, lol, but you WILL occasionall pull off a crazy good game with them even with 'named men' ... if you also don't suck.

I knew we weren't far off.

I just don't get the complaining about LRM's, ESPECIALLY after the nerf back to 160. I've stopped using them again already.

Dual AC/5 + ER LL Shadow Hawk and AC/5 + Streaks + MLas again.

It's boring, but it works.

Roadbeer, on 07 April 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

Ahem

You're still ignored, though I do click to see what you post more so lately. Since you've moved into more of a Grey Knight/Black Knight role.

[HellJumper]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 April 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

If he wasn't dying to LRM's at 175 unless he made a stupid mistake...he definitely isn't at 160.



Every unit has at least one outspoken guy on the forums.



So indirect fire? Sorry, indirect fire sucks. And if you are dying to indirect fire you by association suck. That is very simple.

when did i said i am dying by indirect fire?? i have seen people dying and camping almost all game.. either you cant understand what i am writing down or i suck at actually writing down in plain understandable english (sorry but english is not my first language)

[AlmightyAeng]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 April 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

I don't think I've ever played Docbach in a match, but I'd be curious how you'd do against him if he wasn't in a brand new Banshee...which I'm not sold are actually good mechs.

So far they seem to die as easily as Atlases, and the lack of jump jets makes them still quite inferior to Victors and Highlanders.

Now I really wanna check the SS to see if it WAS a Banshee..like I said "I think."

The only one I've seen that I like is the ballistic variant...if you just want some pure-dakka turret action, or ppc/ac meta turret action...it's second to none if you pick your positioning properly. It's like having a CTF-4X with better armor, a standard engine and superior high gun placement.

[HellJumper]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 April 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

I'm fine with minimally viable.

My point is basically this.

LRM's scale with the level of competition you are facing, more so than any other weapon.

If you play against new players, they are good to great.

If you play against mediocre players they are ok to good.

If you play against good players they do squat to sometimes ok.

If you are in organized play, I highly recommend you don't bring LRM's.

but i dont play in organized matches as my time zone nly allow me to fight off in pug games where a single lance with lrm carriers mess almost everyone

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 April 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

I don't think I've ever played Docbach in a match, but I'd be curious how you'd do against him if he wasn't in a brand new Banshee...which I'm not sold are actually good mechs.

So far they seem to die as easily as Atlases, and the lack of jump jets makes them still quite inferior to Victors and Highlanders.

Don't think just because he is riding the new Hotness he is a one trick pony. Doc Pilots a mean Centurion as well. And IIRC he Phrated folks up as well.

[Lukoi Banacek]

What I find interesting about this is, it only seems to be a problem in the public queue. In 12's I routinely see maybe one LRM Mech per team, simply because teams are not going to sit back and get rained on the entire time. They use cover (even on *gasp* open maps like Tourmaline and Alpine) to good effect, get close and crush LRM boats.

It will settle out in the public queue as well (already seems to be imo).

Do not get me wrong, I still think 160m/s is a tad fast and the LRM's do seem to be coring CT almost exclusively sometimes and NARC really can be potent now (especially in public queue), but overall, the LRMs are counterable. I'd still tweak them as I think it's over the top atm, but they are not ruining the game for me atm.

I ran one the first few days of the patch, stopped. Tried them again after the dial back...still think they are slightly OP...and stopped. Not that interested in them personally and find them to be counterable. Yes, it sucks to get caught crossing an open area when the enemy has four of them tagging me, but it also sucks coming around a corner quickly where an AC40 JM6 is waiting in silent ambush.

A little tactical patience goes a long way.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 April 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

Don't think just because he is riding the new Hotness he is a one trick pony. Doc Pilots a mean Centurion as well. And IIRC he Phrated folks up as well.

No, I mean I'd bet Docbach is amazing in a Centurion and probably wouldn't have died to LRM's in one.

LRM's are brutal against Banshees and Atlases if they get caught out of position, I'm not a huge fan of either of them.

[Coolant]

HellJumper, on 07 April 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

First of all i would like to thanks the devs for turning mechwarrior online in to Camp warrior online... Team with more lrms have more chance to win now...

Almost every single mech i am seeing is switching its role towards an Lrm carrer.

ravens, atlases, jagers, hunchies, centurions

everything is carrying lrms now..the tactic is quite simple now.

hide behind a big rock, building or a mountain..only less experienced/noobs go out in open to face the enemy..let your scouts spot them and LRM rain..nothing can withstand the awesome power of lrms now.

forget lrm 15 or 20..bring in Lrm 30 or 40s if you want to have a good chance of winning..

yes every now and then some team with less lrm carriers win but its not happening much.. i dont know what has triggered this new game style but most of the atlases i see on the battlefields are not tanks anymore, they are sitting back carrying lrms 20 or @Xlrm 15s and just bombarding the enemy..Awesomes are doing same and so are higlanders....the game is no more Mech warrior online.. its all about which team can rain more lrms on enemy team...

Love when I see posts that start with, "every game is...". They should read, "From my experience...", because most of the time, what you see is not what others see. I don't see the majority of mechs with missiles. I see a couple on each team. What you deem a problem is because you choose to see what you want to see from your perspective. You assume everyone has the same perspective as you. I do not...

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 April 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

No, I mean I'd bet Docbach is amazing in a Centurion and probably wouldn't have died to LRM's in one.

LRM's are brutal against Banshees and Atlases if they get caught out of position, I'm not a huge fan of either of them.

No... its not likely he would have. Not impossible, but he is a dam sharp player and a good leader even if we are a bunch o' drunken cats!

[Ravnis]

Meh, I just ran into a KTO with all LRM5's instead of streaks. As a light pilot, it made my day and I was happy to knife fight it. If it was armed with streaks, I wouldn't have even gotten close to it. So if this is what I can expect from enemies, I'm all for LRM mechs instead of SRM or Streak mechs.

[AlmightyAeng]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 April 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

No, I mean I'd bet Docbach is amazing in a Centurion and probably wouldn't have died to LRM's in one.

LRM's are brutal against Banshees and Atlases if they get caught out of position, I'm not a huge fan of either of them.

Wait, you mean if he takes one of the natural enemies of a missileboat, a fast medium, he'll prosper? Blasphemy!!!

Nic, you're right when you say that LRM's scale with skill...they're also effected more situationally than any other system.

Anytime I take a larger mech, my job is "Shoot it in the face." I take a smaller mech, my job is "Shoot it in the ass."

If either of those jobs becomes dicey, the strategy is either "Shoot in the face" or "Run away."

With an LRM mech, your job, as I see it, is "Make other mechs easier to kill for your team by keeping up constant pounding during a brawl" or "Corral the enemy team into one spot so your team can position themselves to pincer them."

If you mess up with your positioning...your options are basically 1) Shoot them in the face with likely inadequate secondary weapons or 2) Die, while continuing to provide long-range support for others.

Before LRM's got a buff they didn't do much more than distract in a brawl, and they weren't enough of a threat to force anyone's head down. They aren't a weapon I'd take when my goal is "KILL KILL KILL." They're the mech I take when my job is "SUPPORT."

Granted, I still do better with direct-fire...but I LOVE having GOOD LRM support when I go brawl in something.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 07 April 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I'm really at the point where I just keep hoping ECM will get taken out of the "Blocks missiles for the entire team" game, and then we can really properly balance LRM's.

Preferably with a solution that creates a better direct fire experience, with a reasonable...but wholly unspectacular indirect fire experience.

I do not think the LRM experience now is good at all. WAY too many variables.

[meteorol]

Totally OT, and not even related to the rest of the thread (or any particular post in here), just because there was some short mentioning of elo:

What is it with this "high elo, low elo, respected units" assertions thrown around in every single balance thread?
Not a single person knows his own elo. Every statement regarding "if you play in high elo, players will do X" is a pure assumption, because the poster doesn't know his elo and "respected units" comes down to a personal estimation aswell.
The huge range from which the MM seems to pick players if he can't find someone in times doesn't make this easier.

When starting my Jagers (first heavy to ever use since CB, meaning 100% base elo), i frequently saw half of the team using meta builds with great success, 4 DS/733C jumpsniping premades, lack of lrms and everything else which is normally used to describe the "high elo"
IMO, we could use some reticence when it comes to making elo claims.

Judging from the number of posters who allegedly play in "high elo", the base elo must be pretty much empty.