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Regarding The Launch Module And Team Sizes - Feedback


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#1 Kyle Polulak

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:25 AM

Please let us know your thoughts of this Command Chair update:

Spoiler


#2 Heffay

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:35 AM

Very nice! Good work, PGI!

#3 TheCaptainJZ

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:38 AM

I'm not really a member of this crowd, but isn't there some way to launch a game without exactly 12 players? For example, group of 10 pairs vs 2 groups of 5. MM can't find 2 groups of 2 in time so it just goes ahead with the launch? (though groups of 2 would be far more common than groups of 5 or 10)

Also, once the group queue is up, would public matches just become single players only?

#4 Hellen Wheels

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:40 AM

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#5 TygerLily

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:41 AM

Maybe a group of 11 should be able to launch short. Afterall, 11 dudes on comms would probably wipe two 6-man groups and any other combination of 2 or more premades banded together every time. As far as 3/3/3/3, whatever's missing...is just missing. Again, being on comms is in fact THAT good: even being short an assault would probably not hinder the 11-man (they would probably just dock themselves a medium really...)

By the same token, if you choose the "solo pug fill-in" route, the PUG will be riding the gravy train of wins for the same reasons. But God help the solo PUG with an 11-man...our community isn't exactly known for its kindness in chat...


Or make it a 2-8 man queue, and let the groups of 4 or less be accessible to the group matches or the pug matches.

IE, 4 man launches. They will either be:
- the sole premade on their team in the pug arena
- allying with an 8-man in the premade arena
- allying with a 6-man, and 2-man in the premade arena
- allying with a 5-man, and 3-man in the premade arena
- or allying with two other 4-mans in the premade arena

Or:
IE, 3 man launches. They will either be:
- the sole premade on their team in the pug arena
- allying with an 7-man, and 2-man in the premade arena
- allying with a 6-man, and 3-man in the premade arena
- or allying with a 5-man, and 4-man in the premade arena

Or:
IE, 2 man launches. They will either be:
- the sole premade on their team in the pug arena
- allying with an 8-man, and 2-man in the premade arena
- allying with a 7-man, and 3-man in the premade arena
- allying with a 6-man, and 4-man in the premade arena
- or allying with a two five mans in the premade arena

...etc, along those lines.

EDIT: I also hope they reconsider not having two 2-mans fill in for a single 4-man in the pug arena...because reasons.

Also, this is a great point.

View PostAbivard, on 14 April 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

Why even allow any groups in the solo queue if there is a group queue?

If you have even One group in the solo queue then it is no longer a solo queue is it?

Is that a temporary feature until the public group only queue is functional?


What would having "1-group in pugs" accomplish that having a dedicated "group queue" and a dedicated "solo queue" couldn't do??

Edited by TygerLily, 14 April 2014 - 08:41 PM.


#6 FupDup

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:41 AM

As someone who pugs for the vast majority of his games, I can say that I would try out going in the group queue and maybe even stay there (depending on how close the skill level of each team would be).

Getting away from the "steering wheel underhive" type of teammates/enemies might be refreshing (group queue players would probably on average be more experienced).

Edited by FupDup, 14 April 2014 - 09:44 AM.


#7 Rebas Kradd

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:41 AM

Thanks for the update. Will this be a dialogue thread between you and us?

#8 Wintersdark

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:42 AM

Umm, I have to say I don't understand why you wouldn't allow solo players to join the group queue?

I would, certainly. How better to meet groups than to drop alongside them?

As to chance of winning? The Solo player's win chance is higher if anything alongside an 11 man group, not low. Put me in a match with an 11-man group against, say, two 6 man groups, and I won't shed a tear.

Failing that, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to stick with 2-10 man groups with the knowledge that wait times could be long. I doubt people would object too strenuously.

But seriously, have it disabled by default but allow solo players to join the group queue should they so desire.

#9 TercieI

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:44 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 14 April 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

Umm, I have to say I don't understand why you wouldn't allow solo players to join the group queue?

I would, certainly. How better to meet groups than to drop alongside them?

As to chance of winning? The Solo player's win chance is higher if anything alongside an 11 man group, not low. Put me in a match with an 11-man group against, say, two 6 man groups, and I won't shed a tear.


1000 times this^.

Seriously, your reason is "you'd have a better chance in PUGs?" I'll take my chances alongside a group, thanks. At the very least, it should be a better game than the average PUG game. I know how to react to what my teammates are doing, why not make that my call? I think most players worth their salt would take this option.

Editing in unoriginal but vehement thoughts: I continue to be flummoxed by the lack of understanding of cause and effect, too. The reason it's "mostly" solo drops now is because team dropping is such a pain in the behind. If you made it easier, that 84% number (badly defined and possibly bloated as it is) would crash down. It's a team game for crying out loud. It's only high because it's so flipping hard to play in a group.

Edited by Terciel1976, 14 April 2014 - 09:47 AM.


#10 Hellen Wheels

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:46 AM

View PostTerciel1976, on 14 April 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:


1000 times this^.

Seriously, your reason is "you'd have a better chance in PUGs?" I'll take my chances alongside a group, thanks. At the very least, it should be a better game than the average PUG game. I know how to react to what my teammates are doing, why not make that our call?

I think the subtext there was, "We don't have the programming acumen to be able to fill that slot."

It was definitely a non-sequitur.

#11 Heffay

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:46 AM

Does 3/3/3/3 still apply? If you have a 10 man that only has a light and assault slot left, does that mean you're going to wait for a 2 man group with a light and assault makeup in the right Elo queue?

I didn't see anything about rewards, but may have missed that. Will you be able to earn c-bills and modify Elo in the group queue?

#12 Amsro

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:47 AM

Quote

Public/Single Player Queue
  • Solo players
  • 2-4 man groups. 1 group per team as it is now.
Group Queue
  • Allows 2-10 man groups.
  • Groups can only play against other groups.
  • No solo players.
  • Match Maker will not make a team of 11 players
  • Probability of longer wait times for teams to be built.
  • Cannot incorporate exact tonnage matching like the other queues.







Public Player Queue
  • Solo players
  • 1-12 man groups. 1 group per team as it is now. Extra spots filled by solo players. Both the teams would be of similar size +/- 2 fill the rest with solo. Tonnage Maximum for teams, as the team gets bigger the limits get tougher.
Seriously just save yourself all that headache remove the restrictions and your answer forms itself Paul. After that you can work on Community Warfare.





Make your job easier, stop overcomplicating.! ;)

Edit; New Thread with poll! Please Vote!

View PostOsric Lancaster, on 15 April 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

Put on your futility hats ladies and gents, it's time to poll this up.

http://mwomercs.com/...odule-revision/

Spoiler


Edited by Amsro, 20 April 2014 - 09:39 AM.


#13 Wintersdark

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:47 AM

View PostTerciel1976, on 14 April 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:


1000 times this^.

Seriously, your reason is "you'd have a better chance in PUGs?" I'll take my chances alongside a group, thanks. At the very least, it should be a better game than the average PUG game. I know how to react to what my teammates are doing, why not make that our call?

Absolutely. I get that a lot of PUG players get all bent out of shape about grouped players, but there are a whole lot of us WHO REALLY PREFER PLAYING ALONGSIDE GROUPS.

I can't really emphasize that enough. Please, allow us to join the group queue. Please.

Edited by Wintersdark, 14 April 2014 - 09:48 AM.


#14 Roadbeer

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:48 AM

View PostNikolai Lubkiewicz, on 14 April 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Group Queue
Allows 2-10 man groups.
Groups can only play against other groups.
No solo players.
Match Maker will not make a team of 11 players
Probability of longer wait times for teams to be built.
Cannot incorporate exact tonnage matching like the other queues.

I think an obvious solution to this would be for the teams created to be of even numbers.
It's infinitely easier to find 1 more than it is to find 8 more to create the next team level. While this still has the potential for the "odd man out", I think it would be more desirous than "odd lance out" and the perpetual attempts to sync drop.
Plus even numbers would make it easier to create 12 than a smattering of odd numbers.

#15 zolop

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:49 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 14 April 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Umm, I have to say I don't understand why you wouldn't allow solo players to join the group queue?

I would, certainly. How better to meet groups than to drop alongside them?

As to chance of winning? The Solo player's win chance is higher if anything alongside an 11 man group, not low. Put me in a match with an 11-man group against, say, two 6 man groups, and I won't shed a tear.

...

But seriously, have it disabled by default but allow solo players to join the group queue should they so desire.


Agree

#16 Wildflame

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:49 AM

I only drop 1/3 of the time solo. That said, I would be very interested in having a checkbox option to join the group queue when I do drop solo.

Edit: Also, I agree with Amsro. Loosen the restrictions on large groups and let them figure it out organically. You can tweak as needed later.

Edited by Wildflame, 14 April 2014 - 09:50 AM.


#17 TercieI

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:50 AM

View PostHellen Wheels, on 14 April 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

I think the subtext there was, "We don't have the programming acumen to be able to fill that slot."

It was definitely a non-sequitur.


I think the subtext was "Paul is responsible for a game he demonstrates more and more every time he opens his mouth that he doesn't actually play or understand." Just...GAH!

#18 Nicholas Carlyle

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:53 AM

Solo Queue - Solo Drops.

Group Queue - 2-10 or just make it fully unrestricted. No tonnage matching, no ELO matching, just straight up carnage.



Done.

Easy.

#19 Kaldor

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:53 AM

Quote

As the numbers indicated in the previous post showed, group launches, no matter what size, were always going to be a smaller subset of the overall game population.


Yeah, maybe now, after you guys crapped all over groups for the last year plus and most of the grouped players quit.... Statistics = lying with numbers....


Just make the max group size 8 and add requirement that the additional 4 players are solo?

#20 Felbombling

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:54 AM

Paul, with all due respect, who cares if the matchmaker makes a 12 v 11 match in the group only queue? They're all most likely on voice coms, anyway, so wouldn't that be 10x better than throwing groups against PuGs from the outset of this game? So what if the match ends up being one 11 man team versus a team consisting of a 4-man, 2-man and 6-man group? Perhaps you should poll the players to see how they feel about a change like that.

Good news, at any rate.





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