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Regarding The Launch Module And Team Sizes - Feedback


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#541 Craig Steele

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 05:40 AM

View PostMagnakanus, on 15 April 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:



2) I get your point here, that minority may be enough to keep him happy with his revenues and keep his business afloat. Tastes can change with time, the cake I like today may not be the cake I like tomorrow. Were I the baker I might talk to and listen to the paying customers close to home and get a good impression of what they like and don't like. unless you are McBaker you can't live on "drive through" clients forever.



But it also could be so many other things.

For example, maybe the "best" cakes need certain ingredients, or certain cooking, or storage. Maybe they need more labour and he cannot put on another staff member because of an Insurance claim. Maybe he is fully capable of making the "best" cakes, and even if his market said we would love them, he couldn't actualy do it without new premises for some Health and Safety requirement? There are literally hundreds of factors that might apply.

All of this is airy fairy, I'm not saying this analogy fits with PGI.

What I am highlighting is that there's a lot more to any business decision (including PGI) than simply "do the customers want it".

Ergo: "Any 10 year old could do this" I kinda question

It's a bit of a tangent anyway, my post was just in response to that particular post.

#542 JHackworth

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 06:00 AM

The design goal here ought to be about maximizing opportunities for people to play the game they want:

so,

1) allow 4, 8 or 12 man premades
2) provide an option to "fill-empty-slots" from the ad-hoc pool. If you check this option, you can launch with 7 and MM will pick 5 others. If you uncheck it, MM will launch with 7 + 4 others.

#543 Grenadapult

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 06:15 AM

Its great to see PGI is still working on this, but I strongly disagree with one point. " A solo player would have MUCH greater success at winning in the regular public match than up against teams." And keep in mind, I STRONGLY disagree. I have abeen a team player for a long time, but due to crazy personal schedules in real life, my play time has gotten erratic at best. I now play almost exclusively PUG matches. What wouldn't I give to join an 11 man team!?? I would LOVE to drop alonside 11 guys on comms. THEY are playing as a team. They are TEAM PLAYERS. I would be less likely to think "oh, he's got my right side covered." and then get team shot, or simply abandoned. Groups are not just a physical entity, but also a mindset. PUG matches are more often then not, 12 random guys doing random actions against 12 other random guys. Let me be a one drop substitute for a team that is short!! Please!

#544 Magna Canus

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 06:27 AM

View PostCraig Steele, on 15 April 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:


But it also could be so many other things.

For example, maybe the "best" cakes need certain ingredients, or certain cooking, or storage. Maybe they need more labour and he cannot put on another staff member because of an Insurance claim. Maybe he is fully capable of making the "best" cakes, and even if his market said we would love them, he couldn't actualy do it without new premises for some Health and Safety requirement? There are literally hundreds of factors that might apply.

All of this is airy fairy, I'm not saying this analogy fits with PGI.

What I am highlighting is that there's a lot more to any business decision (including PGI) than simply "do the customers want it".

Ergo: "Any 10 year old could do this" I kinda question

It's a bit of a tangent anyway, my post was just in response to that particular post.

Yes, I understand that completely that there are a lot of factors that can hinder a baker from making a particular cake and thereby be able to appeal to a less than optimal portion of the market they occupy. This is also one of the basic ideas behind commercial capitalism, somewhat akin to the evolutionary "survival of the fittest" theory. The baker in our example may not be able to make that cake, but another might and if that baker from out of town decides he has enough of the market share in town to justify opening up a branch he probably will. Competition of that kind can put a business out of business were it not for the in town bakers official monopoly ensuring that only he can bake in said town (e.g. IP License). This forces those in town to eat cake they don't like or just stop eating cake until said baker goes out of business and another baker moves in.

Numerous large, once-successful companies have failed in recent years. Some have gone bankrupt; others have been substantially reduced in size and fallen from an industry leadership position. What caused their failures? Were they not sufficiently analytical? Perhaps they had adequate information and analysis but made irrational decisions.

Failure is not necessarily due to unforeseeable events. Companies that have failed often knew what was happening but chose not to do much about it. Nor is failure always the result of taking the wrong daily actions.

Often no one challenges the status quo and asks the "tough questions". Delusion and fear of the unknown can develop, affecting how organizations handle key relationships with customers. When it comes to considering whether to adopt advanced business analytics, or whether to implement and integrate the various component methodologies that constitute analytics-based enterprise performance management (EPM), decision-makers are faced with two choices: do it or not. Many organizations ignore the fact that the choice to not act, which means to continue with the status quo and to perpetuate making decisions the way they currently are, is also a decision.

In many cases, executives believe that if a control system is in place, it will do the job for which it was intended. However, in many organizations, systems and policies are constructed for day-to-day activity but not for robustly analyzing the abundance of raw data to make sense of it all. Sustainability is based on transforming data into analyzable information for insights and decision-making. This is where business intelligence, business analytics and analytics-based enterprise performance management systems fit in.

A common misconception of information technology specialists is that they equate applying business intelligence (BI) technologies (i.e. data mining) with query and reporting techniques such as data mining (e.g. count drops from day 0, filter solo & group).

In practice, experienced analysts don’t use BI as if they were searching for a diamond in a coal mine. They don’t flog the data until it confesses with the truth. Instead, they first speculate that two or more things are related (group # cap = reduction in group player drops) or that some underlying behavior is driving a pattern seen in various data (less content = fewer players). They apply business analytics more for confirmation than for random exploration. This requires analysts to have easy and flexible access to data, the ability to manipulate the data (no, not change the numbers) and software to support their investigative process. Without initial problem framing and a confirmatory approach, mistakes are inevitable. Sadly many do not learn from their mistakes, but rather repeat them with more gusto.

We are all far less rational in our decision-making than standard economic theory assumes (x is more profitable than y = we do this). Our irrational behaviors are neither random nor senseless though, they are systematic and predictable. So wouldn’t economics make a lot more sense if it were based on how people actually behave? That simple idea is the basis of behavioral economics.

Wouldn’t getting a return on investment from an organization’s treasure trove of stored raw and activity data be greater and more meaningful if they properly applied business analytics? With today’s uncertain recovery from the global recession, the stakes have never been higher for managers to make better decisions with analyzable information. Companies that successfully use their information will out-think, out-smart and out-execute their competitors. High-performing enterprises are building their strategies around information-driven insights that generate results from the power of analytics of all flavors, such as segmentation (solo play & group play) and regression analysis (loss of customer base) and especially predictive analytics (how will this change my customer base). They are proactive, not reactive, and therefore more successful.

Executives are human and can make mistakes, but in company failures, these are no longer simply minor misjudgments. In many cases, their errors are enormous miscalculations that can be explained by problems in leadership (think in terms of your argument used to explain part of the player loss in units). Regardless of how decentralized some businesses might claim to be in their decision-making, corporations can be rapidly brought to the brink of failure by executives whose personal qualities create risks rather than mitigate them. To sustain long-term success, companies need leaders with vision and inspiration to answer, “Where do we want to go?” Then, by communicating their strategy to managers and employees, they can empower their workforce with analytical tools to correctly answer, “How will we get there?” This is the heart of analytics. Employees make hundreds, possibly thousands, of decisions every day, such as pricing and customer targeting. Incrementally better small decisions add up and may contribute more to the financial bottom line impact than the few big decisions made by executives.

I don't mean to sound lecturing, but I thought you would appreciate a more academic reply. This also seems to round up a lot of discussions going on in the moment regarding various topics.

#545 Sable

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:00 AM

I've been seeing some good stuff posted in this thread as possible solutions. I just wanted to throw a few ideas out there so that all things could be considered in the process.

As i don't know how the pregame lobby is going to work yet is it not possible to matche everyone up and then let them pick a mech in that lobby? Or will they already be locked into their preferred role once they enter the lobby?

I agree with some of have suggested letting a 11 man group drop against a 12 man and this is because about 20-30% of the time players disconnect or never join a match so fighting a man down isn't that much of a handycap.

I play with a small group of guys and sometimes there are an extra 1-2 people that are just out of luck. Even group sizes of 5 or 6 would be much appreciated to fit in that extra buddy. Matching 2 teams of 6 or a team of 5 and a team of 6 doesn't "seem" like it would be all that bad.

You seem like a pretty analytical guy and i appreciate your efforts trying to solve problems before they occcure but if you did just open up the group queue to all team sizes and let it run for a while i'm sure you would be able to gather a lot of good data to see how often those fringe cases would actually occure.

Take care and keep up the good work!

#546 Craig Steele

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:04 AM

View PostMagnakanus, on 15 April 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

Yes, I understand that completely that there are a lot of factors that can hinder a baker from making a particular cake and thereby be able to appeal to a less than optimal portion of the market they occupy. This is also one of the basic ideas behind commercial capitalism, somewhat akin to the evolutionary "survival of the fittest" theory. The baker in our example may not be able to make that cake, but another might and if that baker from out of town decides he has enough of the market share in town to justify opening up a branch he probably will. Competition of that kind can put a business out of business were it not for the in town bakers official monopoly ensuring that only he can bake in said town (e.g. IP License). This forces those in town to eat cake they don't like or just stop eating cake until said baker goes out of business and another baker moves in.

Numerous large, once-successful companies have failed in recent years. Some have gone bankrupt; others have been substantially reduced in size and fallen from an industry leadership position. What caused their failures? Were they not sufficiently analytical? Perhaps they had adequate information and analysis but made irrational decisions.

Failure is not necessarily due to unforeseeable events. Companies that have failed often knew what was happening but chose not to do much about it. Nor is failure always the result of taking the wrong daily actions.

Often no one challenges the status quo and asks the "tough questions". Delusion and fear of the unknown can develop, affecting how organizations handle key relationships with customers. When it comes to considering whether to adopt advanced business analytics, or whether to implement and integrate the various component methodologies that constitute analytics-based enterprise performance management (EPM), decision-makers are faced with two choices: do it or not. Many organizations ignore the fact that the choice to not act, which means to continue with the status quo and to perpetuate making decisions the way they currently are, is also a decision.

In many cases, executives believe that if a control system is in place, it will do the job for which it was intended. However, in many organizations, systems and policies are constructed for day-to-day activity but not for robustly analyzing the abundance of raw data to make sense of it all. Sustainability is based on transforming data into analyzable information for insights and decision-making. This is where business intelligence, business analytics and analytics-based enterprise performance management systems fit in.

A common misconception of information technology specialists is that they equate applying business intelligence (BI) technologies (i.e. data mining) with query and reporting techniques such as data mining (e.g. count drops from day 0, filter solo & group).

In practice, experienced analysts don’t use BI as if they were searching for a diamond in a coal mine. They don’t flog the data until it confesses with the truth. Instead, they first speculate that two or more things are related (group # cap = reduction in group player drops) or that some underlying behavior is driving a pattern seen in various data (less content = fewer players). They apply business analytics more for confirmation than for random exploration. This requires analysts to have easy and flexible access to data, the ability to manipulate the data (no, not change the numbers) and software to support their investigative process. Without initial problem framing and a confirmatory approach, mistakes are inevitable. Sadly many do not learn from their mistakes, but rather repeat them with more gusto.

We are all far less rational in our decision-making than standard economic theory assumes (x is more profitable than y = we do this). Our irrational behaviors are neither random nor senseless though, they are systematic and predictable. So wouldn’t economics make a lot more sense if it were based on how people actually behave? That simple idea is the basis of behavioral economics.

Wouldn’t getting a return on investment from an organization’s treasure trove of stored raw and activity data be greater and more meaningful if they properly applied business analytics? With today’s uncertain recovery from the global recession, the stakes have never been higher for managers to make better decisions with analyzable information. Companies that successfully use their information will out-think, out-smart and out-execute their competitors. High-performing enterprises are building their strategies around information-driven insights that generate results from the power of analytics of all flavors, such as segmentation (solo play & group play) and regression analysis (loss of customer base) and especially predictive analytics (how will this change my customer base). They are proactive, not reactive, and therefore more successful.

Executives are human and can make mistakes, but in company failures, these are no longer simply minor misjudgments. In many cases, their errors are enormous miscalculations that can be explained by problems in leadership (think in terms of your argument used to explain part of the player loss in units). Regardless of how decentralized some businesses might claim to be in their decision-making, corporations can be rapidly brought to the brink of failure by executives whose personal qualities create risks rather than mitigate them. To sustain long-term success, companies need leaders with vision and inspiration to answer, “Where do we want to go?” Then, by communicating their strategy to managers and employees, they can empower their workforce with analytical tools to correctly answer, “How will we get there?” This is the heart of analytics. Employees make hundreds, possibly thousands, of decisions every day, such as pricing and customer targeting. Incrementally better small decisions add up and may contribute more to the financial bottom line impact than the few big decisions made by executives.

I don't mean to sound lecturing, but I thought you would appreciate a more academic reply. This also seems to round up a lot of discussions going on in the moment regarding various topics.


Your presentation is thesis sounding, and I don't have an argument with the general content.

However you do dwell overly on the negative. You paint a picture that data interpretation is the motherlode and without it, a business faces abject failure, that's just not so.

The numbers are that even during the worst of the global recession, many more businesses made it through than failed and some even prospered under the most difficult of circumstances. Data collation and analysis is a significant cost (both time and money) for most businesses and not something undertaken lightly, and certainly not willingly when economic conditions (and profits) are being pummelled.

Their reasons for their success are as various as the businesses concerned, but very few of them succeeded on the strength of a minor market demographic asking for more than it was being offered directing business activity, that was a time for "core business activity"

And many of them did not succeed on the strength of data analysis, or due to the lack of it.

Data analysis is only one tool that a business may call upon and is by no means a surefire problem solver. I am sure PGI are in a similar position on some fronts. Notwithstanding all the data and what their (professional?) interpretations may be, they still have to make the calls based on a "whole of business" basis.

Even though PGI offers stats as a reasoning for their business decision (Launch Module) I have little doubt there were many other factors considered and part of the process.

Thats what many people don't get and throw away lines like "A 10 year old could do it" are unfounded.

#547 Magna Canus

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:50 AM

View PostCraig Steele, on 15 April 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

1) However you do dwell overly on the negative. You paint a picture that data interpretation is the motherlode and without it, a business faces abject failure, that's just not so.

2) The numbers are that even during the worst of the global recession, many more businesses made it through than failed and some even prospered under the most difficult of circumstances. Data collation and analysis is a significant cost (both time and money) for most businesses and not something undertaken lightly, and certainly not willingly when economic conditions (and profits) are being pummelled.

3) Their reasons for their success are as various as the businesses concerned, but very few of them succeeded on the strength of a minor market demographic asking for more than it was being offered directing business activity, that was a time for "core business activity" And many of them did not succeed on the strength of data analysis, or due to the lack of it.

4) Data analysis is only one tool that a business may call upon and is by no means a surefire problem solver. I am sure PGI are in a similar position on some fronts. Notwithstanding all the data and what their (professional?) interpretations may be, they still have to make the calls based on a "whole of business" basis.

5) Thats what many people don't get and throw away lines like "A 10 year old could do it" are unfounded.


1) I do see how you could interpret how economics function as not being data dependent. On the other hand, every successful business I know of makes use of this in some form or another, even if it is the guy selling hot dogs on the street using his knowledge of where the best customers are (not always the most). I doubt that any business completely ignores the need for information on their market and their position therein as well as some form of analysis where they want to be in the future. An "educated guess" (analytics based decision) is more likely to succeed than simply a guess. Basing your business model on simple conjecture alone is setting yourself up for failure in the long run.

2) The conditions under which they prospered are varied and are beyond this topic (simply too many). I am sure some can be attributed to "blind luck", but most were due to either a robust economic policy or strategic planning which most often involves some form of risk/opportunity analysis. Data analysis in itself costs you no more than the existing BI systems and a competent employee (Any Business analysis graduate will do). The bigger the business (multiple systems, locations, etc.) the more the potential cost of course, but that does not factor at all in the current context.

3) I have observed that many of your statements, especially this one, places quantity over quality, e.g. quoting raw numbers as the most desirable economic factor. I would agree were there some sort of "opt in" price (since in the undertone ware are speaking of MWO here). As it is the F2P masses are not guaranteed income, only an income potential that needs sufficient convincing. In previous posts I have described the advantages of having an emotionally invested consumer base vs. a fickle "drive through" customer base which compounds when factored with a relatively "obscure" (in the broader sense of the word) IP as BT. Since there is no way for you to reliably substantiate the financial advantages of the "walk-in F2P crowd" short of PGI released fiscal information, the only reliable basis for comparison are the fans that opted in as Founders/Phoenix pack/Clan pack owners.

4) I look forward to seeing your list of alternative tools that do not relate to analyzing business data which lead to business success.

5) I think the stated 10 year old was an exaggeration. I saw a post from an IT professional a few posts earlier that was more objective. I would not get overly excited about said 10 year old post. :huh:

#548 Davers

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:06 AM

View PostSable, on 15 April 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

I've been seeing some good stuff posted in this thread as possible solutions. I just wanted to throw a few ideas out there so that all things could be considered in the process.

As i don't know how the pregame lobby is going to work yet is it not possible to matche everyone up and then let them pick a mech in that lobby? Or will they already be locked into their preferred role once they enter the lobby?

I agree with some of have suggested letting a 11 man group drop against a 12 man and this is because about 20-30% of the time players disconnect or never join a match so fighting a man down isn't that much of a handycap.

I play with a small group of guys and sometimes there are an extra 1-2 people that are just out of luck. Even group sizes of 5 or 6 would be much appreciated to fit in that extra buddy. Matching 2 teams of 6 or a team of 5 and a team of 6 doesn't "seem" like it would be all that bad.

You seem like a pretty analytical guy and i appreciate your efforts trying to solve problems before they occcure but if you did just open up the group queue to all team sizes and let it run for a while i'm sure you would be able to gather a lot of good data to see how often those fringe cases would actually occure.

Take care and keep up the good work!

My understanding, and maybe the source of my confusion about PGI's decision to limit groups, is this.

You load up mechs of a particular weight class into your 'Dropship' that has a number of slots. You launch into game and join a lobby. Then you select which mech you want to use. The match starts and finishes. You then go back to the same lobby, with the same players on both sides. Maybe some people leave and others join. Then you select your mech and go into another game.

So when VOIP is integrated, you will be able to drop with the same players continually and be able to speak with your team on mic. Which sounds an awful lot like having a premade group.

Is my understanding of lobbies wrong?

#549 DirePhoenix

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:16 AM

View PostNo7, on 15 April 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

The lack of Karl in this thread is disturbing.


We don't need more queues, we need a lobby where we can set up the game we want to play.

Those are called private matches and we're already getting those.

#550 Aym

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:28 AM

I don't understand why you insist on 3/3/3/3 for the "Group Queue." Wouldn't a tonnage limit much more effectively address the group dynamic? For instance a 600 ton limit would allow 6 Atlai, or 12 Hunchbacks, or any variation in between, and would that not be a more elegant solution than "we don't believe solo players would want to play on a team with 11 other players so to heck with it?"

Also, Why are we so hung up on the advantage conveyed through a little effort and cheap hardware (ie voice coms) yet totally ok with some player getting 120 FPS stomping a stuttering 10 FPS in combat through much more expensive hardware advantages? And before you say some people don't WANT to play in cooperative groups, because I know they don't, some people don't WANT to spend the money on a new rig, or REALLY can't afford it, some people don't WANT to live closer to the server for better ping, and some players don't WANT to play with mouse and keyboard, so they don't, and they eat that disadvantage and their team does as well, so why does voice communication get singled out so severely?

#551 SmurfOff

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:51 AM

Everytime I read about the "launch module" it just makes me sad that we have made things so complicated.

First iteration should just be a simple three choice system:

a - PUG queue. All PUG, all the time.
b - Will Call queue. Random group sizes backfilled with PUGs.
c - 12 Man Queue. All 12 Mans, All the time.

Further down the line, like in two years or so, implement a Battle Value system (you know, the one used to balance Battletech Matches for 30+ years).

The next iteration could be to fold back in ELO scores to make matches even more balanced.

Problem solved.

#552 Nicholas Carlyle

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:26 AM

Just curious, if Paul isn't reading this thread, is Niko?

I'm hoping our brand new community manager is taking notes to forward to the big boys who seem to have little time for us, beyond single posts now and then.

#553 BLOOD WOLF

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:46 AM

View PostGalaxyBluestar, on 15 April 2014 - 01:07 AM, said:


well if we're gonna talk about foolish arguments then don't you consider it foolish to run an online team game amongest competing games whom provide for group players and thrive off the customers they bring in and tell the ones at your shop door "sorry we don't serve your kind" and turn all that potential away? further more go to the trouble explaining "why" there's many many reasons they can't be served while a strong and proven growth demographic in this field says otherwise?

essentially what i'm reading is we want top dollar in grabdeals but a cheap low customer base, we don't want the groups and guilds buisness for our buisness field which normally serves groups and guilds. not providing is silly if you want to be in buisness it's that simple.

Gonna stop when you talked about "sorry we dont serve your kind". They just want to get what they need to get out now and then later on try to work on your problem. I quoted Paul, when he said; They are not putting it on the back burner, they are just gonna look into after CW is released and they have time to spare. If they try to help everybody all at once they will fail to help anyone. Its gonna be this way for now until they have the time to spare. Even when they do look into it, there is no guarantee that the can come up with a solution.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 15 April 2014 - 10:47 AM.


#554 Werewolf486 ScorpS

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:46 AM

It's something to start with and shows that PGI is finally willing to do something about the issue. I still think you're being to ridged about it and should just open it up for a period of 2 months to see how it goes once you get the 4x3 in. A que could be made with slots for the different classes and make it first come first serve.

#555 MischiefSC

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:50 AM

two things on a phone, sorry for crap formatting.

1. discos, afk, playing with 11 isnt uncommon. let us choose to drop.

2. let me pug there. Everyone on the team is atleast vaguely open to teamwork? let me in! i vever use voip anyway. it would be much like dropping premade for me anyway. so long as both teams are 90% premade its good.

Matchmaking experience is always more about perception than mechanics. By choosing a team queue the player is selecting teamwork and is choosing to a degree their experience. That has a huge impact both on behavior and how they feel about the match, win or lose.

#556 Amsro

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 11:12 AM

View PostCraig Steele, on 14 April 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

Is that what the general concensus is, CW for groups, Solo's man up or move on?


Nope, because CW is a dream. (Even then you can't have a community solo, so your questions are loaded.)

Just so simple.

Solo Que
Team + Solo Que

This will allow all players to have a good experience in MWO.

Currently what they are proposing won't even work with their own idea of CW. Literally they are making it up as they go, changing their mind now and then.

View PostBLOOD WOLF, on 14 April 2014 - 11:22 PM, said:

Not once has anybody who advocated for group ques ever considered anybody else, Except for those who agreed with them.


Generalizations are bad.

I've non-stop been advocating a place were solo players can play free of teams, this is a benefit to all that are;

-Playing a drop or 2 while they have time
-Leveling a mech or a chassis
-Trying different loadouts
-Learning how to pilot a new mech class

On top of that, once that player decides their mech is modded and maxxed out and they have been having great matches in the solo que, they can then try their luck in the team que.

Niether of these are community warfare because that doesn't exist. We are just talking about making it easier for Teams to Team up, while also making easier for solo players to just play without the worry of a team stomping them.

Win/Win

This will also allow PGI a second crack at the Team/Solo metric. Using open ques to truly test there popularity and population.

Edited by Amsro, 15 April 2014 - 11:24 AM.


#557 Sandpit

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 12:08 PM

View PostGasoline, on 14 April 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

Just for the statistics... count me in on that!

View PostEJT, on 14 April 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

I PUG exclusively and I would join the mixed-group queue in a second if the option were available. Paul said that a solo player rounding out an 11 player group would have a tough time winning, but I strongly disagree.



tell me again Paul how solo players don't want this?


View PostCraig Steele, on 14 April 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

So can I just clarify a general feel I seem to be reading into some of these proposals.

Is it that Groups queues will be the core of the game and the foundation of CW and faction warfare etc and solo players can "opt in" to fill out a group TO&E up to 12 (in various designs)

Cause one thing that just occurred to me is that if group activity is the minority as PGI have told us, then any proposal along those lines is basically cutting off the majority demographic of a core component of the game promise.

Essentially group players will enjoy the full immersion of the game, and those who solo PUG (which as far as we know is 84% of actual activity since the beginning of the game) will not unless they "get on board" and join a team.

Is that what the general concensus is, CW for groups, Solo's man up or move on?

This?

This is the kind of stuff that irritates me. Show me where the proposals tossed out such as a group + solo optional queues even remotely hint at that.

This especially irritates me when you're trying to use it as an argument against groups. That exact scenario you just laid out? That's EXACTLY what PGI has planned for groups. Groups can't participate in the game fully. Solos can but groups cannot. you're trying to make these suggestions and concerns into something they're not and just diluting and distracting from the ideas and feedback by trying to turn it into "poor solo players, you want them alienated yadda yadda yadda"

So explain to me how
group queue 2-12
solo players having an option to join it
playing in CW
earning cbills and exp for matches

in any way, shape, or form, can be translated to "solo players are being (insert whatever detrimental buzz word you'd like to use here) and group players just want them left out in the cold"

show me how saying
2-12 man groups
CW
rewards

Has ANYTHING to do with how solo players are allowed to play the game. Stop trying to make this into an anti-solo player discussion. Myself and many others could give 2 sh**s about how they play the game. They've already got options to play in the above mentioned fashion. Nobody anywhere is suggesting taking that away from them. The only thing that's being suggested is allowing groups to do the same thing. How that gets done isn't important as long as it gets done. Stop trying to make it into anything other than
2-12
CW
Cbills & exp

That's the ONLY thing those of us wanting some sort of group queue are wanting. That's it. Don't try and turn that into something it's not. Stop trying to take away from those 3 points. That's the issue. Nothing else. Let me repeat it one more time just so anyone who didn't understand how simple that was the first two times
2012
CW
Cbills and exp

nothing else.

#558 Sandpit

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 12:12 PM

View PostBLOOD WOLF, on 15 April 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

Gonna stop when you talked about "sorry we dont serve your kind". They just want to get what they need to get out now and then later on try to work on your problem. I quoted Paul, when he said; They are not putting it on the back burner, they are just gonna look into after CW is released and they have time to spare.

uhm
Collisions were temporary
CW was 90 days out
Group limits were temporary

we could do a whole laundry list of this kind of thing. CW isn't even scheduled to come out until MAYBE fall, so basically that translates to "We might look into it again in 6 months, maybe, could be a year"

So please don't try to make what Paul said into a "You're being impatient, QQ, etc." situation. Don't, just don't. I've posted many times on these forums about having patience, understanding the delays of game development, etc.

#559 Osric Lancaster

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 12:31 PM

Put on your futility hats ladies and gents, it's time to poll this up.

http://mwomercs.com/...odule-revision/

Spoiler


#560 Ransack

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 12:40 PM

View PostNicholas Carlyle, on 15 April 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

Just curious, if Paul isn't reading this thread, is Niko?

I'm hoping our brand new community manager is taking notes to forward to the big boys who seem to have little time for us, beyond single posts now and then.


Nope. Comstar focus group has it's own little corner in the ignorverse.
What he typed is what they will release. Just like with 3PV, just like with UI2. We are wasting our collective breaths. Someof you have the patience of a saint being able to deal with a few trolls who have no use for a team queue. They don't want it so they feel that no one else has the right to want it. I wonder if they would be so vocal if the roles were reversed.
such a shame. This used to be the only game I played, now I might drop two hours a week. There are too many free to play, pay to play, and buy and play games that are just better than this game in it's current state. Especially when the devs are ignorant to the players.

Easy way to get feedback on player wishes is to put up a poll. Lock it so there can be no replies and put a notice on the splash screen at login. LET THE PLAYERS CHOOSE.





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