129 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Almighty Cico, on 16 April 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

Imagine that srms have perfect HSR, now imagine splatcat with THAT srms is waiting in cover, boom you are freakin cored everywhere... That srms would erase whole team once they came into range LOL

I would go with 350m/s at first and leave damage

Bah, imagine mechs with frontloaded alphas ranging from 30 to 40 damage with ranges over 600M. I don't fear the splatcats anymore.

This isn't broken splash damage doing over 15 damage per missile (that's potentially 90 damage per SRM6). It's a maximum of 15 damage. BIG difference.

[Solahma]

Mcgral18, on 16 April 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Honestly, give me a reason why there shouldn't be such a big change.

two words: Splat Cat

As Cico mentioned, when SRMs register correctly even in their current state, they do plenty of damage and feel balanced. However nudging the flight speed to 325 or 350 m/s might help in general.

IMO, the spread is fine. I can live with the spread. It scales well with Artemis and is not very complicated.

EDIT: you're not scared of the splat cat anymore because of good reasons. Mainly because of all the SRM nerfing over the past year. Bumping up stats quickly is just going to end up in a real SRMeggedon again.

Edited by Solahma, 16 April 2014 - 01:58 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Solahma, on 16 April 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

two words: Splat Cat

As Cico mentioned, when SRMs register correctly even in their current state, they do plenty of damage and feel balanced. However nudging the flight speed to 325 or 350 m/s might help in general.

IMO, the spread is fine. I can live with the spread. It scales well with Artemis and is not very complicated.

See above. Splash was causing a single SRM to do 15 damage, instead of an entire SRM 6 volley doing 15 damage.

We don't have splash. We have a sorry excuse for a brawling weapon. That doesn't even register.

Solahma, on 16 April 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

EDIT: you're not scared of the splat cat anymore because of good reasons. Mainly because of all the SRM nerfing over the past year. Bumping up stats quickly is just going to end up in a real SRMeggedon again.

Now that is just false. We're never going to get SRMagedden again without splash damage. There will be crying I'm sure, look at the LRMs.

At 1.1 damage they are whining, let alone at 1.8 damage they used to be (With splash on top of that). People simply aren't afraid of missiles, and couldn't even believe they could deal damage. They need to be made viable when you close into 270M.

Edited by Mcgral18, 16 April 2014 - 02:01 PM.

[Solahma]

Suggesting 500 m/s AND an extra 1/2 point per missile is still an absurd boost. Combine that with hit-registry improvements and you are STILL going to have splat cat 2.0

Similar to the latest LRM boost, it might not be as bad as it was last time, but it is still clearly a bad idea to boost something that high.

[Mcgral18]

Solahma, on 16 April 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Suggesting 500 m/s AND an extra 1/2 point per missile is still an absurd boost. Combine that with hit-registry improvements and you are STILL going to have splat cat 2.0

Similar to the latest LRM boost, it might not be as bad as it was last time, but it is still clearly a bad idea to boost something that high.

I highly doubt it.

With how pathetic they are now, they simply aren't worth the tonnage.

Besides, what wrong with having a viable mech? Maybe even one that doesn't need JJs.

[xCico]

Mcgral18, on 16 April 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Bah, imagine mechs with frontloaded alphas ranging from 30 to 40 damage with ranges over 600M. I don't fear the splatcats anymore.

This isn't broken splash damage doing over 15 damage per missile (that's potentially 90 damage per SRM6). It's a maximum of 15 damage. BIG difference.

Well I do see big difference with new ac5s and ppcs, you really need be under 400m even300m to pinpoint ac5 and ppc in same component, unless mech is standing, then you can pinpoint ac20 and ppc lol

Umm I didnt mention 1 missle will do15 damage as a 1 launcher of srm6 lets say it will be pretty strong, like you have 270m splashy gauss with 3 ton lol

[Mcgral18]

Almighty Cico, on 16 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Umm I didnt mention 1 missle will do15 damage as a 1 launcher of srm6 lets say it will be pretty strong, like you have 270m splashy gauss with 3 ton lol

You see, that's why the splatcat was feared, because SRMs were THAT broken. Doing 6 times their rated damage.

Besides, FLD VS spread damage is such a big spread, you simply can't compare them. You would need to do over 40 spread damage to compare to even 15 frontloaded, CoF depending. May the odds be ever in your favour.

[xCico]

Mcgral18, on 16 April 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

You see, that's why the splatcat was feared, because SRMs were THAT broken. Doing 6 times their rated damage.

Besides, FLD VS spread damage is such a big spread, you simply can't compare them. You would need to do over 40 spread damage to compare to even 15 frontloaded, CoF depending. May the odds be ever in your favour.

Didnt know that, but still 6xsrm6 even with ghost heat will do 90 dmg inside 270m with high speed in that range, ofc ghost heat would stop it from alpha it multiple time, chaining is maybe even worse due screenshake, but thats deeper stuffs...

Ofcourse you cant compare that two, pinpoint will always win, but this is an srm thread, I was just making some fact about current meta state, lets forget meta now...

[Mcgral18]

Almighty Cico, on 16 April 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

Didnt know that, but still 6xsrm6 even with ghost heat will do 90 dmg inside 270m with high speed in that range, ofc ghost heat would stop it from alpha it multiple time, chaining is maybe even worse due screenshake, but thats deeper stuffs...

Ofcourse you cant compare that two, pinpoint will always win, but this is an srm thread, I was just making some fact about current meta state, lets forget meta now...

At 90 damage (the absolute maximum you can get with current mechs) you actually have a reason to get into 200M, and the long range weapons might just have something to fear. As it is, there is no reward to get close, not until you reach 90M. Besides, the heat (even without ghost heat) and ammo consumption is insane. And with something that speed and size, I wish them luck getting close to any decent long range build intact. If you lose an arm, down to 45 damage. Spread damage.

There needs to be a risk VS reward for brawling. As it currently stands, it's all risk, and no reward.

[Khobai]

Quote

Suggesting 500 m/s AND an extra 1/2 point per missile is still an absurd boost. Combine that with hit-registry improvements and you are STILL going to have splat cat 2.0

Nope. Without absurd splash damage you cant have splatcat 2.0

Old splatcat SRMs = 3 damage per missile, 4m splash radius, and 100% splash damage!
Current SRMs = 2 damage per missile, 1m splash radius, and 40% splash damage

So bumping SRMs upto 2.5 damage per missile is entirely reasonable and wouldnt even come close to splatcat 2.0

Quote

At 90 damage (the absolute maximum you can get with current mechs)

SRMs do 2 damage each so an SRM6 does 12 damage. The most you can do is 72 damage without splash damage. With maximum splash damage (40%) you can do upto 101 damage. So 6SRM6 should do somewhere between 72-101 damage if all missiles hit the target and register damage properly. Although with a 1m splash radius youre generally only going to get consistent splash damage vs lights and mediums.

Edited by Khobai, 16 April 2014 - 02:34 PM.

[xCico]

Mcgral18, on 16 April 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

At 90 damage (the absolute maximum you can get with current mechs) you actually have a reason to get into 200M, and the long range weapons might just have something to fear. As it is, there is no reward to get close, not until you reach 90M. Besides, the heat (even without ghost heat) and ammo consumption is insane. And with something that speed and size, I wish them luck getting close to any decent long range build intact. If you lose an arm, down to 45 damage. Spread damage.

There needs to be a risk VS reward for brawling. As it currently stands, it's all risk, and no reward.

Well I see a point, no arguments to that, but dunno should that be smart, and yet we are using splatcat as example, what about atlas DDC with standard ac20, 3srm6 and 2ml/ll, i do think that would be even worse than splatcat.
Well I stand behind my srms, now its matter of time when we will see final buffed working srms.

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 16 April 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

Nope. Without absurd splash damage you cant have splatcat 2.0

Old splatcat SRMs = 3 damage per missile, 4m splash radius, and 100% splash damage!
Current SRMs = 2 damage per missile, 1m splash radius, and 40% splash damage

So bumping SRMs upto 2.5 damage per missile is entirely reasonable and wouldnt even come close to splatcat 2.0



SRMs do 2 damage each so an SRM6 does 12 damage. The most you can do is 72 damage without splash damage. With maximum splash damage (40%) you can do upto 101 damage. So 6SRM6 should do somewhere between 72-101 damage if all missiles hit the target and register damage properly. Although with a 1m splash radius youre generally only going to get consistent splash damage vs lights and mediums.

Splash is non-existent at 5cm currently. The 90 damage is at the theoretical 2.5 damage per missile.

Not even sure if those 5cm can lead to splash damage.

[TehSBGX]

Mister Blastman, on 15 April 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

1. They spread out way too much. Let the pilots use their skill. Put SRM spread mechanics back to the variable in-out-in spread of closed beta.

I've wanted the old flight path back for so long, honestly it seems like the old flight path didn't have hit any reg issues even without HSR.

[Flying Blind]

I never stopped using srm because I like them and I like to brawl. Last nigh I had some good games including a 3 kill and over 800 damage game, a few in the 700s and more in 500s. Before this last patch running the same mechs and load outs I did 300s reliably, and 500s or 600 on a good game, so I guess you could say there has been an improvement but despite the damage numbers they just don't feel more dangerous. Before this patch I was getting 2 to 4 kill matches regularly when I could get in and brawl. That was exactly my experience last night: when I could get in to brawl I did well but when I couldn't or chose the wrong time or place I died.

The bottom line is this:
SRMs are more limited by their short range in a long range meta and their spread pattern than hit detection. Even at 100% hit detection they are not going to stand up to the other weapons unless they get some other kind of buff.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

What we got now is some sort of MRM, what we need is real SRMs. In short, thay need total rework as thay basic design is bad.

[Deathlike]

Flying Blind, on 16 April 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

I never stopped using srm because I like them and I like to brawl. Last nigh I had some good games including a 3 kill and over 800 damage game, a few in the 700s and more in 500s. Before this last patch running the same mechs and load outs I did 300s reliably, and 500s or 600 on a good game, so I guess you could say there has been an improvement but despite the damage numbers they just don't feel more dangerous. Before this patch I was getting 2 to 4 kill matches regularly when I could get in and brawl. That was exactly my experience last night: when I could get in to brawl I did well but when I couldn't or chose the wrong time or place I died.

The bottom line is this:
SRMs are more limited by their short range in a long range meta and their spread pattern than hit detection. Even at 100% hit detection they are not going to stand up to the other weapons unless they get some other kind of buff.

I will reconsider that thought after the next patch's SRM fix.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 April 2014 - 04:30 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Solahma, on 16 April 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

two words: Splat Cat

I'm not scared of a Splat Cat at all. What I am scared of is a HGN-733C or a Dragonslayer pumping 2x AC 5 + 2x PPCs into me over and over again as I try in vain to get my BJ-1 close enough... and live long enough... to hurt them.

Splat Cats are a joke.

I for one look forward to the new SRM-ageddon. Let it rain. It sure as hell will beat the stale crap PPC-snipefest we've been dealing with for a year.

[Deathlike]

Mister Blastman, on 16 April 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

I'm not scared of a Splat Cat at all. What I am scared of is a HGN-733C or a Dragonslayer pumping 2x AC 5 + 2x PPCs into me over and over again as I try in vain to get my BJ-1 close enough... and live long enough... to hurt them.

Splat Cats are a joke.

I for one look forward to the new SRM-ageddon. Let it rain. It sure as hell will beat the stale crap PPC-snipefest we've been dealing with for a year.

Paul doesn't want the Splatcat meta. He likes the DS-733C meta more. Russ said so!

;P

[Mister Blastman]

Deathlike, on 16 April 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

Paul doesn't want the Splatcat meta. He likes the DS-733C meta more. Russ said so!

;P

I have something I could say to that in reply but most likely it would get me in big trouble. And it is about Paul. So I'll just be quiet.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 16 April 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

Paul doesn't want the Splatcat meta. He likes the DS-733C Trebuchet meta more.

Fixed.