63 replies to this topic

[Foxfire]

Nothing ruins scouting for non-ECM as fast as someone who takes a momentary glance behind them. Not even an active action, in most cases, as it is moving back into cover of any sort.. and scouting is instantly negated if you aren't running an ECM mech.

Make spotting an active activity.. or atleast something that isn't an instant free action.. and you instantly increase the value of non-12 man scouting in this game.

One simple change.

[Shatterpoint]

Out of curiosity..Magic Dorito? is there some meaning to that?.

[Foxfire]

That nice red triangle that appears above an enemy mech the instant they are on your screen(unless they have ECM) that lets you see where they are, no matter if you actually saw them yourself nor how much of their mech that you saw.

[Daekar]

I think the OP has a point, it's just not articulated well. Maybe he will clarify?

[Artgathan]

Foxfire, on 21 April 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

That nice red triangle that appears above an enemy mech the instant they are on your screen(unless they have ECM) that lets you see where they are, no matter if you actually saw them yourself nor how much of their mech that you saw.

I think you need to be able to see > 75% of the mech to be able to get a radar contact. I'm not sure what the exact number is though.

[Foxfire]

The point is that spotting in this game is too easy. This is mostly because PGI made the decision to include the C3 system as a freebie in every mech which allows each mech to pass along information easily. It should be an investment to be able to pass along position, targeting, and configuration information at the speed that we currently do(only ~1 second delay between spotting the target and providing targeting information to the entire team). Granted, I don't think that it would be reasonable to expect people to set up full C3 Slave/Master networks but that the current ability to pass information should take much longer to do unless you equip specialized equipment to do so.

Artgathan, on 21 April 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

I think you need to be able to see > 75% of the mech to be able to get a radar contact. I'm not sure what the exact number is though.

This is another issue.. though I think that it would be reduced if they made spotting and target relaying more specialized.

[OneEyed Jack]

Foxfire, on 21 April 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

The point is that spotting in this game is too easy. This is mostly because PGI made the decision to include the C3 system as a freebie in every mech which allows each mech to pass along information easily.

Go read what C3 does. It literally does nothing that is represented in this game at all. Targeting data and data on the target are not even remotely the same thing.

[Diablobo]

Actually, the idea that the mech's sensors are only capable of picking up enemies in the line of sight is ridiculous. A simple 360 degree radar that works out to max sensor range should be on every mech. It's 20th century basic technology that they don't have in the 31st? I don't think so.
There should however, be lower ranged passive sensors that would enable the mech to get closer without being detected.

Edited by Diablobo, 21 April 2014 - 11:36 PM.

[Graugger]

Great so now we're nerfing the ability to target mechs... I suppose you want to add romulan cloaking as well for your light mech?

If you were scouting you'd be at a distance... I think you just want to be able to walk up behind someone in an assault mech and core their back without them knowing you're there... as if hitting light mechs wasn't hard enough with the broken scaling system.

[Appogee]

Diablobo, on 21 April 2014 - 11:35 PM, said:

There should however, be lower ranged passive sensors that would enable the mech to get closer without being detected.

MWLL had this ... active sensors (longer range, but chance of being detected) vs passive sensors (short range, but stealthy).

It was a huge benefit to the information warfare aspect of the game. In a game you would consciously toggle between the active to try to ping the enemy while remaining as stealthy as possible. You would watch the minimap carefully to see whether they'd picked up your ping and headed your way. You could have one Mech actively ping in order to bait the enemy into a trap.

It was wonderful. MWO would be so much better if they picked up this idea.

Edited by Appogee, 22 April 2014 - 12:52 AM.

[El Bandito]

Appogee, on 22 April 2014 - 12:49 AM, said:

MWLL had this ... active sensors (longer range, but chance of being detected) vs passive sensors (short range, but stealthy).

Hell, even MW2 had passive and active sensors. The concept is ancient. PGI is just...ugh.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 April 2014 - 01:06 AM.

[Appogee]

I'm going to Tweet Russ asking him to consider adding passive vs active sensors.

The more Tweets he gets on it, the more likely he might consider it, just saying...

[Foxfire]

Graugger, on 21 April 2014 - 11:50 PM, said:

Great so now we're nerfing the ability to target mechs... I suppose you want to add romulan cloaking as well for your light mech?

If you were scouting you'd be at a distance... I think you just want to be able to walk up behind someone in an assault mech and core their back without them knowing you're there... as if hitting light mechs wasn't hard enough with the broken scaling system.

As an example, Frozen City last night, I moved around the enemy line, take up position at the edge of the ridge on the east side near the south base(behind the enemy line, not parallel to the drop ship) to spot enemies at the saddle. All it took to wreck my effort was on person at the hill, to make a turn to move down the hill to be counter spotted. It only took a second and the entire effort was worthless.

Oh, I am not saying to get rid of targeting but to slow down the rate at which you are identified and highlighted. The current near instantaneous tagging of enemies makes the scout a useless entity on the battlefield.

[GalaxyBluestar]

the current target by friendly sight system will become redundant {cept indirect lrms} when everyone has VOIP which pgi are considering now.

perhaps changing over to passive radar toggle and a limited radar simillar to old MW might be on the cards for 2015.

[Hawks]

Diablobo, on 21 April 2014 - 11:35 PM, said:

Actually, the idea that the mech's sensors are only capable of picking up enemies in the line of sight is ridiculous. A simple 360 degree radar that works out to max sensor range should be on every mech. It's 20th century basic technology that they don't have in the 31st? I don't think so.
There should however, be lower ranged passive sensors that would enable the mech to get closer without being detected.

Radar aside, canonically mechs should have rear vision displays. IIRC the issue with this is that the Cryengine is unable to support a screen within a screen.

[Khobai]

IMO the problem isnt the fact mechs get detected automatically on sensors. The problem is the fact you can SEE mechs before your sensors even detect them. It makes any kindve stealth impossible.

[Karl Streiger]

Khobai, on 22 April 2014 - 02:53 AM, said:

IMO the problem isnt the fact mechs get detected automatically on sensors. The problem is the fact you can SEE mechs before your sensors even detect them. It makes any kindve stealth impossible.

And that you can see them . and your sensors are not able to identify those 100tons of metal heat and energy - but if you can point an IR beam on them - you get all the information you need.

Information Warfare at its best? Go read the MWLL wiki

[Khobai]

sensor range should extend beyond visual sight range. The problem is the maps are too damn small to do that.

[Lupin]

He who relies just on radar/sensors is a DEAD mech.

Edited by Lupin, 22 April 2014 - 03:18 AM.

[Appogee]