63 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Artgathan, on 21 April 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

I think you need to be able to see > 75% of the mech to be able to get a radar contact. I'm not sure what the exact number is though.

how much of the "seeing" is required by sensors though? I know if I am using Mk1 Eyeballs it takes longer to process what I am seeing, but how long does sensors and a computer need?

[Artgathan]

Hawks, on 22 April 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

Radar aside, canonically mechs should have rear vision displays. IIRC the issue with this is that the Cryengine is unable to support a screen within a screen.

In canon the pilot's HUD is actually a compressed 360 degree view, so that images at the extreme left and right of the pilot's vision are actually behind them. No MW game to date has done this correctly. To be fair though, it would make it much harder to maneuver stealthily.

Joseph Mallan, on 22 April 2014 - 04:13 AM, said:

how much of the "seeing" is required by sensors though? I know if I am using Mk1 Eyeballs it takes longer to process what I am seeing, but how long does sensors and a computer need?

It depends on the sensors I suppose. Given that during the Clan Invasion, Inner Sphere mechs would flip between identifying a Timberwolf as a Catapult or Marauder I believe IS mechs use some sort of LOS identification of the target (if it was identifying mechs based on IFF or Transponder frequencies it just would not have ID'd the Timberwolf since it didn't have a data entry for it) based on the physical shape of the contact.

[El Bandito]

If the devs were more competent they could have included heavy weather and magnetic fields playing tricks with the sensors. One good instance can be Frozen City's blizzard having global ECM-esque effect on everyone while only TAG can pierce through it. That sure will make people carry slightly different loadouts.

Similar idea on HPG map where heavy metal constructions confuse the sensors.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 April 2014 - 05:55 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

You know what I like more than a good smart ash answer? A good answer! That is a good answer Art!

[Sephlock]

Diablobo, on 21 April 2014 - 11:35 PM, said:

Actually, the idea that the mech's sensors are only capable of picking up enemies in the line of sight is ridiculous. A simple 360 degree radar that works out to max sensor range should be on every mech. It's 20th century basic technology that they don't have in the 31st? I don't think so.
There should however, be lower ranged passive sensors that would enable the mech to get closer without being detected.

The minovsky particles block the radar waves .

[Tombstoner]

The game is also a TT port so weapons/radar dont have the functional equivalence of real tech. thus i can see mechs in the distance but a simple movement algorithm cant tell the difference between what moved in frame 39 vs. frame 2. let alone using microphones to listen for mechs running at 140 kph.

I know a guy who works down the street from me on a project called boomerang and its a counter sniper triangulation device. when a shot is fired it instantly back calculats where the shooter is located. its a simple multi directional microphone with about 9 sensors and a display.

So passive acoustic sensors for stationary mechs are entirely possible particularly once combat starts..... but MWO suffers from a schizophrenic multiple personality disorder.

[FREDtheDEAD]

Lets not make this game even harder for new players by crippling the HUD. Prediction: this will never happen.

[Almond Brown]

El Bandito, on 22 April 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

If the devs were more competent they could have included heavy weather and magnetic fields playing tricks with the sensors. One good instance can be Frozen City's blizzard having global ECM-esque effect on everyone while only TAG can pierce through it. That sure will make people carry slightly different loadouts.

Similar idea on HGP map where heavy metal constructions confuse the sensors.

Gotta ask. If you're in a blinding blizzardand your C3 computer is down, how in the hell do you know where to point that TAG laser.

"Use the Force Luke!" LOL!

[Rebas Kradd]

Appogee, on 22 April 2014 - 12:49 AM, said:

MWLL had this ... active sensors (longer range, but chance of being detected) vs passive sensors (short range, but stealthy).

It was a huge benefit to the information warfare aspect of the game. In a game you would consciously toggle between the active to try to ping the enemy while remaining as stealthy as possible. You would watch the minimap carefully to see whether they'd picked up your ping and headed your way. You could have one Mech actively ping in order to bait the enemy into a trap.

It was wonderful. MWO would be so much better if they picked up this idea.

It would lose a lot of players, too.

[Joseph Mallan]

Rebas Kradd, on 22 April 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

It would lose a lot of players, too.

And possibly bring back others....

[Tatula]

Scouting doesn't require having LOS of the enemy for long periods of time. Just need to report approximate position and heading of the main enemy forces or if the enemy has split off to flank. On the other hand, if you want keep LOS of the enemy forces so you can target them for LRMs, then they SHOULD be able to see you if they turn around. It's only fair.

[Rebas Kradd]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 April 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

And possibly bring back others....

It would lose more than it gained. You can only complicate breathing in a video game so much before you lose the balance.

[Graugger]

How about we just remove the HUD altogether, you'd like that right! I so hope PGI does this.

[Appogee]

Rebas Kradd, on 22 April 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

It would lose a lot of players, too.

Why? It added a whole other layer of interest to the game.

[Diablobo]

I know someone has posted about this before, but I also really hate how turrets have the same color doritos as regular teammates. They should differentiate them in some way.

[MischiefSC]

Better idea - have a 1.5 ton ECM module for any light and many mediums that just give that specific mech ECM benefits, not ninja stealth team cloak.

Won't happen though. PGI has gone through a huge amount of effort to utterly, completely and effectively destroy information warfare as an aspect of the game because.... reasons nobody has ever been able to comprehend. At this point it's so completely and pointlessly ruined that you really can't do much else to it to make it worse, thus it will see no changes.

[El Bandito]

Almond Brown, on 22 April 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

Gotta ask. If you're in a blinding blizzardand your C3 computer is down, how in the hell do you know where to point that TAG laser. "Use the Force Luke!" LOL!

That's where mechwarrior's intuition comes into play.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 April 2014 - 10:35 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Hawks, on 22 April 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

Radar aside, canonically mechs should have rear vision displays. IIRC the issue with this is that the Cryengine is unable to support a screen within a screen.

Huh? I thought that was the old excuse...

[Aresye]

I definitely think the RADAR system in this game could use some tweaks. As it stands right now, there is no active/passive toggle, and there's only a very small number of variants that can equip ECM.

Considering the focus on this game is (now) on the solo player experience, teamwork can no longer be an excuse for the reasons why RADAR and ECM work as they do currently. It all boils down to luck.

I think the original intention was so that players would have to rely on eachother as a team, utilizing their ECM mechs in tandom with overall team movement to be stealthy. Unfortunately, there is no say on what ECM mechs will be on your team (if any), and whether or not they'll be supporting the team or running off on their own.

So you end up in a match with no ECM mechs and no AMS on Caustic Valley, and the other team is sporting ECM, TAG, NARC, missile boats, and meta poptarts. Is this teamwork winning the day? Absolutely not. You have no control on what your teammates will bring.

The limitations of having so few mechs with any kind of ECM is completely broken as long as teams are completely random and have no control over pre-game planning.

I'm all for implementing an active/passive function that only impacts a player's own mech. Players should have some level of control over their ability to be targeted besides chosing from a small list of variants or relying on random chance from the matchmaker.

[Troutmonkey]

GalaxyBluestar, on 22 April 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:

when everyone has VOIP which pgi are considering now.

Source please! I've been asking for VOIP for months now, and would love to see it come our way