205 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

Prezimonto, on 24 April 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

That's right. Compromise. In this case, find a solution that's easy to implement, and achieves the goal.

Well that is eazy peazy. All Mechs come Stock. can only mod Internals, Armor and Engine. Add Modules. Done. Oh wait...

Unsure how many would play it or how many Mechs would see use but it would surely be fair.

[Almond Brown]

zagibu, on 25 April 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

Because sized hardpoints would have been a better way to make 4/6 PPC builds impossible than what they did with ghost heat.

But some would do away with 2 x AC20 builds, say on a Banshee? WTF! Seriously. Try and get that past the Banshee Tribunal. LOL!

[Almond Brown]

Wieland, on 25 April 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

I was talking about the PPC 2xAC5 one.

And what exactly is wrong with a ammo dependent, 20 point Alpha, Ranged Striker build again?

[Almond Brown]

Butane9000, on 25 April 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

stuff

And if you have been reading along, that is exactly the rub of that type of System. It is not inherently better than the current unrestricted system.

The end result is the same.

Quote

while making certain variants more useful.

It can't be said any better really. Well posted good sir.

[Almond Brown]

dimstog, on 26 April 2014 - 12:32 AM, said:

Maybe it's exactly as you say, that there's finally some balance enabling different loadouts - though I personally have never been able to make LB-10X or SLs work in anything other than a "fun" build and will always fit the largest AC I fit.

I could however make the argument that a restricted system would not be unable to reach such a balance, in fact I believe it would be able to reach it much more easily than the current one.

And I wonder, under this/any new restricted system, you would be able to make the LB-10X and or SL work... if not, then it is not the build system at fault.

[Almond Brown]

Relic1701, on 28 April 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

I've been banging on about since some bright spark took 2 tiny machine guns out of the K2, and replaced then two honking great AC20's, back in June 2 years ago.....

And paid a terrible price in BOTH speed and armor protection. It is that "trade off" that the "other system" would not ever allow.

That would make me sad and I don;t drive a CataWhack much at all.

[3rdworld]

RedDragon, on 27 April 2014 - 01:43 AM, said:

Well, they would render GH obsolete, because the only mech that could carry 3 PPCs would be the Awesome. And that one has so many drawbacks (no JJ, slow, big target) that meta humpers won't cling to it.
And we wouldn't need that stupid Gauss recharge any more, because there would be... wait for it... not a single mech that could carry 2 Gauss, let alone Gauss + 2 PPCs (maybe not even Gauss + PPC, but there may be a variant out there I can't think of right now... wouldn't be a problem though).

Dragon Slayer (PPC Gauss)
Protector (PPC Gauss)
Maybe Firebrand (2 PPC + 2 AC/5 depending on your flavor)
CTF-1X (PPC Gauss)
La Maliche (PPC Gauss)
BNC-3S (can still use 2PPC + Gauss)
Ilya (gauss + 2 AC/5s)

after a little checking PPC + Gauss or some similar combination.....Notice all the hero mechs? Sounds like a great idea to me.

Oh and pretty much all Clan mechs.

Edited by 3rdworld, 28 April 2014 - 02:03 PM.

[Prezimonto]

Almond Brown, on 28 April 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

Well that is eazy peazy. All Mechs come Stock. can only mod Internals, Armor and Engine. Add Modules. Done. Oh wait...

Unsure how many would play it or how many Mechs would see use but it would surely be fair.

That's really only a compromise if all those upgrades are rare and hard to maintain at the least. They're supposed to be hard to find, difficult to repair, and fairly tightly controlled by the governments. Instead upgrades are essential to a mech's build in this game if you want to be competitive with very few exceptions.

[Rebas Kradd]

Jun Watarase, on 25 April 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

It is obvious that making ballistic hardpoint changes would take a substantial amount of time and resources...and PGI really doesn't like that.

I'm sorry, that's just the dumbest statement I've seen since the last time Paris Hilton opened her mouth. PGI is a tiny studio with extremely limited resources. That's why progress is slow, and you know it.

If you don't like it, you should have asked PGI back in 2011 how big their studio was. Did anyone do that? At all?

[Sybreed]

Almond Brown, on 28 April 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

Good point Sybreed. Perhaps SC can be the "Litmus" test to see how many of the (hopefully 100's) ships they design that actually see Battle regularly after the min/max'ers run up a quick spreadsheet.

Well, SC is based around role warfare, unlike MWO. I don't expect a m50 interceptor to be able to fit a capital class railgun, neither is it supposed to be able to fit a class 5 turret. That's not what the ship is designed for. Min-Maxers might go for the same combo of weapons that do the best together, but they won't be able to always fit the biggest "1-strike alpha" thing they can.

Besides, SC isn't the only game to add limits to its customization. Hawken is another good example, so is Freespace 2 and X:3. Most games had limits to its customization, even single player games. MWO is actually a shining example of why unlimited customization is worse than having limits.

[Choppah]

Man it took me a while to read through all this. Anyways...

While a valid concern has been raised about certain chassis variants being unviable with maximum hardpoint size (MHS for short) restrictions. It seems posters are neglecting future weapon systems yet to be added. Whenever the devs release new weapons, it will cause certain mechs, especially ones with small hardpoint sizes, to have more options for loadouts.
Example: if MHS were implemented today, Jagermechs would be one of the hardest hit chassis, notably the A. Being limited to a single ballistic crit slot in each arm would devastate that variant’s options. However, there are a several unimplemented ballistic weapons that are 1 crit slot: Light AC2, Light Rifle, Heavy MG, and Light MG.

While that may not seem like much, the devs don’t have to restrict the A to its stock hardpoint size. The MWO implementation of this TT variant is a perfect example of a mech with more hardpoints than the stock loadout. Who is to say those missile hardpoints wouldn’t fill up the rest of the slots in each arm? So say each missile MHS is 5 slots, about the only missile weapons that could not be used would be the MRM40 and LRM20 +Artemis. If they also increased the ballistic MHS to just 3 slots, then you could mount a Light AC5, Medium Rifle, Heavy Rifle, UAC2, Rotary AC2, or Magshot. No one has said so far that the combined MHS of each hardpoint can’t be greater than the crit slots in that component*. There would be plenty of combinations of weapons to make that variant a distinct and viable heavy mech.

*Note: Obviously, I am not suggesting the ability to exceed the critical slots in a component. In this example the JM6-A has a max of 10 slots in each arm. Meaning, you still could not mount 2 missile weapons of 5 slots each and a 3 slot ballistic. You just have the option to fit in weapons up to that size.

That being said, MHS will never balance weapons. Which is a separate issue that keeps creeping into this thread. Weapon balance can only come from adjusting each weapon’s stats and function. This thread should continue pursuing solutions to diversify mech variants, which is what the goal of MHS should be. I would love to see a suggestion for mechs like the Stalker 4N, MHS would make that mech even more pointless. Adjusting quirks for mechs that are redundant is necessary now, with MHS… I don’t know how big of a buff would be needed. Engine cap 345 and max torso twist 95 degrees for the 4N? Energy slot in the CT? Some combination of MHS and quirks is what I’m thinking of. Post yours.

Edited by Choppah, 28 April 2014 - 09:02 PM.

[Koniving]

How about instead of worrying about hardpoint sizes.... (Because lets face it, 2+ years of begging "do hardpoints" and 2+ years of "No" means hardpoint sizes are a lost cause.) Why not use ARMOR? It's the only thing with no unique cap on it.

PGI capped Clan armor which makes Clan mechs truly unique, but without a cap on Inner Sphere armor, we'll never have unique Inner Sphere mechs.

Key words being unique cap. It's this big unique thing in battletech, but every 65 ton mech you find in MWO has exactly the same armor whether it's the paper-thin armored Jagermech, the Catapult whose armor is supposed to be identical to the Hunchback or the Thunderbolt that in lore rivals Stalkers in armor!

Think about that for a minute. Without any balancing or thought what-so-ever on how to change anything, just think about stock armor + x amount...and how we would instantly make the game infinitely more diverse without lifting a finger. With stock as the basis for new armor limits, would we not then see more lore-friendly mechs? Like how the Awesome has at minimum 3.5 tons more armor than every Victor in existence for example. Or how the Dragon 1C has more armor than most 60, 65, some 70, some 75, some 80 ton mechs and almost just almost rivals some 85 ton mechs in stock armor.

That's amazing, isn't it?

Someone started a thread on an idea that I've been brewing for ages. I just have been more subtle with my idea before now. You should check it out.

Edited by Koniving, 28 April 2014 - 09:29 PM.

[DeadlyNerd]

We can suggest this all we want, but while Paul is on his island, or while he exists in PGI, this will never happen.

[MustrumRidcully]

Man, I don't post for a few days, and people come back with this old idea...

Hardpoint sizes are not fundamentally a bad idea, but they fail as balancing mechanic in a Battletech-based game, because Battletech has plenty of mechs that have "problematic" weapon combinations that a hardpoint size system could not touch.

The system also became fundemantally unnecessary IMO when PGI started to change models so they would show what weapons you have equipped. Now there are no more visual disconnects of tiny MG slots shooting AC/20 - the tiny MG is replaced with a huge AC/20, and the model makes you believe that it's possible.

If you create your own Stompy Robot game, a system of hard point sizes and hard point types can probably used as balancing tool, since you can make up your own mechs and are not restricted to pre-existing lore lore configs.

[moneyBURNER]

Almond Brown, on 24 April 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

Provide a COMPLETE and comprehensive new system for ALL the Current and any Future Mechs and present it. Then the Community can chew on it and see what spits out.

It is unfair to say the current system is bad, make a half assed attempt to fix it, and then blame the Dev when they don't suddenly change the WHOLE system based on what? That half assed attempt of a fix?

Okay, here's an example of sized hardpoints for all current variants referenced from Smurfy's site (with shared or unshared slots per location, but no weapon number changes obviously) for the purpose of facilitating the removal of ghost heat, with a reasonable view towards physical plausibility with standardized weapon model sizes.

Since the game is well-established and people have accustomed expectations, the changes made here are a lot more subtle than they should've been from the start, and mainly deal with limiting large energy weapons for boating or for overly effective synergy with ballistics.

The Catapult K2, for instance, should've had ballistic hardpoints that were limited to 5 or 6 slots at the most, but with its current negative quirks, and power creep from newer mechs, no extra restrictions have been placed on it. All AC40 mechs remain possible! All stock builds remain valid. However, with sized hardpoints, a framework would be in place to easily tweak potentially problematic variants together with the quirk system and further weapon balancing.

These hardpoint changes are meant to enhance tradeoffs with the following goals:

- The heaviest mechs with the most hardpoints in the best locations aren't automatically able to mount the most large weapons of that type.

- The best jump-capable mechs aren't able to equip as many PPC/ERPPCs as other mechs in the same class, or mount them in the most optimal chassis locations for poptarting.

- Certain mechs that have exceptional versatility with different loadouts are tuned to be more specialized so that other mechs can excel with a specific build.

Some restrictions serve no practical purpose other than to maintain design consistency.


Types of weapon/hardpoint slots (converted from available standard critical slots when occupied):

E = energy
sB = small ballistic/machine gun (for the sake of consistency and completeness, this addresses special cases like the locust arm with a 2-ballistic hardpoint, where placing 2 AC2s would amount to a massive 12 tons. 2 small ballistic slots = 1 ballistic slot)
B = ballistic
M = missle
U = universal (a floating slot for use with any hardpoint to boost its size and allow a larger weapon to fit in any one location with an available standard critical slot)

Syntax for a shared-slot hardpoint: [# of weapons] [type of weapon] / [# of slots] s

If the slot is a small ballistic, then it is indicated as: (sB)

ex: a 3-energy/3-slot hardpoint is expressed as 3E/3s, and can fit 3 one-slot weapons, or 1 two-slot and 1 one-slot, or 1 three-slot

ex #2: a 2-ballistic/2 small ballistic slot hardpoint is expressed as 2B/2(sB)s, and can fit 2 machine guns or 1 AC2

ex #3: if a mech has a universal slot (U/1s), and a 1E/2s and 1M/3s hardpoint, then it can carry a PPC using 1E/2s + U/1s, or an LRM15+artemis using 1M/3s + U/1s, but not both a PPC and an aLRM15



LIGHT:



Locust (20t): Limited to 1 large weapon per arm, despite sufficient limitations with the current slot/weight system.

LCT-1E: LA [3E/3s]; LT []; CT []; RT []; RA [3E/3s]; H [];

LCT-1M: LA [1M/4s]; LT []; CT [2E/2s]; RT []; RA [1M/4s]; H []; (able to carry up to an aLRM15 in the arm)

LCT-1V: LA [1B/4s, 1B/1(sB)s]; LT []; CT [1E/2s]; RT []; RA [1B/4s, 1B/1(sB)s]; H []; (the arm has 2 separate ballistic hardpoints and can fit up to 1 AC5 + 1 MG)

LCT-3M: LA [2E/3s]; LT []; CT [1E/2s]; RT []; RA [2E/3s]; H [];

LCT-3S: LA [2M/4s]; LT []; CT [1E/2s]; RT []; RA [2M/4s]; H []; (the arm can fit up to 1 aLRM15, or 2 LRM10s, or 2 aLRM5s)



Commando (25t): Limited to 1 large weapon per arm.

COM-1B: LA [1E/3s]; LT []; CT [1M/2s]; RT []; RA [2E/3s]; H [];

COM-1D: LA []; LT []; CT [2M/2s]; RT []; RA [2E/3s]; H [];

COM-2D: LA [1E/3s]; LT []; CT [1M/2s]; RT []; RA [2M/4s]; H [];

COM-3A: U/1s; LA [1E/3s]; LT []; CT [1M/2s]; RT []; RA [1E/2s, 1M/3s]; H [];

*COM-TDK: LA [2E/3s]; LT []; CT []; RT []; RA [2E/3s]; H [];



Spider (30t): Limited to 1 large weapon per arm.

SDR-5D: LA []; LT []; CT [1E/2s]; RT []; RA [2E/3s]; H [];

SDR-5K: LA [1B/6s, 1B/1(sB)s]; LT []; CT [1E/2s]; RT []; RA [1B/6s, 1B/1(sB)s]; H [];

SDR-5V: LA []; LT []; CT [1E/2s]; RT []; RA []; H []; (no extra restrictions)



Firestarter (35t): A PPC can be equipped in the arms, but not in the side torsos. The fluff justification for being able to fit a large ballistic in the torso, but not a PPC, is that the PPC's core components are larger and its parts can't be distributed as freely.

FS9-A: LA [2E/3s]; LT [1E/2s]; CT [2E/2s]; RT [1E/2s]; RA [2E/3s]; H [];

FS9-H: LA [2E/3s]; LT [1B/6s]; CT [2E/2s]; RT [1B/6s]; RA [2E/3s]; H [];

FS9-K: LA [3E/3s]; LT []; CT [2E/2s]; RT []; RA [3E/3s]; H [];

FS9-S: LA [2E/3s]; LT []; CT [2E/2s]; RT [1E/2s]; RA [2E/3s]; H [];

*FS9-E: LA [2E/3s]; LT [1B/6s, 1B/1(sB)s]; CT []; RT [1B/6s, 1B/1(sB)s]; RA [2E/3s]; H [];



Jenner (35t): Limited to 1 large weapon per arm.

JR7-D: LA [2E/3s]; LT []; CT [2M/2s]; RT []; RA [2E/3s]; H [];

JR7-F: LA [3E/3s]; LT []; CT []; RT []; RA [3E/3s]; H [];

JR7-K: LA [2E/3s]; LT []; CT [1M/2s]; RT []; RA [2E/3s]; H [];

*JR7-O: LA [1M/6s]; LT []; CT [2M/2s]; RT []; RA [1M/6s]; H []; (no extra restrictions for currently available weapons)



Raven (35t): Compared to other lights, the Raven's narrow torso and elongated side profile allows it to fit 2 large lasers or ballistics in a single location, and also carry the biggest ballistics.

RVN-2X: LA []; LT [2E/4s]; CT []; RT [2M/8s]; RA [2E/4s]; H [];

RVN-3L: LA [1M/6s]; LT []; CT []; RT [1E/3s, 1M/6s]; RA [1E/2s, 1E/2s]; H []; (the right arm can't fit a PPC)

RVN-4X: LA [2B/10s]; LT []; CT []; RT [1M/6s]; RA [2E/4s]; H [];

*RVN-H: LA [2B/10s]; LT [1M/6s]; CT []; RT [1M/6s]; RA [2B/10s]; H []; (no extra restrictions for currently available weapons)



MEDIUM:



Cicada (40t):

CDA-2A: LA []; LT [2E/5s]; CT [2E/2s]; RT [2E/5s]; RA []; H []; (limited to 1 PPC per side torso)

CDA-2B: LA [2E/5s]; LT []; CT [2E/2s]; RT []; RA [2E/5s]; H []; (limited to 1 PPC per arm)

CDA-3C: LA []; LT [2B/12s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s, 2B/12s]; RA []; H []; (no extra restrictions)

CDA-3M: LA []; LT [1E/3s, 1B/6s]; CT [2E/2s]; RT [1E/3s]; RA []; H []; (limited to a 6-slot ballistic)

*CDA-X5: LA [1E/4s]; LT [1E/3s, 1M/6s]]; CT []; RT [1E/3s, 1M/6s]; RA [1E/4s]; H []; (no extra restrictions for currently available weapons)



Blackjack (45t): It can equip multiple large weapons in the arms, but no PPCs in the side torsos.

BJ-1: LA [1E/4s, 1B/10s]; LT [1E/2s]; CT []; RT [1E/2s]; RA [1E/4s, 1B/10s]; H [];

BJ-1DC: LA [1E/4s, 1B/10s]; LT [2E/2s]; CT []; RT [2E/2s]; RA [1E/4s, 1B/10s]; H [];

BJ-1X: LA [2E/5s, 1E/2s]; LT [1E/2s]; CT []; RT [1E/2s]; RA [2E/5s, 1E/2s]; H []; (limited to 1 PPC per arm)

BJ-3: LA [2E/5s]; LT [1E/2s]; CT []; RT [1E/2s]; RA [2E/5s]; H [];



Centurion (50t): No extra restrictions for current variants.

CN9-A: LA []; LT [3M/12s]; CT [2E/2s]; RT []; RA [1B/9s]; H [];

CN9-AL: LA []; LT [2M/12s]; CT [2E/2s]; RT []; RA [2E/8s]; H [];

CN9-D: LA []; LT [2M/12s]; CT [2E/2s]; RT []; RA [2B/9s]; H [];

*CN9-YLW: LA []; LT []; CT [2E/2s]; RT []; RA [2B/10s]; H [];



Hunchback (50t):

HBK-4G: LA [1E/4s]; LT []; CT []; RT [3B/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [1E/1s]; (no extra restrictions)

HBK-4H: LA [1E/4s]; LT []; CT []; RT [2E/8s, 1B/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [1E/1s]; (no extra restrictions)

HBK-4J: LA [1E/4s]; LT []; CT []; RT [2E/4s, 1E/2s, 2M/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [1E/1s]; (limited to 1 PPC in the right torso)

HBK-4P: LA [1E/4s]; LT []; CT []; RT [3E/6s, 3E/5s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [1E/1s]; (limited to 3 PPCs or 5 large lasers in the right torso)

HBK-4SP: LA [2E/4s]; LT [1M/12s]; CT []; RT [1M/12s]; RA [2E/4s]; H [1E/1s]; (limited to 1 PPC per arm)

*HBK-4GI: LA [1E/4s]; LT [1M/12s]; CT []; RT [2B/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [1E/1s]; (no extra restrictions)



Trebuchet (50t): No extra restrictions for current variants.

TBT-3C: LA [1E/4s, 1M/8s]; LT []; CT [1E/2s]; RT [1M/12s]; RA [2E/8s]; H [];

TBT-5J: LA [2E/8s]; LT []; CT []; RT [1M/12s]; RA [3E/9s]; H [];

TBT-5N: LA [1E/4s, 1M/8s]; LT []; CT []; RT [1M/12s]; RA [3E/9s]; H [];

TBT-7K: LA []; LT [2B/12s]; CT []; RT [2E/8s]; RA [2M/8s]; H [];

TBT-7M: LA [1E/4s, 1M/8s]; LT [1M/12s]; CT []; RT [1M/12s]; RA [2E/8s]; H [];



Griffin (55t): No extra restrictions for current variants. As it lacks hardpoint locations, extremely lopsided configurations by weight are permitted.

GRF-1N: LA []; LT []; CT []; RT [3M/12s]; RA [3E/8s]; H [];

GRF-1S: LA []; LT [2M/12s]; CT []; RT []; RA [4E/8s]; H [];

GRF-3M: LA []; LT [1E/4s]; CT []; RT [4M/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [];



Kintaro (55t): Limited to 1 PPC per arm.

KTO-18: LA [1E/4s, 2M/8s]; LT []; CT [1M/2s]; RT [2M/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H []; (no extra restrictions)

KTO-19: LA [1E/4s, 2M/8s]; LT []; CT [1M/2s]; RT [1M/12s]; RA [2E/5s]; H [];

KTO-20: LA [1M/8s]; LT []; CT [2E/2s]; RT [2M/12s]; RA [2E/5s]; H [];

*KTO-GB: LA [1E/4s, 2M/8s]; LT []; CT [2M/2s]; RT [1M/12s]; RA [2E/5s]; H [];



Shadow Hawk (55t): Restricted from combining more than 1 PPC with its unrestricted ballistic options.

SHD-2D: U/1s; LA [1E/2s, 1E/2s]; LT [1B/12s]; CT [1M/2s]; RT [1M/12s]; RA [1E/2s]; H [1M/1s]; (limited to 1 PPC in total, placed on any one energy hardpoint using the universal slot)

SHD-2D2: U/1s; LA [1E/2s]; LT [1B/12s]; CT [1M/2s]; RT [2M/12s]; RA [1E/2s]; H [1M/1s]; (limited to 1 PPC in total using the universal slot)

SHD-2H: LA []; LT [3B/12s]; CT []; RT [2M/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [1M/1s]; (no extra restrictions)

SHD-2K: LA []; LT [3E/8s]; CT []; RT [3M/12s]; RA []; H []; (can't equip a third PPC in the left torso)

SHD-5M: LA []; LT [2B/12s]; CT []; RT [1M/12s]; RA [2E/5s]; H [1M/1s]; (right arm can only carry 1 PPC)



Wolverine (55t): No extra restrictions for current variants.

WVR-6K: LA []; LT [1M/12s]; CT []; RT []; RA [4E/8s]; H [1E/1s];

WVR-6R: LA []; LT [3M/12s]; CT []; RT []; RA [2B/8s]; H [1E/1s];

WVR-7K: LA []; LT [2M/12s]; CT []; RT [1M/12s]; RA [2E/8s]; H [1E/1s];



HEAVY:



Dragon (60t): No extra restrictions for current variants.

DRG-1C: LA [2E/8s]; LT [2E/8s]; CT [1M/2s]; RT []; RA [1B/9s]; H []

DRG-1N: LA [1E/4s]; LT [1E/4s]; CT [2M/2s]; RT []; RA [2B/9s]; H []

DRG-5N: LA [2E/8s]; LT []; CT [1M/2s]; RT []; RA [3B/9s]; H []

*DRG-FANG: LA [2E/8s]; LT [1E/4s]; CT [1M/2s]; RT []; RA [2B/9s]; H []

*DRG-FLAME: LA [2E/8s]; LT [1B/12s]; CT [1M/2s]; RT []; RA [2E/8s]; H []



Quickdraw (60t): No extra restrictions for current variants.

QKD-4G: LA [1E/4s]; LT [1M/12s]; CT [1M/2s]; RT [2E/8s]; RA [1E/4s]; H []

QKD-4H: LA [1E/4s]; LT [2M/12s]; CT [1M/2s]; RT [2E/8s]; RA [1E/4s]; H []

QKD-5K: LA [1E/4s]; LT [2E/8s]; CT [1M/2s]; RT [2E/8s]; RA [1E/4s]; H []



Catapult (65t): No extra restrictions for current variants.

CPLT-A1: LA [3M/10s]; LT []; CT []; RT []; RA [3M/10s]; H []

CPLT-C1: LA [1M/10s]; LT [1E/4s]; CT [2E/2s]; RT [1E/4s]; RA [1M/10s]; H []

CPLT-C4: LA [2M/10s]; LT []; CT [2E/2s]; RT []; RA [2M/10s]; H []

CPLT-K2: LA [1E/4s]; LT [1E/4s, 1B/12s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s, 1B/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H []

*CPLT-J: LA [1E/4s]; LT [1E/4s]; CT [2E/2s]; RT [1E/4s]; RA [1E/4s]; H []



Jagermech (65t):

JM6-A: LA [1B/10s, 2M/10s]; LT [1E/4s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s]; RA [1B/10s, 2M/10s]; H [] (no extra restrictions)

JM6-DD: LA [3B/10s]; LT [1E/4s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s]; RA [3B/10s]; H []; (no extra restrictions)

JM6-S: LA [2B/10s]; LT [2E/5s]; CT []; RT [2E/5s]; RA [2B/10s]; H []; (limited to 1 PPC per side torso)

*JM6-FB: LA [1E/4s, 1B/10s]; LT [2E/5s]; CT []; RT [2E/5s]; RA [1E/4s, 1B/10s]; H []; (limited to 1 PPC per side torso)



Thunderbolt (65t):

TDR-5S: LA [2B/8s]; LT [3E/12s]; CT []; RT [2M/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H []; (no extra restrictions)

TDR-5SS: LA []; LT [3E/3s, 1M/12s]; CT []; RT [2E/5s]; RA [2E/8s]; H []; (limited to a total of 4 PPCs, or 5 large lasers)

TDR-9S: LA [2B/8s]; LT [3E/3s, 1M/12s]; CT []; RT [2E/5s]; RA [1E/4s]; H []; (limited to a total of 3 PPCs, or 4 large lasers)

TDR-9SE: LA []; LT [3E/5s, 2M/12s]; CT []; RT []; RA [2E/8s]; H []; (limited to a total of 3 PPCs, or 4 large lasers)



Cataphract (70t):

CTF-1X: LA [1E/4s]; LT [1E/4s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s, 1B/12s]; RA [1E/4s, 1E/2s]; H [] (right arm can only carry 1 PPC)

CTF-2X: LA [2M/8s]; LT [1E/4s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s, 1B/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [] (no extra restrictions)

CTF-3D: LA [1E/4s]; LT [1E/2s]; CT []; RT [1E/2s, 1B/12s]; RA [1E/4s, 1B/9s]; H [] (can only carry PPCs in the arms)

CTF-4X: LA [2B/9s]; LT []; CT [2E/2s]; RT []; RA [2B/9s]; H [1M/1s] (no extra restrictions)

*CTF-IM: LA [1B/8s]; LT [1E/4s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s, 1B/12s]; RA [1E/4s, 1B/9s]; H [] (no extra restrictions)



Orion (75t): Limited to 1 PPC per arm.

ON1-K: LA [1E/4s, 1E/2s]; LT [2M/12s]; CT []; RT [1B/12s]; RA [1E/4s, 1E/2s]; H [];

ON1-M: LA [1E/4s, 1M/9s]; LT [1M/12s]; CT [1M/2s]; RT [1B/12s]; RA [1E/4s, 1E/2s]; H [];

ON1-V: LA [1E/4s, 1M/9s]; LT [1M/12s]; CT []; RT [2B/12s]; RA [1E/4s, 1M/9s]; H []; (no extra restrictions)

ON1-VA: LA [1E/4s, 2M/9s]; LT []; CT []; RT [1B/12s]; RA [1E/4s, 2M/9s]; H []; (no extra restrictions)

*ON1-P: LA [1E/4s]; LT [1E/4s, 2M/12s]; CT []; RT [2B/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H []; (no extra restrictions)



ASSAULT:



Awesome (80t): No extra restrictions for current variants.

AWS-8Q: LA []; LT [2E/8s]; CT []; RT [2E/8s]; RA [2E/8s]; H [1E/1s];

AWS-8R: LA []; LT [2M/12s]; CT []; RT [2M/12s]; RA [2E/8s]; H [1E/1s];

AWS-8T: LA [2E/8s]; LT [1M/12s]; CT []; RT [1M/12s]; RA [2E/8s]; H [1E/1s];

AWS-8V: LA []; LT [2E/8s]; CT []; RT [3M/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [1E/1s];

AWS-9M: LA [1M/8s]; LT [1E/4s]; CT [2E/2s, 2M/2s]; RT [1E/4s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [1E/1s];

*AWS-PB: LA [2M/8s]; LT [1E/4s]; CT []; RT [1M/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [1E/1s];



Victor (80t):

VTR-9B: LA [1E/4, 1E/2s]; LT [2M/12s]; CT []; RT []; RA [3B/10s]; H []; (left arm can only carry 1 PPC)

VTR-9K: LA [3E/8s]; LT [2M/12s]; CT []; RT []; RA [1B/9s]; H []; (no extra restrictions)

VTR-9S: LA [1E/4, 1E/2s]; LT [3M/12s]; CT []; RT []; RA [2B/10s]; H []; (left arm can only carry 1 PPC)

*VTR-DS: LA [1E/4s]; LT [2M/12s]; CT []; RT [1E/4, 1E/2s]; RA [2B/9s]; H []; (right torso can only carry 1 PPC)



Battlemaster (85t):

BLR-1D: LA [3B/8s]; LT [2E/4s]; CT []; RT [2E/4s]; RA [1E/4s]; H []; (limited to a total of 3 PPCs)

BLR-1G: LA [2B/8s]; LT [1E/4s, 2E/2s, 1M/12s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s, 2E/3s]; RA [1E/4s]; H []; (limited to a total of 4 PPCs, or 5 large lasers)

BLR-1S: LA [1M/8s]; LT [1E/4s, 1E/2s, 2M/12s]; CT []; RT [2E/4s]; RA [1M/9s]; H []; (limited to a total of 2 PPCs)

BLR-3M: LA [1B/8s]; LT [1E/4s, 2E/2s, 1M/12s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s, 2E/3s]; RA [2E/5s]; H []; (limited to a total of 4 PPCs, or 6 large lasers)

BLR-3S: LA []; LT [1E/4s, 2E/3s, 1M/12s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s, 2E/3s]; RA [1M/9s]; H []; (limited to a total of 4 PPCs, or 4 large lasers)



Stalker (85t): Variants are further differentiated, with an overall emphasis away from PPC-boating.

STK-3F: LA [2E/3s, 1M/10s]; LT [1E/2s, 1M/12s]; CT []; RT [1E/2s, 1M/12s]; RA [2E/3s, 1M/10s]; H []; (limited to a total of 2 PPCs, or 4 large lasers)

STK-3H: LA [2E/5s, 1M/10s]; LT [1M/12s]; CT []; RT [1M/12s]; RA [2E/5s, 1M/10s]; H []; (limited to a total of 2 PPCs)

STK-4N: LA [2E/6s]; LT [1E/2s, 1M/12s]; CT []; RT [1E/2s, 1M/12s]; RA [2E/3s, 1M/10s]; H []; (limited to a total of 3 PPCS, or 5 large lasers)

STK-5M: LA [2E/3s, 1M/10s]; LT [2M/12s]; CT [1E/2s]; RT [1M/12s]; RA [2E/3s, 1M/10s]; H []; (limited to a total of 2 PPCs, or 3 large lasers)

STK-5S: LA [2E/3s, 1M/10s]; LT [1E/2s, 1M/12s]; CT []; RT [1E/2s, 1M/12s]; RA [2E/3s, 1M/10s]; H []; (limited to a total of 2 PPCs, or 4 large lasers)

*STK-M: LA [2E/5s]; LT [1B/12s]; CT [1E/2s]; RT [1M/12s]; RA [2E/5s]; H []; (limited to a total of 2 PPCs)



Highlander (90t): All variants are limited to 1 less PPC in the torso.

HGN-732: LA [2M/8s]; LT [1M/12s]; CT []; RT [2E/8s, 1E/2s]; RA [1B/9s]; H [];

HGN-733: LA [2M/8s]; LT [2M/12s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s, 1E/2s]; RA [1B/9s]; H [];

HGN-733C: LA [1M/8s]; LT [2M/12s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s, 1E/2s]; RA [2B/10s]; H [];

HGN-733P: LA [1M/8s]; LT [2M/12s]; CT []; RT [1E/4s, 1E/2s]; RA [2E/8s]; H [];

HGN-HM: LA [3E/8s]; LT [2M/12s]; CT []; RT []; RA [2B/9s]; H []; (no extra restrictions)



Banshee (95t):

BNC-3E: LA []; LT [4B/12s]; CT []; RT [3E/8s]; RA []; H [1E/1s]; (can't equip a third PPC in the right torso)

BNC-3M: LA []; LT [3E/8s]; CT []; RT [4E/8s]; RA []; H [1E/1s]; (limited to a total of 4 PPCs)

BNC-3S: LA [1E/4s]; LT [1B/12s]; CT [1E/2s]; RT [5E/8s, 1M/12s]; RA []; H [1E/1s]; (limited to a total of 3 PPCs, or 6 large lasers)

*BNC-LM: LA [1E/4s]; LT [1E/4s, 1B/12s]; CT []; RT [1M/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [1E/1s]; (no extra restrictions)



Atlas (100t): (no extra restrictions)

AS7-D: LA [1E/4s]; LT [2M/12s]; CT [2E/2s]; RT [2B/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [];

AS7-D-DC: LA [1E/4s]; LT [3M/12s]; CT []; RT [2B/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [];

AS7-K: LA [1E/4s]; LT [1M/12s]; CT [2E/2s]; RT [1B/12s]; RA [1E/4s]; H [];

AS7-RS: LA [2E/8s]; LT [2M/12s]; CT []; RT [1B/12s]; RA [2E/8s]; H [];

*AS7-BH: LA [3E/8s]; LT [1M/12s]; CT []; RT [1B/12s]; RA [3E/8s]; H [];



I believe that such a measured approach to hardpoint restrictions can easily be implemented design-wise to the existing game and achieve a suitable compromise to move forward with other changes that negate the need for ghost heat.

(Sorry for not formatting this post for better readability, but It's just another post in another thread that will quickly be forgotten).

[Relic1701]

moneyBURNER, on 29 April 2014 - 12:00 AM, said:

LOADS AND LOADS OF STUFF! OMGWTF!

Nice post, appreciate the time & effort, but next time, maybe a spreadsheet (googledocs anyone?)

Edited by Relic1701, 01 May 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[Josef Nader]

So, it's worth pointing out that you guys are getting your wish, in a way. Clantech won't have dynamic endo/ferro, and certain things will be locked to the chassis. This mean that clan chassis have slot restricted hard points.

[RedDragon]

3rdworld, on 28 April 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

Dragon Slayer (PPC Gauss)
Protector (PPC Gauss)
Maybe Firebrand (2 PPC + 2 AC/5 depending on your flavor)
CTF-1X (PPC Gauss)
La Maliche (PPC Gauss)
BNC-3S (can still use 2PPC + Gauss)
Ilya (gauss + 2 AC/5s)

after a little checking PPC + Gauss or some similar combination.....Notice all the hero mechs? Sounds like a great idea to me.

Oh and pretty much all Clan mechs.

I confess I have no idea about Hero mechs, never bothered buying one. But the point stands, the best you could get would be PPC+Gauss (Banshee 3S can only carry AC10, that would be a medium slot) or 2 PPC, and I don't think that would be a problem. because those are not builds that have no equivalent or couldn't be countered by other configurations.
And Clan mechs? Well, as much as PGI wants to nerf them, they shouldn't pose a threat anyhow

[Wolfways]

Screw the meta. I want to play Battletech not MetaMech

[3rdworld]

Wolfways, on 01 May 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Screw the meta. I want to play Battletech not MetaMech

Well I want to play mechwarrior.

And meta is a result of weapon balance, not lack of hardpoint restrictions.