227 replies to this topic

[Bilbo]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

That's because they've explicitly stated they don't plan to give the Clans outright superiority. And they are doing it by adding the things we've asked them to add to IS weapons to help with the issues they have.

I mean good lord, burst AC's and a slug for LBX? We've only had a billion threads asking for this for IS.



SRM6's are very different and I'd say in every way worse than SRM4's currently.

But lets say you use 4's, it's 24 damage, that requires you to get within as you said, 100m to get all center torso.

Or you can do 30 damage repeatedly, pinpoint and start attacking at 1000m.

I can usually get there. It will be nice when all my weapons actually work when I do.

[pbiggz]

Alot of these changes coming for clan weapons aren't bad. It doesn't excuse the lack of change to IS tech (broken ACs, useless LBX, non-existant heat scale, etc) but I don't hate things on principal. The fact that they are considering these sorts of mechanics at all is a GOOD thing, and it gives me some hope for this game, hope which I was lacking in for the past month or so.

PS: the launch module is still the lynch pin for this game's success. Without 2-12 man group sizes this game will be hurting, if they fix that problem, their chances of success go up alot, but that requires paul to not be lazy.

Edited by pbiggz, 23 April 2014 - 12:25 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Rasc4l, on 23 April 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

Completely disagree. If they register fine, the current damage 2/missile is exactly fine. Considering that current PPC+(U)AC metamechs make their ~30 pinpoint damages at ranges up to 1km, it is only fair and balanced that brawlers are extremely lethal at close range.

HA as if! Someone else did the math and it comes out to 9.44 damage at 1 km

Even at ranges of 700m, 2 PPCs and 2 AC5s is only pinpoint if the target is standing still. At that range they will impact at different times on different locations if you are moving, even at Atlas speeds.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 23 April 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[Goose]

Davers, on 23 April 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

My favorite part is when Paul say "When SRM hit detection if fixed, they will have to reduce SRM damage"

I like SRMs, too, but they shouldn't ever have been an "AC Substitute" …

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Bilbo, on 23 April 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

I can usually get there. It will be nice when all my weapons actually work when I do.

I'm just saying, it doesn't seem worth it from a Risk/Reward standpoint.

If I have to get myself within 270m...and honestly it's more like within 175m to do damage...it better BOOM.

Otherwise I'm better off doing 30 pinpoint damage, from 700-1000m away.

It would be one thing if the long range weapons (ala LRM's) stopped working when a brawler got close.

But we know that's not the case. And even with PPC's damage loss at 90m, it's just not enough.

Gas Guzzler, on 23 April 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

HA as if! Someone else did the math and it comes out to 9.44 damage at 1 km

Even at ranges of 700m, 2 PPCs and 2 AC5s is only pinpoint if the target is standing still. At that range they will impact at different times on different locations if you are moving, even at Atlas speeds.

That's fine, because with the best non-consumable module in the game (Adv. Zoom), i'll put 10 damage into your torso all day long from 1000m.

Then when you get to 700m, you've already taken 30-40 damage. And suddenly it's now closer to 30 damage per shot

[Bilbo]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

I'm just saying, it doesn't seem worth it from a Risk/Reward standpoint.

If I have to get myself within 270m...and honestly it's more like within 175m to do damage...it better BOOM.

Otherwise I'm better off doing 30 pinpoint damage, from 700-1000m away.

It would be one thing if the long range weapons (ala LRM's) stopped working when a brawler got close.

But we know that's not the case. And even with PPC's damage loss at 90m, it's just not enough.



That's fine, because with the best non-consumable module in the game (Adv. Zoom), i'll put 10 damage into your torso all day long from 1000m.

Then when you get to 700m, you've already taken 30-40 damage. And suddenly it's now closer to 30 damage per shot

I do have other weapons on it. It's not a useless mech outside 270. It's just most effective there. Brawling is really the only thing I do in this game in any of my mechs. I've learned how to get where I need to be to do it.

[DirePhoenix]

Moenrg, on 23 April 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

I'm surprised people haven't caught this tidbit. Listen closely at slightly after the 43 minute (about 43:20) mark. Paul specifically worries about the ghost heat effect on certain mechs (the Warhawk) and he says "the efficiency of clan double heatsinks is probably pretty significant" to which Paul says "Yes". The implication here is that clan double heatsinks are better than IS Doubles, i.e. better than 1.4. That will certainly help mechs like the Warhawk and the Nova.

Clan Double Heat Sinks only take up 2 crit spaces, not 3 like the Inner Sphere Double Heat Sinks. You can fit more of them in a 'mech, so they're already more efficient without playing with the dissipation numbers.

[Gas Guzzler]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

That's fine, because with the best non-consumable module in the game (Adv. Zoom), i'll put 10 damage into your torso all day long from 1000m.

Then when you get to 700m, you've already taken 30-40 damage. And suddenly it's now closer to 30 damage per shot

If your aim is that good then I don't know why you worry about anything. I can't reliably hit a moving target 4 times at 1000m with PPCs and AC5s (you would not be able to alpha strike at that range due to velocity disparity). If they aren't moving then that's their fault. Also another fun fact. If you have to lead a moving target, your weapons won't converge on the moving target, they will converge at the range your reticle is at (behind the moving target) so in many configurations you still won't be hitting the same component.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 23 April 2014 - 12:37 PM.

[Wolfways]

Cimarb, on 23 April 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Clan lasers were immensely overpowered, so duration of beam is being increased to compensate (standard and pulse)

When did clan lasers get different stats to IS lasers?

Quote

LRMs firing in sequence (very quickly) as a stream, which will allow AMS to be more effective on them. No minimum range, but damage will ramp up from 0 at 0m to full damage at the "normal" minimum range.

Missiles "ramping up" damage makes no sense. Not that it matters as clan LRM's will be as useless as IS LRM's.
....
I want going to comment on more but i've been laughing at PGI's destruction of the BT IP for so long that it's just not funny anymore

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 April 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

If your aim is that good then I don't know why you worry about anything. I can't reliably hit a moving target 4 times at 1000m with PPCs and AC5s (you would not be able to alpha strike at that range due to velocity disparity). If they aren't moving then that's their fault. Also another fun fact. If you have to lead a moving target, your weapons won't converge on the moving target, they will converge at the range your reticle is at (behind the moving target) so in many configurations you still won't be hitting the same component.

1000m isn't that big of a deal when I'm running a MetaHawk. Outside of that it does get difficult, mostly due to playing on a 60 inch TV.

Assault mechs are by far the easiest though, with Atlases being numero uno for putting shots into their CT repeatedly.

Bilbo, on 23 April 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

I do have other weapons on it. It's not a useless mech outside 270. It's just most effective there. Brawling is really the only thing I do in this game in any of my mechs. I've learned how to get where I need to be to do it.

Well when 3 hardpoints are effectively useless until you can spit on your opponent, and you are the slowest mech on the battlefield, with the easiest to hit torso? I have a hard time getting riled up over that.

And definitely not enough that I'd think SRM's would need to be nerfed like you said.

[Gas Guzzler]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

1000m isn't that big of a deal when I'm running a MetaHawk. Outside of that it does get difficult, mostly due to playing on a 60 inch TV.

Assault mechs are by far the easiest though, with Atlases being numero uno for putting shots into their CT repeatedly.

Sure, but if someone is standing 1000m away holding a sign that says "Hey, shoot me over here" then that is their fault. 60" TV? Man must be nice, I bet my game would improve if I wasn't on a 15.6" laptop screen.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 April 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

Sure, but if someone is standing 1000m away holding a sign that says "Hey, shoot me over here" then that is their fault. 60" TV? Man must be nice, I bet my game would improve if I wasn't on a 15.6" laptop screen.

I played for a year on a crappy laptop.

Honestly, the TV is...fun from an immersion standpoint. But text gets really hard to read, the UI is horrendous (more so) on it, and I don't sit in a proper desk position (I have a wireless keyboard in my lap, and my mouse next to me on the couch). So lights can give me a hard time.

And most of the Assaults in this game that aren't poptarting have a "Hey shoot me over here" sign on them.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 23 April 2014 - 12:57 PM.

[Bilbo]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

1000m isn't that big of a deal when I'm running a MetaHawk. Outside of that it does get difficult, mostly due to playing on a 60 inch TV.

Assault mechs are by far the easiest though, with Atlases being numero uno for putting shots into their CT repeatedly.



Well when 3 hardpoints are effectively useless until you can spit on your opponent, and you are the slowest mech on the battlefield, with the easiest to hit torso? I have a hard time getting riled up over that.

And definitely not enough that I'd think SRM's would need to be nerfed like you said.

Well, right now three of my hardpoints are effectively useless half the time even when I'm inside 270 meters. I still manage to do well enough. When they work all the time I'll be in heaven.

[Deathlike]

All I can say is that Paul still believes people claim that 3 LL is OP.

That and I'm starting to wonder what would happen if NGNG fought a top tier group in 12-mans... because the idea of balance based on NGNG is a far cry from reality.

[Cattra Kell]

Deathlike, on 23 April 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

All I can say is that Paul still believes people claim that 3 LL is OP.

That and I'm starting to wonder what would happen if NGNG fought a top tier group in 12-mans... because the idea of balance based on NGNG is a far cry from reality.

Sure - let me hook you up with our Marik Season 1 and 2 team which I captain.
Division 3 Champs S2, 4th place overall, with 4 of our pilots making the top 10

Edited by Cattra Kell, 23 April 2014 - 01:06 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Cattra Kell, on 23 April 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Sure - let me hook you up with our Marik Season 1 and 2 team which I captain.
Division 3 Champs S2, 4th place overall

So do you think 3 Large Lasers are overpowered?

[Cattra Kell]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 April 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

So do you think 3 Large Lasers are overpowered?

I don't, source where I say I do. Until then [Citation needed]

Edited by Cattra Kell, 23 April 2014 - 01:06 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Cattra Kell, on 23 April 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Sure - let me hook you up with our Marik Season 1 and 2 team which I captain.
Division 3 Champs S2, 4th place overall, with 4 of our pilots making the top 10

Thanks, all the proof I needed that the Private Match System was NGNG driven over casual group play or CW.

Remember the good old days when Solaris7 style of play was going to be "down the road" after CW, now we know why we're getting it first.

[Deathlike]

Cattra Kell, on 23 April 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Sure - let me hook you up with our Marik Season 1 and 2 team which I captain.
Division 3 Champs S2, 4th place overall, with 4 of our pilots making the top 10

Wasn't NGNG responsible for the Huginn? I mean, by comparison, the Oxide looks "competitive".

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Cattra Kell, on 23 April 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

I don't, source where I say I do. Until then [Citation needed]

No, I'm asking you. Do you think 3 Large Lasers is overpowered?

I just don't get why you guys act like sycophants, if you are good at this game, you must know that 3 Large Lasers is not overpowered. And since you actually have access to Paul, maybe you should do us all a favor and tell him.