536 replies to this topic

[ExAstris]

Frankly, I don't get as far as the OP. I don't actually recommend this game to anyone, even longtime fans of previous MechWarrior games or Battletech in general.

Why? MWO has a lot of things going for it, yes. But for every 5 good decisions made about the game's design/balance/etc there is at least one terrible decision that undercuts all that progress.

Granted, terrible design decisions happen in a lot of games, so why is MWO special in this regard? Because those other games eventually have their devs wake up and fix the egregious problems, even if the minor ones stay. This game has spent well over a year living with problems that have easy fixes to problems which wouldn't have lasted a month in a well managed game.

So why still play at all? There is no competition. Hawken is the closest thing available, and while its vastly better managed, is making much better progress, is far better balanced, and doesn't force me to realize a new way to improve it every time I sit down to play... its still not direct competition to MWO as it sits somewhere between the simulator-esque slowness of MWO and the all-twitch of most other fps games.



So that's how bad it is. I can't get new players to stay either; not because they played the game in an infuriating state, but because its state and foreseeable future are so dim I can't speak highly enough of it to merit their even checking it out.

Edited by ExAstris, 24 April 2014 - 10:49 AM.

[PropagandaWar]

Jun Watarase, on 24 April 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

I already complained about the matchmaker. Newbies in trial mechs shouldnt be matched up against veterans. I dont believe ranked matches in most famous games (Starcraft 2, LOL, etc) allow you to take a team in and bash some newbies either. Nobody would care if it was a bunch of guys at a LAN party messing around, but all MWO matches are effectively ranked matches where c-bills and XP are at stake (in addition to time/enjoyment).

Team stacking is still frowned upon in most games btw. Heard of a half life mod called "Natural Selection"? My local servers were infested with jerks. They would try and get all the clanners and other good players on the alien team then rush the outnumbered newbies playing on the marine side. They would win in the first 30 seconds, game after game, all while bragging about how "pro" they were. All the people who wanted a real game would get frustrated and leave the server, then these "pros" would start checking other servers to find out where everyone was then try to mass join it and ruin that server.

Its pretty much whats happening in MWO except we dont even get the chance to avoid these people.

And its not like the premades HAVE to use any meta builds. They are using it to score as many cheap wins for self gratification as possible, everyone knows that by now.

And while im typing this i just ended up in 5 games where we got curbed stomped because the other team was full of vets in PPC/AC poptarts, jagermechs boating ballistics, all while stacking ECM...

the-crows dont run meta and we dont suck. In fact I pretty much only pilot mediums. We'll just wup your ass with pure crap builds because thats what we do.

[PropagandaWar]

shad0w4life, on 24 April 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

What a stupid argument, those games have respawn modes so a player dies and continues on and learns the ins and outs quickly.
Heck they even might get to kill the guy that's killed them 10 times already and feel good about it.

A dropship mode with a time limit and all out battle would go a long way to giving people options on how they want to play.

some of those games have a die once mode too. Sooo move on. Thing is learn the game. I don't cry when I pug, I don't cry when I lose. I just try different strategies. I do get pissed that so many people love to single file and die when they are clearly being focused fired instead of pushing in to nail em back. Hesitance is the Mudderfudder that kills. I had a silly mofo laugh at me yesterday for dying. See thing is we won and turning the morons to focus on me was part of that. and we weren't running meta in our pug.

[Jun Watarase]

PropagandaWar, on 24 April 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

the-crows dont run meta and we dont suck. In fact I pretty much only pilot mediums. We'll just wup your ass with pure crap builds because thats what we do.

I dont see how bragging about your unit's supposed skill is relevant to this thread...

[Votanin FleshRender]

There's a new thread in the New Player Help section almost every single day about a new person quitting because of getting roflstomped constantly. And what % of players take the time to log into the foruns? likely 10x the amount that post are quitting every day.

I've pretty much quit playing, and i just started a month ago. Although I will check out the 3/3/3/3 launch to see if its any better.

The new player experience here is disgusting. I own a small business, and if I treated my new customers the way PGI treats their new customers... Can you imagine McDonalds treating people to an experience like this? Say the first 25 times you get to McD's, you get the kind of experience MWO offers new players. An steady diet of mockery and humiliation. Etc. NO business will survive treating new customers like that.

Yeah, there isn't a big enough player base to support non-grouped player queue without very long wait times. But PGI is *compounding* that problem by widening the Elo bracket, and starting new players in the middle. This just drives people away, making the player base even smaller, in a viscous circle that can only end one way.

[AlmightyAeng]

Votanin FleshRender, on 24 April 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

An steady diet of mockery and humiliation. Etc. NO business will survive treating new customers like that.

Maybe PGI thinks they're the Ed Debevic's of the gaming world.

Quote

There's a new thread in the New Player Help section almost every single day

More than a slight hyperbole...and if you'll notice, in those threads (like the one you created) the OP comes in already convinced that the game is total crap and wants to rant.

There are actually more "I'm bad, please help" threads that are created, with a lot of those new players coming back and being excited about their improvement after listening to player feedback they asked for.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 24 April 2014 - 11:08 AM.

[Primez]

Jun Watarase, on 24 April 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Team stacking is still frowned upon in most games btw. Heard of a half life mod called "Natural Selection"? My local servers were infested with jerks. They would try and get all the clanners and other good players on the alien team then rush the outnumbered newbies playing on the marine side. They would win in the first 30 seconds, game after game, all while bragging about how "pro" they were. All the people who wanted a real game would get frustrated and leave the server, then these "pros" would start checking other servers to find out where everyone was then try to mass join it and ruin that server.

NS degenerated after 1.04 because in 2.0 they added res for kills which destroyed the any strats. It wasn't so much about kills until they put that at the forefront compared to position and holding key objectives. Team stacking is always frowned upon but really MWO just needs tighter MM. Your not going to be getting that anytime soon because the playerbase is so small. In fact that probably the largest reason we haven't seen anything done. No one is going to want to wait 20 minutes to find a match (though that sometimes happens now). Even wonder why they removed the played count and didn't bring it back?

To be honest they are so many factors that stop players from staying or even picking up the game that they need to address be it UI2.0 being fixed and having a workable mechlab to better cbill income like the 8v8 days. They can balance all they want but no one going to want to spend a great deal of time grinding or trying to learn this alpha build of a mechlab. Which then common sense leads us too if you don't have the players to support the queues then no changes will be coming until then.

[Flaming oblivion]

Pygar, on 23 April 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

Because there are times of the day when online traffic dips down enough that there aren't enough players for multiple queues.
--------------------------------------------------------

Back to the OP: I dunno, the comic was kind of funny, but kind of not- I would say that the real reason you can't get your buddies to stay is because you are trying to introduce them to a game that some of us have been playing in some form or another for two and a half decades...and instead of getting them to join a guild/house/clan that can help teach them (like a lot of us "veteran" players belong to), you are blaming PGI and making players who are good at the game sound like bullies for being good at the game. (myself, I am probably a mid tier player at best, and I tend to stay away from cheese builds...but I'd still betchya five bucks me and my buddies will make you and your buddies cry on the battlefield, because your post just doesn't make it sound very hard to accomplish.)

Which is the time of the day its most needed to stop you winding up on a full pug team against a team with a pre made and all the advantages that brings, as well as a huge elo advantage.

[Votanin FleshRender]

Are you saying I don't have something worthy of ranting about?

Dropping new players in with vets, often in groups... that's ok?

You must like fishing with a shotgun, with a barrel full of trout nearby.

[Odins Fist]

ExAstris, on 24 April 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

This game has spent well over a year living with problems that have easy fixes to problems which wouldn't have lasted a month in a well managed game.

So that's how bad it is. I can't get new players to stay either; not because they played the game in an infuriating state, but because its state and foreseeable future are so dim I can't speak highly enough of it to merit their even checking it out.

Just forget trying to keep new people around, that's not going to happen.

I have seen entire Merc Corps fold up like cheap napkins over these issues, and also because of the internal squabbling that these things have caused..

None of my old friends and Vets are buying into the BS anymore, and if this wasn't the only MechWarrior game out there right now, they wouldn't be playing at all instead of every couple weeks.. (the older MechWarrior games don't count, too dated and ugly now)..

So I hear the same things from everyone on my friends list, or old friends that no longer play MWO.

They all give the same reasons for being unhappy with the state of MWO, and it ALL has to do with the lack of speed in which MWO is being developed. Big spenders turned into ZERO spenders..

They all say they are curious as to how MWO will turn out, but they also say this "Not another Penny... EVER", and they aren't playing but every other week or less.

I play about 5% of what I used to play, and i'm growing even more uninterested in MWO as development drags on.

People complaining about the lack of speed in development have every reason to complain, the excuses for development taking this long have all run out of validity, they're just lame excuses at this point..

"It's taking way too long" is the phrase that best describes MWO development, and that is the reality of the situation.
Don't try to church it up with excuses, that approach is worn out and transparent.

Edited by Odins Fist, 24 April 2014 - 11:22 AM.

[PropagandaWar]

Jun Watarase, on 24 April 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

I dont see how bragging about your unit's supposed skill is relevant to this thread...

It is because I say it is (tha'ts how Pseudo Internet Ego's Work!). Who said I have skills. I just have more than you. I'm mediocrity at its finest.

[Fut]

MischiefSC, on 23 April 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

It's not about 'groups of veterans'. It's about a specific group of people who are drawn to groups because of the advantage it gives and not for the fun of socialization in gaming. They don't want a challenge, they want an easy win. One huge opportunity for improving the game is in things like a split queue and approaching the game from the perspective of splitting that group out from the rest of the player base and keeping them out. Let them play; let anyone and everyone who wants to play in groups play in groups of whatever size they want. Just realize that some players, a significant slice, are absolutely toxic to the rest of the games population and need isolated in every way possible. They want to play against newbies, they make alt accounts to keep cycling through lower Elo ('It's so I can get the cadet bonus to get more mechs... well, yes, I have 200 million cbills stockpiled but I'm saving those. Why yes, yes I sync drop with my friends with us all in alt accounts. It's... uh, training. So we don't mess up our regular Elo, or some such bullshit') and otherwise look for means to exploit opportunities to get around matchmaking efforts to keep them among relatively comparably skilled players.

Yep. This.

[Peter2k]

Votanin FleshRender, on 24 April 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

There's a new thread in the New Player Help section almost every single day about a new person quitting because of getting roflstomped constantly. And what % of players take the time to log into the foruns? likely 10x the amount that post are quitting every day.

I've pretty much quit playing, and i just started a month ago. Although I will check out the 3/3/3/3 launch to see if its any better.

The new player experience here is disgusting. I own a small business, and if I treated my new customers the way PGI treats their new customers... Can you imagine McDonalds treating people to an experience like this? Say the first 25 times you get to McD's, you get the kind of experience MWO offers new players. An steady diet of mockery and humiliation. Etc. NO business will survive treating new customers like that.

Yeah, there isn't a big enough player base to support non-grouped player queue without very long wait times. But PGI is *compounding* that problem by widening the Elo bracket, and starting new players in the middle. This just drives people away, making the player base even smaller, in a viscous circle that can only end one way.

The funniest thing actually is that a good amount of veteran players, founders too, are leaving as well
Treating new customers bad?
How about investing into this game and then being told a year later by the guy who runs the show that you're not the core audience this game is being made for?
That you don't matter and that you're voice is so little that it gets practically ignored and that you live on an island.
Votes don't matter, forum doesn't since metrics show most players don't bother going to the forums.

Warnings have been made about decisions, ignored, and look what we have now.

New players leaving, old vets leaving.

Last thing: as a premade we rarely discuss tactics, hell most of the time we don't even call out targets, just want some wingman that we can trust.
And for every game that is good, winning or loosing who cares, but just a good match, realy close, good tactics n stuff; we get rofl stomped as well.

Let 2/3 players on you're side run as single targets all over the map, and you're enemy knows what they're doing and u lost right from the start.

Always love on therma 1 or 2 players running to the middle alone and complaining to all of the rest why no one followed them into the abyss; no one followed clearly right from the start.

[Argent Usher]

@Jun Watarase

Kudos for your post. It is obvious why you have chosen Kurita as your house, it's just like me.

@premades

Sometimes i miss the ol' CB "Letz hunt some premades" matches as pugger because the overall "blobskill" was better, imo.
The "balance problem" with mixing +4-X man groups in a pure-pug team and the discussion has a long tradition, i think the answer should still be: Nope.
I agree with Primez, we have a small playerbase which is split in several current and future game modes (we will probably never get an european or other server) but i still think a battlevalue system (with mech/equipment cost, pilot skill/Xp, group as a lance, etc.) would be more useful and could fix the balance but we will get it soonever.


Regards A.U.

[Roland]

Jun Watarase, on 24 April 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

Oh god i cant imagine a game where every single person is abusing the meta. Talk about unfun. You want to run the most OP builds you can think of? Sure, just dont force us to play with you. See first few panels in the comic. That's what would happen if we weren't forced to play with all the tryhards.

Dude, you can't demand that other players be bad just because you are bad.

[Phashe]

I play. I enjoy. I do not complain (toooo much) about pre-mades.

I wish they improved the new player's experience more.

This forum... man, people sure do carry a lot of angst around with them...about a game. You would think no one was playing anymore based on all these complainers... yet, I seem to find a fun match every time. "Vocal Minority?" LOL... let the flames begin! :-)

[NeonKnight]

Roland, on 24 April 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

I think Jun actually applauded the imposition of 4 man limits at the time. It's good to know that, as we predicted, it would not do anything to stop his complaining about premades ruining everything for him.

You know, PGI actually did implement the PERFECT PUG drop, where folks like JUN can drop Solo and win everytime. Occasionally I drop into these matches too when I wan to feel like a true L337 PILOT!

This match mode is called: TRAINING GROUND

[TLBFestus]

In the end the problem is that they somehow think that only allowing a group of 4 or less, or 12 is somehow a smart idea.

It's STUPID, but that said maybe it's the underlying Match making or relative low numbers of players at any given time that make this a necessity. I would think allowing any group to form and enter a "groups only" queue would solve a lot of that but I can also imagine the added complexity it creates for match making.

Why they don't have a SOLO only queue by now is a simply mind-bogglingly poor decision. I would think it would have less match making issues, plus adds some hope of a decent PUG match, but I assume it would kill the groups (again I'm speculating on player numbers) somehow.

[Dakkath]

I've always wished they would put in a "stock-mode" only option. Hoping the new launch module will have that in the future. I (IMO) detest the mech lab, and wish we could only customize our mechs with paint/stickers/variants.

to each his own though.

[Revorn]

Dakkath, on 24 April 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

I've always wished they would put in a "stock-mode" only option. Hoping the new launch module will have that in the future. I (IMO) detest the mech lab, and wish we could only customize our mechs with paint/stickers/variants.

to each his own though.

Yeah, Stock only would realy be cool.