536 replies to this topic

[NeonKnight]

dimstog, on 26 April 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

(I am not quoting your next post because frankly, I would be ashamed to repost something like that)

I gather that with the advent of the new MM, you and your mature friends that have kids in high school, will drop with your elite unit in private matches only so that you can hone your elite skills against other mature people with elite skills that have kids in high school, right ?

Or are you gonna drop in pugs as well, from time to time, just to roflstomp some other, immature, anti social guys that don't have kids in high school and just want to have a fair chance at shooting robots among THEMSELVES ? How can those guys protect themselves from you and your friends ?

Because that's what the original post was about.

No, I'm gonna drop whereever I want, because I've put my time and money into this game, and frankly that is my right as a consumer.

[MischiefSC]

NeonKnight, on 26 April 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

No, I'm gonna drop whereever I want, because I've put my time and money into this game, and frankly that is my right as a consumer.

Absolutely, you can and you will.

Just realize that people are going to treat contemptible behavior with contempt. If you don't want treated with contempt, don't do something contemptible. If you don't care what people think of you then.... why post here on the topic?

The issue is attempting to demand respect for a behavior that other people don't find respectable.

[NeonKnight]

MischiefSC, on 26 April 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

Absolutely, you can and you will.

Just realize that people are going to treat contemptible behavior with contempt. If you don't want treated with contempt, don't do something contemptible. If you don't care what people think of you then.... why post here on the topic?

The issue is attempting to demand respect for a behavior that other people don't find respectable.

No, the issue is:

PLAY THE WAY I WANT YOU TO PLAY

That is unfortunately what the original OP's attitude has been from back in the closed beta days.

But to make them happy PGI has forced those of us who used to be able to drop in 8 man groups now forced to drop in 4 man groups. We never got the promised 2+ group sizes, and now to further exacerbate the issue they will now tell us we are welcome to drop in private matches where we can drop any size....oh, but I don;t get to earn XP, and I don't Earn C-Bills, but I can spend C-Bills all day long on consumables if I wish.

[Solahma]

why haven't you guys started a "Play 4 fun" league that caters to players who aren't willing to adapt to current gameplay mechanics, teamwork, or social interaction.... oh wait, that last part defeats the purpose of a league doesn't it....


back to the drawing board!

[Demuder]

NeonKnight, on 26 April 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

No, I'm gonna drop whereever I want, because I've put my time and money into this game, and frankly that is my right as a consumer.

Exactly, and every pug has exactly the same rights as you do. That is, play a solo drop in a fair environment. Or is a "fair environment" something that they do no have a consumer's right to demand and can only whine about ?

NeonKnight, on 26 April 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

No, the issue is:

PLAY THE WAY I WANT YOU TO PLAY

That is unfortunately what the original OP's attitude has been from back in the closed beta days.

But to make them happy PGI has forced those of us who used to be able to drop in 8 man groups now forced to drop in 4 man groups. We never got the promised 2+ group sizes, and now to further exacerbate the issue they will now tell us we are welcome to drop in private matches where we can drop any size....oh, but I don;t get to earn XP, and I don't Earn C-Bills, but I can spend C-Bills all day long on consumables if I wish.

Granted. PGI took your candy from you. Sarcastic as it sounds, I agree with you. You have been duped by PGI.

However, pugs are fighting an uphill battle when faced with guys like you, and although I am fine with them inevitably losing, characterizations like "whiners", "losers", "anti socials" - just because they don't have headphones glued to their ears, "immature" - because they get frustrated after losing 12-0 for the fifth time in a row, etc are not warranted, not in game or on the forums in any way.

You wanna gun for someone ? Gun for PGI that has decided that they should make your favorite kind of play impractical to play. Don't go after the players that want to drop solo. Solo droppers have as much right as you do for a fair match.

[Landron1979]

Wait,

So I gather from a quite a few people in this thread that Experience in-game = massive advantage, therefore I as someone who has been playing for a while and learned what works and what doesn't, I should now be excluded from playing with ANYONE unless they are also similarly skilled.

Why not just set an ELO cap and if you go over it you can no longer play, because you know, otherwise that would be unfair for the players who can't learn to play properly or improve themselves in any way.

And just for the record I have actually dropped into matches with the OP and have seen him say, Oh I recognize that player, HE's IN A PREMADE, everybody leave because it's no use playing against them. Then he proceeds to Disconnect from the game, leaving his now under equipped team to their fate.

[Jun Watarase]

Fuggles, on 25 April 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

how on earth is there a 11 page discussion about the MM when its being changed in 4 days?

im not saying the new launch module will magically fix everything, but seriously, how about we wait until we see how the new MM system turns out?

You mean like when MWO went full release, after we told PGI that going release with a non-working matchmaking was a terrible idea and fanbois just told us to "wait and see"? Does anyone remember how that turned out?

[Jun Watarase]

Solahma, on 26 April 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

why haven't you guys started a "Play 4 fun" league that caters to players who aren't willing to adapt to current gameplay mechanics, teamwork, or social interaction.... oh wait, that last part defeats the purpose of a league doesn't it....


back to the drawing board!

The majority should cater to the whim of the minority. Thats a very interesting logic.

Landron1979, on 26 April 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

Wait,

So I gather from a quite a few people in this thread that Experience in-game = massive advantage, therefore I as someone who has been playing for a while and learned what works and what doesn't, I should now be excluded from playing with ANYONE unless they are also similarly skilled.

Why not just set an ELO cap and if you go over it you can no longer play, because you know, otherwise that would be unfair for the players who can't learn to play properly or improve themselves in any way.

And just for the record I have actually dropped into matches with the OP and have seen him say, Oh I recognize that player, HE's IN A PREMADE, everybody leave because it's no use playing against them. Then he proceeds to Disconnect from the game, leaving his now under equipped team to their fate.

Nobody has ever claimed that veterans should not be allowed to play. Maybe you should go re-read the OP again. If 100+ people can get the point of the OP, but you can't, i think the problem might lie somewhere between your chair and your computer...

[Slepnir]

Quote

Or are you gonna drop in pugs as well, from time to time, just to roflstomp some other, immature, anti social guys that don't have kids in high school and just want to have a fair chance at shooting robots among THEMSELVES ? How can those guys protect themselves from you and your friends ?

Because that's what the original post was about.

The only things private matches are going to be good for without Cbill/XP rewards is for groups to train, set up scenario matches for events or have trials of position within a clan....so pretty much not very useful for a PVP game. The original post was actually about a TROLL (that's what you are when you run the same topic into the ground for a year or two and have them get deleted by mods) incessantly whining about a preconceived notion that's of his own making, Jun's lack of ability or lack of luck in the pug lottery(yes I get it to when I am in premade teams and when I solo drop) does not constitute an emergency on my part of the part of any other players. especially when he thinks he is the only one allowed to play with his friends because me playing with my friends is to difficult for him. since for some obvious [sarcasm mode] reason I only drop in a team to beat up on new players and it has nothing to do with playing a social game where I can socialize and enjoy my time with friends while playing a game we all like to play [sarcasm mode] Also Jun as for your little comic strip-there is a reason why most TT players only allow cannon mech designs so people like you cant abuse the system. mechs with clan LPLs and a targeting computer are extremely rare.

[Landron1979]

Jun Watarase, on 26 April 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

Nobody has ever claimed that veterans should not be allowed to play. Maybe you should go re-read the OP again. If 100+ people can get the point of the OP, but you can't, i think the problem might lie somewhere between your chair and your computer...

Umm, right, whatever you say.

But think on this, no matter which game you play or how good you are (or in OP's case think you are) there will always be people who have been playing longer, and have more skills / equipment than you.

Most people move on and grind their way past it and learn to play the game the way they want to and improve.

Then there are people like the OP that start to blame game mechanics and the match maker and the like for their own lack of skills, and if people disagree with his point of view well that's just fine he must be one of the experienced elite that are killing the game and are free to be ignored.

[Jun Watarase]

Landron1979, on 26 April 2014 - 02:31 AM, said:

Umm, right, whatever you say.

But think on this, no matter which game you play or how good you are (or in OP's case think you are) there will always be people who have been playing longer, and have more skills / equipment than you.

Most people move on and grind their way past it and learn to play the game the way they want to and improve.

Then there are people like the OP that start to blame game mechanics and the match maker and the like for their own lack of skills, and if people disagree with his point of view well that's just fine he must be one of the experienced elite that are killing the game and are free to be ignored.

Please stop posting off topic responses that have zero relevance to the thread. Make your own thread if you want to discuss a different topic.

[Demuder]

Landron1979, on 26 April 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

Wait,

So I gather from a quite a few people in this thread that Experience in-game = massive advantage, therefore I as someone who has been playing for a while and learned what works and what doesn't, I should now be excluded from playing with ANYONE unless they are also similarly skilled.

Why not just set an ELO cap and if you go over it you can no longer play, because you know, otherwise that would be unfair for the players who can't learn to play properly or improve themselves in any way.

And just for the record I have actually dropped into matches with the OP and have seen him say, Oh I recognize that player, HE's IN A PREMADE, everybody leave because it's no use playing against them. Then he proceeds to Disconnect from the game, leaving his now under equipped team to their fate.

But... the whole ELO system was supposed to prevent exactly that. It was supposed to prevent unskilled (not necessarily new) players from playing vs skilled (not necessarily old) players and ultimately provide a fair match for everyone involved. In fact almost all modern day PvP games employ a system to prevent just that. The fact that it doesn't work in MWO, doesn't make it the unskilled or the skilled players' fault.

So, what's your point ?

In MWO, there's the added advantage that some players create for themselves, in that they drop in a premade group which combined with 3rd VoIP software provides their team with an advantage (I won't go into sync dropping and such). All the while, the system itself doesn't make sure that BOTH teams get such an advantage. In fact the system itself provides no means for the team members, either solo drops or premades to communicate with each other, except for a troll-level, almost unusable in game chat. The end result is, that in a game that is designed for players to either drop solo or in groups, the game itself takes no care in providing a fair environment for all.

As an elite, skilled player, I would be bored, if not outraged, having to maw through dozens of newbies. Instead, in MWO, those elite, skilled players tend not only to abuse the system in every way imaginable but also proceed in calling said newbies whiners, puggers, antisocial and gracefully end their victories with a ggclose statement.

For some reason, is all this the solo player's fault ? Is this a game that, in your humble opinion, provides a nice environment for someone that starts playing it ? Is that your point ?

[Diablobo]

I think that as long as the MM ELO continues to fail to take mech loadouts and efficiencies into account, the OP and many like him will continue to suffer. An ELO based solely on W/L is idiotic in a game where your mech loadout makes up such a big part of the game.

Edited by Diablobo, 26 April 2014 - 04:26 AM.

[Richard Warts]

Alexandrix, on 23 April 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

Im not sure how this has anything at all to do with the topic of the thread(group vs solo).......
Its a seperate issue entirely.....

It's not a seperate issue at all, you don't like being stomped - who does? However instead of finding fault with the MM or considering the fact that the until Clans and CW are released the player base will be small (leaving MM to make due with who's online), you choose to blame other players. This is a tactical game and players who want that experience go on Teamspeak or Raidcall because MWO doesn't have an in-game voice chat. Even if you can't use the mic for whatever reason (not waking up a wife or gf comes to mind) just listening to the other players you're grouped with calling out targets or suggesting maneuvers helps both you and your team.

[Jun Watarase]

Tabu 73, on 26 April 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

It's not a seperate issue at all, you don't like being stomped - who does? However instead of finding fault with the MM or considering the fact that the until Clans and CW are released the player base will be small (leaving MM to make due with who's online), you choose to blame other players. This is a tactical game and players who want that experience go on Teamspeak or Raidcall because MWO doesn't have an in-game voice chat. Even if you can't use the mic for whatever reason (not waking up a wife or gf comes to mind) just listening to the other players you're grouped with calling out targets or suggesting maneuvers helps both you and your team.

I dont know why people like you keep trying to redirect the thread into a "teamwork" thing.

It's been mentioned countless times there are far more factors at work here than simply voice comms.

I mean even the picture in the OP spelled it out for you, but you dont seem to get it...at this point im wondering whether people are just not reading anything in the thread and jumping in with off topic comments or they are deliberately trying to sidetrack the thread...

Anyway, you + 11 random newbies in trial mechs vs me + 11 vets in meta builds with full efficiencies and modules. Lets go. Remember, you dont get to complain about how unfair the match up is. If you are skilled, you can just solo 12 mechs by yourself, doesnt matter how many newbies your team has or how many vets on the enemy team are running meta builds.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 26 April 2014 - 10:49 AM.

[Richard Warts]

Jun Watarase, on 26 April 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Anyway, you + 11 random newbies in trial mechs vs me + 11 vets in meta builds with full efficiencies and modules.

Yeah, except that never happens.

Jun Watarase, on 26 April 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

I mean even the picture in the OP spelled it out for you, but you dont seem to get it.

You're right maybe I don't. When I read the OP and many of the responses that followed I read it as a bunch of people complaining about premades using meta builds and how they're ruining the game. Oh and in case you failed to realize, all premades that I've ever dropped with or against have used one form of comms or another e.g. TS, RC, or Skype which is you know... how they coordinate their fire... sound familiar..? Otherwise why form a premade at all if you can't communicate with each other?
I realize now that this thread, and others like it are just ways for people like you to troll the internet and create general unrest amongst the players of this community. You seem to thrive on this kind of divisiveness and so - I wash my hands of this conversation.

Live long, and prosper

Edited by Tabu 73, 26 April 2014 - 01:22 PM.

[NeonKnight]

Jun Watarase, on 26 April 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

I mean even the picture in the OP spelled it out for you, but you dont seem to get it...at this point im wondering whether people are just not reading anything in the thread and jumping in with off topic comments or they are deliberately trying to sidetrack the thread...

hang on a second here....let me pull up and quote the OP

Jun Watarase, on 23 April 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

First a little story in picture format. (click for full size)

**SNIPPED FOR BREVITY**

Wait a minute....I've seen that name before...OH IT'S YOU!

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3316648

WOW! To hammer home your points, you now go on to say: "Hey Guys, me and a bunch of others here all agree with the OP, so you guys are wrong!" when YOU are the OP

Mayba, I can make my arguments seem more valid by posting something I said, and then keep refering back to it and saying: Hey me and this other guy (he's pretty cool too) have this opinion so you are wrong!"

[Davers]

Votanin FleshRender, on 25 April 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

A new player question about R&R... didn't that lead to problems with players hanging back, not wanting to fight for fear of damage costs?

Or tons and tons of sniper builds? I can't imagine there was much brawling at all.

R&R was really bad and encouraged all kinds of bad behavior and was rightly discarded. The fact that PGI gave up so quickly on it (instead of suffering years of attempted fixes) despite the fact it was clearly a major planned Cbill sink is the sole reason I have any faith in PGI.

[Bagheera]

Roadbeer, on 23 April 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

Most syncdropping takes place just because we want to play with our friends, all of them that are online (up to 12) not just 3 of them while we wait for 11 more.

How does that not get utterly boring like immediately? Matches are already a cake walk just with a single lance on comms. Booooooooooooring.

[Landron1979]

Just to bring up 2 relevant points:

1] Sync Dropping.

Sync dropping is now almost impossible. It was quite easy in the past, but now that they have bought in the ELO system and the limited changes they have made to the match maker previously, it's just too hard to organize.

Me and my group have tried to do this a few times now just to see if it's as you say. But on the few times when there were enough of us to organize into 2 teams, The match maker has put us on opposite teams and hilarity ensues as we ingnore everyone else and try to get each other.

2] Over Powering can only happen with Meta build mechs.

On several occasions, we have dropped into matches as a 4 man team in all trial mechs. If used as they're intended to be, they are quite effective, but as always you need to have luck on your side as well.

Still we get about the same Win / Loss in these simple trial mechs as in our regular mechs.

And lastly to touch on the R&R system that was removed because people were abusing the mechanic of free repairs to 75% this could have been easily fixed by making them have to fully repair a mech before putting it back into another match, much like they do in World Of Tanks or War Thunder. They also had many people complaining about running out of c-bills when the R&R system was on, which could've been fixed by simply slightly increasing the rewards or salvage component from matches.

Edited by Landron1979, 27 April 2014 - 12:43 AM.