50 replies to this topic

[Ertur]

I've mastered both, and still slightly prefer Jenners. I don't have anything especially negative to say about the Firestarters, they're excellent little mechs and I enjoy running them. I just don't think that it's a case where one is completely better than the other.

[Ertur]

JonahGrimm, on 10 May 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Both are mastered, and I'll stick with the jenners. Mind you, I'm one of those warped people that runs the Jenner-k instead of the F, and find I like it far more (even owning two chassis, both kitted to different roles).

I use the F if I need to bake something. The K is for Killin'. So I'm with you.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Me personally?

For Dogfights:
6 ML FS9-K > 6 ML JR7-F

For Hunter-killer:
4 ML 2 SMR4 JR7-D(S) > 6 ML FS9-K > 6 ML JR7-F

[levitas]

JohanssenJr, on 11 May 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

Me personally?

For Dogfights:
6 ML FS9-K > 6 ML JR7-F

For Hunter-killer:
4 ML 2 SMR4 JR7-D(S) > 6 ML FS9-K > 6 ML JR7-F

You're using the wrong 6 ML JR-F.

This one is better.

You cannot run 15 DHS and 6 mlas in a FS-9 without making some serious sacrifices.

[DEMAX51]

I pilot both of them very regularly. Short answer: they're both really good, and both still have a place in the game (especially in the Competitive scene).

[Motörhead]

Ember is the best finisher ingame with this build, and IMO best non-ECM light :

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8e487a40c2fc720

the 4 MGS are 4 DPS vs the 2 MLAS more that are 2.50, plus they crit like crazy.
can afford 4JJs because needs less cooling(and 4JJs vs 1 is BIG deal especially on a light), it can always shot near overheat thanks to MGs, and will overheat less anyway.
also 2 modules slots, vs 1, 3vs2 when master.

If you strip a bit of armor, you get 5 JJs !!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...22d0447f73dbd9e

mount AMS (or BAP stacked with Target info gathering to be even more lethal) with basically no sacrifice

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=137&l=b44ec3a9cf7ba836ed0abe20ea2a964ab05dd603

etc etc etc

but mostly, Jenner is CT ONLY !!! many lights like spiders as extreme example can tank really well with spread damage, instead Jenner's CT seems to be the only thing that gets hit.

Edited by fx8320, 12 May 2014 - 02:33 PM.

[Koniving]

Impavid, on 26 April 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

Thoughts? Did I miss anything?

If it is replacing the Jenner, it's only because THE JENNER STILL HAS NOT RECEIVED ITS HITBOX OVERHAUL from the project that mysteriously stopped in December when the guy decided to go on a vacation...and apparently either still has been or just never got back to the project.
The feedback thread has even been closed.
Hitbox overhaul...the plan of inaction.

Current hitbox.


Requested. (Light blue is ST, light green is CT).


As a comparison, here's the current Raven.

That's why Ravens are so hard to kill by the torsos. It's also why you get front ST damage from the back.

Edited by Koniving, 12 May 2014 - 02:42 PM.

[DEMAX51]

Koniving, on 12 May 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

If it is replacing the Jenner, it's only because THE JENNER STILL HAS NOT RECEIVED ITS HITBOX OVERHAUL from the project that mysteriously stopped in December when the guy decided to go on a vacation...and apparently either still has been or just never got back to the project.
The feedback thread has even been closed.
Hitbox overhaul...the plan of inaction.

Current hitbox.


Requested. (Light blue is ST, light green is CT).


As a comparison, here's the current Raven.

That's why Ravens are so hard to kill by the torsos. It's also why you get front ST damage from the back.

Wow - it's been so long since they've done any of those updates I had completely forgotten about 'em, and I was looking forward to the Jenner tweak quite a bit. I hope they pick that project back up sometime soon.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Go into a privat match. Make a Duell between a Jenner D with 2 Streak and an Ember.....and then fight with an Ember and an Jenner against an Assault in a Duell.

I started to love lights when the Ember came out. WOW 4 MG with 4 ML.....in the Statistik. The Firestarter A is the real PUG Killer with 8 ML.....but the Duells were won ...guess what..by the Jenner D.

Streak are so powerful that we restricted them in honour Duells on lights to 1 max.

[Zordicron]

I am also dissapoint. About the hitbox stuff that is. Top of my wishlist though was doing awesomes, again, so that the arms took more dmg for the ST, so they could move ST in a little bit more for CT.

Anyway, one thing I did want to add on the subject of jenner/FS9, I found it easier to be creative with the FS( mechs to make it so each had it's own bit of uniqueness in loadout compared to jenners. Sure some jenners have those extra missile or laser slots, but the FS9 has so many hardpoints it is pretty easy to mix up what you carry. I have a PPC on the arm of one of them, 2MG, SPL, Flamer in the torso slots of the one, combination of ML arms and SL torso on one, 4MG on ember, etc. Little bit of engine tweaks allows for tonnage variation between the variants to allow a wide variety of weapons to be loaded. I found on jenners, basically you put 4x ML on them, and then biggest or near XL engine, and fill the rest with JJ, DHS, maybe if you want slow it down a smidge and put some missiles on one of them.

Not that it is bad for the jenners. 4 ML and JJ and max engine is so effective in the right hands it is almost irrelevent if you have two chassis with the same loadout.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

solar levitas, on 12 May 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

You're using the wrong 6 ML JR-F.

This one is better.

I disagree, that one heatsink doesn't make that much of a difference. But that 8 points of armor on your head makes a helluva lot of difference. My head can soak an AC20 and still leave me running. Not to mention I get far more use out of a second JJ than a 15th DHS

If you bring up the weaponlab you can see the intricacies. They aren't that different.

Also, my meager stats say otherwise:

Wins: 90
Losses: 45
Kills: 177
Deaths: 62
K/D: 2.85

I got a friend that runs that exact build and he has over a 5.0 K/D with it.

[levitas]

15 internal hp in the head lets adiuvo's build take an ac20 to the head with some change too. As for the rest, different strokes for different folks I guess. The build I posted was optimized to take 30 point alphas from every angle as well as possible while maximizing burst damage, speed, and cooling. I personally never feel like that last heat sink is wasted, especially in a mech that rarely takes big hits to side torsos and arms, and it comes into play any time heat is above 70%

Edited by solar levitas, 12 May 2014 - 10:02 PM.

[The Trumpet of Gabriel]

JonahGrimm, on 10 May 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

However, I'm going on record as saying neither one is empirically 'better' - the Jenner-K suits me and my playstyle, netting me lots of kills and letting me abuse module slots. I can't do what I do (and enjoy doing) in the firestarter, so it's not for me... and that pretty much seems to sum up the argument either way.

I agree with you that it really comes down to your personal play style and preferences. I personally like the firestarters better, but I'm primarily a heavy and assault pilot so the way the firestarter handles feels more natural for me than the Jenner.

[danneskold]

TL:DR all the posts. I run both, and both have their strong points and weakness, and what it comes down to is preference. They are very competitive.

The FS gripe - they legs get blown off you - I die that way more than not. Jenner has the CT issue, but it has great profile, in that when you can see someone, your weapons can generally hit them. The FS has the weapons lower, so sometimes, you cant hit them though you can see them.

I find only put a back up or non crit weapons in the FS torso due to the pitch. I have had good luck with my FS-9H with 4 ml in the arms, 1 in the CT and 2x mg. The MG rip when slots are open, but the 4ml are the main line weapons. I use the CT ml situationally, which also helps with heat.

My two favs are the JR7F and the FS9H. I like the JR7D too, but its not quite the F in my eyes.

The ember is good to farm cbills with, much better than oxide, imo.

Other FS variants I didnt like as much, as with so many energy hard points, i was being forced to use more SL or slow down the mech, which with my playstyle, just doesnt work. I want to jump in to the air at full speed and let frap fly!

If I had to pick one...very hard to say. I started in Jenner, and like my H, I will alternate between them as I see fit, always good to have more than one pony.

[YueFei]

solar levitas, on 12 May 2014 - 10:00 PM, said:

15 internal hp in the head lets adiuvo's build take an ac20 to the head with some change too. As for the rest, different strokes for different folks I guess. The build I posted was optimized to take 30 point alphas from every angle as well as possible while maximizing burst damage, speed, and cooling. I personally never feel like that last heat sink is wasted, especially in a mech that rarely takes big hits to side torsos and arms, and it comes into play any time heat is above 70%

1 external DHS essentially equates to 1.61 cooling per 10 seconds, with double-basics.

Over a 5 minute duration of combat, that's 48.3 heat. Enough to fire 2 alphas of 6 MLs.

Essentially the extra ton and 3 crit slots of 1 DHS buys you the "ammo" to fire twice for an extra 60 damage in a single match where the most intense fighting occurs over a 5 minute timespan.

[Escef]

FS9s punch above their weight, and tank quite well for their size due to arm hitboxes The speed difference between it and the Jenner is minimal, 2.5 kph is not going to make a difference often enough to worry about. Though I expect the 280 XL is the most popular engine for FS9s, bringing the realistic speed difference to around 10.1 kph, which might be just enough to matter in a light-on-light duel.

The ability to squeeze one more heat sink into the engine and the lack of lower arm actuators does give the Jenner a smidge more crits to work with, but I haven't compared builds enough to decide if it is a meaningful difference. (BTW, the Firestarters don't have hands.)

I think FS9s are better for mixing it up with big boys, and Jenners have slightly better anti-light capabilities. Plus, for team play, the ability of the Jenner D and K to mount NARC is a big plus, as it is easier to use than TAG (NARC being a fire-and-forget kind of thing is better for fast movers, since TAG needing to be held on target is not too good for something that constantly is moving at 130+ kph and evading.)

Having piloted both FS9s and JR7s, I have to say that the Firestarter has a slight edge over the JR7. However, I think the edge is small enough to be overshadowed by pilot preference.

[xMintaka]

Having played both extensively, as well as having all variants (barring the FS9-H) mastered, I'll weigh in.

In light on light combat, the JR7-D stomps all but the FS9-S and even then the Firestarter will be in trouble. This is mostly due to the close range nature of dogfights and AMS taking time to arm.

The differences are more subtle when it comes to the JR7-F and FS9-K (or -A). You may think that the extra movement in the arms and better hitboxes make a difference. They do. But not as much as an extra heatsink or two. In that situation shutting down is a death sentence.

Case in point, I've beaten a 6Mlas JR7-F in my already damaged 5Mlas JR7-F (one more heatsink) purely because my opponent shut down and I got a free Alpha on his CT.


Against larger targets, it's more even. For me it's a tie between the Jenner and the Ember. Ember excels at brawling, whereas the Jenner is far better in a strike and fade role.


Buy both, master both. They're fantastic.

[Tremendous Upside]

These two are pretty much a wash in terms of capabilities. The Ember is a wildcard - and the scariest mech in the light class - but in general if u can do it with a Jenner you can do it in a Firestarter just as well (and vice versa). I personally prefer the FIrestarters - but that's personal preference more than anything else. I hate the low viewpoints from the chicken-walker lights - and the fact that if you can see a target from one, they've got a line on your CT... Also the Jenner CT is a big liability in general. There's no way to shield it at all from any angle against jumpers short of full cover. Even from directly behind you it's easy to take CT damage from over your shoulder... FIrestarters take leg damage easier - but I'm a lot more comfortable with arms and STs I can shield my core with. FIrestarters do that very well. They're just bigger, jumping Commandos.

[IraqiWalker]

Escef, on 22 May 2014 - 03:27 AM, said:

FS9s punch above their weight, and tank quite well for their size due to arm hitboxes The speed difference between it and the Jenner is minimal, 2.5 kph is not going to make a difference often enough to worry about. Though I expect the 280 XL is the most popular engine for FS9s, bringing the realistic speed difference to around 10.1 kph, which might be just enough to matter in a light-on-light duel.

The ability to squeeze one more heat sink into the engine and the lack of lower arm actuators does give the Jenner a smidge more crits to work with, but I haven't compared builds enough to decide if it is a meaningful difference. (BTW, the Firestarters don't have hands.)

I think FS9s are better for mixing it up with big boys, and Jenners have slightly better anti-light capabilities. Plus, for team play, the ability of the Jenner D and K to mount NARC is a big plus, as it is easier to use than TAG (NARC being a fire-and-forget kind of thing is better for fast movers, since TAG needing to be held on target is not too good for something that constantly is moving at 130+ kph and evading.)

Having piloted both FS9s and JR7s, I have to say that the Firestarter has a slight edge over the JR7. However, I think the edge is small enough to be overshadowed by pilot preference.

All of that.

Seriously, these mechs are great, and pilot preference is going to be the biggest decider.

Yes, the Jenner can ridge hump better than the FS9, but if you are ridge humping in a light, something has already gone wrong.

I'm biased towards the FS9s, mostly because I like the design aesthetically. However, both mechs are great. Find what you like, and work with it. The only way to do so, is to buy both mechs, and my advice is to master them.

[DEMAX51]

IraqiWalker, on 22 May 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

Yes, the Jenner can ridge hump better than the FS9, but if you are ridge humping in a light, something has already gone wrong.

Ridge-humping strafing runs actually work exceptionally well. You ever watch Koreanese play when he was still around? One of the best Light pilots I've ever seen, and he put that tactic to work with amazing results.