Firestarter Replacing Jenner?
#21
Posted 11 May 2014 - 09:58 PM
#22
Posted 11 May 2014 - 10:01 PM
JonahGrimm, on 10 May 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:
I use the F if I need to bake something. The K is for Killin'. So I'm with you.
#24
Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:55 PM
JohanssenJr, on 11 May 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:
You're using the wrong 6 ML JR-F.
This one is better.
You cannot run 15 DHS and 6 mlas in a FS-9 without making some serious sacrifices.
#25
Posted 12 May 2014 - 02:01 PM
#26
Posted 12 May 2014 - 02:11 PM
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8e487a40c2fc720
the 4 MGS are 4 DPS vs the 2 MLAS more that are 2.50, plus they crit like crazy.
can afford 4JJs because needs less cooling(and 4JJs vs 1 is BIG deal especially on a light), it can always shot near overheat thanks to MGs, and will overheat less anyway.
also 2 modules slots, vs 1, 3vs2 when master.
If you strip a bit of armor, you get 5 JJs !!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...22d0447f73dbd9e
mount AMS (or BAP stacked with Target info gathering to be even more lethal) with basically no sacrifice
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=137&l=b44ec3a9cf7ba836ed0abe20ea2a964ab05dd603
etc etc etc
but mostly, Jenner is CT ONLY !!! many lights like spiders as extreme example can tank really well with spread damage, instead Jenner's CT seems to be the only thing that gets hit.
Edited by fx8320, 12 May 2014 - 02:33 PM.
#27
Posted 12 May 2014 - 02:21 PM
Impavid, on 26 April 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:
If it is replacing the Jenner, it's only because THE JENNER STILL HAS NOT RECEIVED ITS HITBOX OVERHAUL from the project that mysteriously stopped in December when the guy decided to go on a vacation...and apparently either still has been or just never got back to the project.
The feedback thread has even been closed.
Hitbox overhaul...the plan of inaction.
Current hitbox.
Requested. (Light blue is ST, light green is CT).
As a comparison, here's the current Raven.
That's why Ravens are so hard to kill by the torsos. It's also why you get front ST damage from the back.
Edited by Koniving, 12 May 2014 - 02:42 PM.
#28
Posted 12 May 2014 - 07:57 PM
Koniving, on 12 May 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:
If it is replacing the Jenner, it's only because THE JENNER STILL HAS NOT RECEIVED ITS HITBOX OVERHAUL from the project that mysteriously stopped in December when the guy decided to go on a vacation...and apparently either still has been or just never got back to the project.
The feedback thread has even been closed.
Hitbox overhaul...the plan of inaction.
Current hitbox.
Requested. (Light blue is ST, light green is CT).
As a comparison, here's the current Raven.
That's why Ravens are so hard to kill by the torsos. It's also why you get front ST damage from the back.
Wow - it's been so long since they've done any of those updates I had completely forgotten about 'em, and I was looking forward to the Jenner tweak quite a bit. I hope they pick that project back up sometime soon.
#29
Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:20 PM
I started to love lights when the Ember came out. WOW 4 MG with 4 ML.....in the Statistik. The Firestarter A is the real PUG Killer with 8 ML.....but the Duells were won ...guess what..by the Jenner D.
Streak are so powerful that we restricted them in honour Duells on lights to 1 max.
#30
Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:47 PM
Anyway, one thing I did want to add on the subject of jenner/FS9, I found it easier to be creative with the FS( mechs to make it so each had it's own bit of uniqueness in loadout compared to jenners. Sure some jenners have those extra missile or laser slots, but the FS9 has so many hardpoints it is pretty easy to mix up what you carry. I have a PPC on the arm of one of them, 2MG, SPL, Flamer in the torso slots of the one, combination of ML arms and SL torso on one, 4MG on ember, etc. Little bit of engine tweaks allows for tonnage variation between the variants to allow a wide variety of weapons to be loaded. I found on jenners, basically you put 4x ML on them, and then biggest or near XL engine, and fill the rest with JJ, DHS, maybe if you want slow it down a smidge and put some missiles on one of them.
Not that it is bad for the jenners. 4 ML and JJ and max engine is so effective in the right hands it is almost irrelevent if you have two chassis with the same loadout.
#31
Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:15 PM
solar levitas, on 12 May 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:
I disagree, that one heatsink doesn't make that much of a difference. But that 8 points of armor on your head makes a helluva lot of difference. My head can soak an AC20 and still leave me running. Not to mention I get far more use out of a second JJ than a 15th DHS
If you bring up the weaponlab you can see the intricacies. They aren't that different.
Also, my meager stats say otherwise:
Wins: 90
Losses: 45
Kills: 177
Deaths: 62
K/D: 2.85
I got a friend that runs that exact build and he has over a 5.0 K/D with it.
#32
Posted 12 May 2014 - 10:00 PM
Edited by solar levitas, 12 May 2014 - 10:02 PM.
#33
Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:52 AM
JonahGrimm, on 10 May 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:
I agree with you that it really comes down to your personal play style and preferences. I personally like the firestarters better, but I'm primarily a heavy and assault pilot so the way the firestarter handles feels more natural for me than the Jenner.
#34
Posted 13 May 2014 - 11:10 AM
The FS gripe - they legs get blown off you - I die that way more than not. Jenner has the CT issue, but it has great profile, in that when you can see someone, your weapons can generally hit them. The FS has the weapons lower, so sometimes, you cant hit them though you can see them.
I find only put a back up or non crit weapons in the FS torso due to the pitch. I have had good luck with my FS-9H with 4 ml in the arms, 1 in the CT and 2x mg. The MG rip when slots are open, but the 4ml are the main line weapons. I use the CT ml situationally, which also helps with heat.
My two favs are the JR7F and the FS9H. I like the JR7D too, but its not quite the F in my eyes.
The ember is good to farm cbills with, much better than oxide, imo.
Other FS variants I didnt like as much, as with so many energy hard points, i was being forced to use more SL or slow down the mech, which with my playstyle, just doesnt work. I want to jump in to the air at full speed and let frap fly!
If I had to pick one...very hard to say. I started in Jenner, and like my H, I will alternate between them as I see fit, always good to have more than one pony.
#35
Posted 21 May 2014 - 10:33 PM
solar levitas, on 12 May 2014 - 10:00 PM, said:
1 external DHS essentially equates to 1.61 cooling per 10 seconds, with double-basics.
Over a 5 minute duration of combat, that's 48.3 heat. Enough to fire 2 alphas of 6 MLs.
Essentially the extra ton and 3 crit slots of 1 DHS buys you the "ammo" to fire twice for an extra 60 damage in a single match where the most intense fighting occurs over a 5 minute timespan.
#36
Posted 22 May 2014 - 03:27 AM
The ability to squeeze one more heat sink into the engine and the lack of lower arm actuators does give the Jenner a smidge more crits to work with, but I haven't compared builds enough to decide if it is a meaningful difference. (BTW, the Firestarters don't have hands.)
I think FS9s are better for mixing it up with big boys, and Jenners have slightly better anti-light capabilities. Plus, for team play, the ability of the Jenner D and K to mount NARC is a big plus, as it is easier to use than TAG (NARC being a fire-and-forget kind of thing is better for fast movers, since TAG needing to be held on target is not too good for something that constantly is moving at 130+ kph and evading.)
Having piloted both FS9s and JR7s, I have to say that the Firestarter has a slight edge over the JR7. However, I think the edge is small enough to be overshadowed by pilot preference.
#37
Posted 22 May 2014 - 03:39 AM
In light on light combat, the JR7-D stomps all but the FS9-S and even then the Firestarter will be in trouble. This is mostly due to the close range nature of dogfights and AMS taking time to arm.
The differences are more subtle when it comes to the JR7-F and FS9-K (or -A). You may think that the extra movement in the arms and better hitboxes make a difference. They do. But not as much as an extra heatsink or two. In that situation shutting down is a death sentence.
Case in point, I've beaten a 6Mlas JR7-F in my already damaged 5Mlas JR7-F (one more heatsink) purely because my opponent shut down and I got a free Alpha on his CT.
Against larger targets, it's more even. For me it's a tie between the Jenner and the Ember. Ember excels at brawling, whereas the Jenner is far better in a strike and fade role.
Buy both, master both. They're fantastic.
#38
Posted 22 May 2014 - 08:11 AM
#39
Posted 22 May 2014 - 08:46 AM
Escef, on 22 May 2014 - 03:27 AM, said:
The ability to squeeze one more heat sink into the engine and the lack of lower arm actuators does give the Jenner a smidge more crits to work with, but I haven't compared builds enough to decide if it is a meaningful difference. (BTW, the Firestarters don't have hands.)
I think FS9s are better for mixing it up with big boys, and Jenners have slightly better anti-light capabilities. Plus, for team play, the ability of the Jenner D and K to mount NARC is a big plus, as it is easier to use than TAG (NARC being a fire-and-forget kind of thing is better for fast movers, since TAG needing to be held on target is not too good for something that constantly is moving at 130+ kph and evading.)
Having piloted both FS9s and JR7s, I have to say that the Firestarter has a slight edge over the JR7. However, I think the edge is small enough to be overshadowed by pilot preference.
All of that.
Seriously, these mechs are great, and pilot preference is going to be the biggest decider.
Yes, the Jenner can ridge hump better than the FS9, but if you are ridge humping in a light, something has already gone wrong.
I'm biased towards the FS9s, mostly because I like the design aesthetically. However, both mechs are great. Find what you like, and work with it. The only way to do so, is to buy both mechs, and my advice is to master them.
#40
Posted 22 May 2014 - 09:23 AM
IraqiWalker, on 22 May 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:
Ridge-humping strafing runs actually work exceptionally well. You ever watch Koreanese play when he was still around? One of the best Light pilots I've ever seen, and he put that tactic to work with amazing results.
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