517 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 28 April 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

The conversation isn't worth it. Joe is a different beast in his view points. It's not worth it.

Unlike Mystere, he doesn't try to pretend it's not what it is, he just has a way different view of the game.

Well to give Joe is due. He understands that not every Arty ever dropped did a full 400 points.
Having the "potential" to do 400 and actually doing a full 400 is two very distinct things.

The "fear mongers" just like to spew "big numbers" and never really associate them properly.

Here is a test. Load your Mech with just 1 Arty module, usual weapons load out. Launch into game, don;t fire a weapon but use the Arty first chance. Stay out of harms way the rest of the way and see what damage you did. Now go again, No Arty and full on battle mode. Check stats again.

You might be surprised...

[Joseph Mallan]

Mcgral18, on 28 April 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Not in pugs, but why don't you jump into 12 mans Friday evenings. Or any community ran even which doesn't restrict strikes.

Have fun in the rain.

I have yet to see any of the complained about weapons ever being remotely OP, even when In 8 or 12 man drops. If one or 2 don't kill me out of the blocks, I cannot see 8-12 of them Being OP. Cumulative damage is cumulative damage. It may look better dropping on my head, but if it is taking 3+ Strikes to kill me, I do not see my opinion changing any time soon.

[ManDaisy]

Arty is fine as it is. No complaints for proper and good use.

[Almond Brown]

Mystere, on 28 April 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

Well, given all the "Nerf Artillery" threads, it can be considered a terror weapon. I also dare say it's mostly psychological. Artillery does that to you, in real life or otherwise.

Well, given all the "Nerf Missile" threads, perhaps that "terror weapon" shouldn't be nerfed, but rather be simply removed from the game.

They do share similar "terror" characteristics right?

Edited by Almond Brown, 28 April 2014 - 09:12 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

I have yet to see any of the complained about weapons ever being remotely OP, even when In 8 or 12 man drops. If one or 2 don't kill me out of the blocks, I cannot see 8-12 of them Being OP. Cumulative damage is cumulative damage. It may look better dropping on my head, but if it is taking 3+ Strikes to kill me, I do not see my opinion changing any time soon.

I've taken over 5 stikes in a Banshee. One of them caused an ammo explosion...that did make me laugh a little. They are good at removing lots of armor, with minimal effort. Easily spammed with a short 10 second cooldown, so you can have strikes dropping consistently. 4 seconds warning can be enough if you see it, but it would be nice if Betty would tell you.

The strikes don't often kill you instantly, but it's a real threat in certain mechs. My jenner has been headshot 5 times...and I rarely use that thing. Those open air cockpits are very risky.

[Kyle Wright]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

Here's the thing though -

You're arguing a point nobody is arguing and looking foolish. Also the disingenuous 'then don't cluster up' sort of argument is on par with the 'stay under cover' during pre-heat-nerf ERPPC days and LURMAGEDDON and the like. Your argument is 'pfft, just don't get hit and be LEET LIKE MEEE!'

That's not an argument.

Absolutely Arty needed a buff. So did LRMs. So do pulse, still. Arty just needs the frequency dialed back so it's not spammed, maybe a small nerf to spread and splash. I don't have issues with getting killed by arty; I kill people with it all the time. Generally when piloting a light. A Jenner with NARC, tag, 4 MLs, 1x airstrike and 1x arty is an easy way to wrack up damage and kills when dropping in a group with some LRM support. In competitive matches the arty/airstrikes are a constant barrage and pretty telling on the way the match will go.

Far more so than who is carrying any other module.

THAT IS THE POINT. THE POINT IS HOW BALANCED ARTY/AIRSTRIKE IS COMPARED TO OTHER MODULES NOW.

Which, if you'd read the prior posts, you'd understand. Your post serves no purpose and argues a point nobody is arguing all while assuming some personal badassitude that is not only irrelevant but not suitable for the company.

Oh, by the way? I've been playing since right after open beta. I've got over 5,000 drops. You know what that means in regards to the value of my opinion?

NOTHING.

Arguments stand on their own merit or they don't stand at all. Anecdotal experience is nice for trying to impress the chicks but pointless for arguing things like balance.

So, again. Yeah, you want to participate in a conversation, you need to read the conversation.

Or you're likely to end up sounding like a jackass.

Looking like a jackass? Says the person doing all the attacking. Fine Mr. Expert, ill go back and read all 7 pages up to this one. If I am making in your words " a jackass out of myself" I will gladly apologize to you both on this forum in public and if I ever see you in game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mcgral18, on 28 April 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

I've taken over 5 stikes in a Banshee. One of them caused an ammo explosion...that did make me laugh a little. They are good at removing lots of armor, with minimal effort. Easily spammed with a short 10 second cooldown, so you can have strikes dropping consistently. 4 seconds warning can be enough if you see it, but it would be nice if Betty would tell you.

The strikes don't often kill you instantly, but it's a real threat in certain mechs. My jenner has been headshot 5 times...and I rarely use that thing. Those open air cockpits are very risky.

So you see it like me I think. You know the risk, accept it for what it is, and get on with getting your killing on.

Almond Brown, on 28 April 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Well, given all the "Nerf Missile" threads, perhaps that "terror weapon" shouldn't be nerfed, but rather be simply removed from the game.

They do share similar "terror" characteristics right?

With this logic we'd be left with zero weapons Almond!

[MischiefSC]

Kyle Wright, on 28 April 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

Looking like a jackass? Says the person doing all the attacking. Fine Mr. Expert, ill go back and read all 7 pages up to this one. If I am making in your words " a jackass out of myself" I will gladly apologize to you both on this forum in public and if I ever see you in game.

Then re-read your first post. I'm not complaining about being the target of airstrikes - I never was. Most people never were. Nobody was arguing that people who cluster up should get whumped. The issue was spam and their value vs other modules.

[Almond Brown]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Much like peoples experience with poptarts and the old PPC meta, your experience will vary. That doesn't mean it's not OPed compared to other modules - just that not everyone in every Elo bracket is happy to blow 80k cbills a match.

I am curios. How do you compare the only 2 damage based Modules against the others that do no damage at all?

Let's say all the QQ and Whiners win this battle and PGI decide to limit it to only one (Arty or Air) per Mech, which do you vote to keep? If you say Air, then Arty is not OP, and visa versa.

Edited by Almond Brown, 28 April 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[Screech]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

THAT IS THE POINT. THE POINT IS HOW BALANCED ARTY/AIRSTRIKE IS COMPARED TO OTHER MODULES NOW.

Compare Arty to Advanced Zoom Module to folks using PPCs or Ballistics. Compare Arty to Target Decay Module for LRM users, Compare Arty to 360 Target retention module for SSRM users. Seems like Arty/Airstrikes are a second tier module used when space allows, hardly a mandatory module by any means.

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 28 April 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Meh, half damage double shells. 20 Shells at 20 damage, increase cooldown to 20 seconds.

You have a weapon that has the exact same 400 damage PLUS splash damage but you can no longer instantly cockpit a mech, or remove a leg in a single strike.

Then that would mean zero chance of killing you outright. So, no.

Mcgral18, on 28 April 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Those who want more than that want an I WIN button.

Actually, I just want artillery to be ARTILLERY!

Edited by Mystere, 28 April 2014 - 09:23 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Mcgral18, on 28 April 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

They are good at removing lots of armor, with minimal effort. Easily spammed with a stuff

That could be said for a great many weapons in MWO and from roughly similar ranges.

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

So you see it like me I think. You know the risk, accept it for what it is, and get on with getting your killing on.

With this logic we'd be left with zero weapons Almond!

Wouldn't be my fault though Joe. LOL!

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 28 April 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Then that would mean zero chance of killing you outright. So, no.




Actually, I just want artillery to be ARTILLERY!

No, you want a weapon that can instagib whoever you want.

You don't want a balanced game...you want everything to die in a single shot? Perhaps COD is a better choice for you. Or WoT.

[Endgame Prophecy]

When do we get Pavelows?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Screech, on 28 April 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Compare Arty to Advanced Zoom Module to folks using PPCs or Ballistics. Compare Arty to Target Decay Module for LRM users, Compare Arty to 360 Target retention module for SSRM users. Seems like Arty/Airstrikes are a second tier module used when space allows, hardly a mandatory module by any means.

And what do you think people do? They put in Adv Zoom or Adv Decay depending on what they are running, then they fill the other two spots with Strikes.

[Mystere]

Almond Brown, on 28 April 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Well, given all the "Nerf Missile" threads, perhaps that "terror weapon" shouldn't be nerfed, but rather be simply removed from the game.

They do share similar "terror" characteristics right?

Hold a second there mister! I'm not for removing anything that currently exists in this game. So I don't know where this is coming from.

As for LRMS, all I can say is: LET IT RAIN! The most recent nerf was absolutely unnecessary as far as I was concerned.

[Gyrok]

They should AT MINIMUM remove the cockpit hitbox from the RNG on the arty/airstrikes. It is one thing if they catch a piece of me and I die because I was already ripped up. Ok fair enough, but a PRISTINE mech should NEVER get cockpit shot by arty/air. Those 2 modules are too OP to be able to drop a mech with a cockpit shot.

Mystere, on 28 April 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

Hold a second there mister! I'm not for removing anything that currently exists in this game. So I don't know where this is coming from.

As for LRMS, all I can say is: LET IT RAIN! The most recent nerf was absolutely unnecessary as far as I was concerned.

The recent buff was completely unnecessary as far as I was concerned. It came out of the blue, and LRMs were fine. I could hit 1k damage with LRMs pre-buff, so why on earth would they be considered under performing? Though this also begs the question, how on earth were AC2s overperforming?

Nicholas Carlyle, on 28 April 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

And what do you think people do? They put in Adv Zoom or Adv Decay depending on what they are running, then they fill the other two spots with Strikes.

I usually run improved gyros + zoom/decay/seismic + 1 arty/air

Edited by Gyrok, 28 April 2014 - 09:37 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Almond Brown, on 28 April 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

I am curios. How do you compare the only 2 damage based Modules against the others that do no damage at all?

Let's say all the QQ and Whiners win this battle and PGI decide to limit it to only one (Arty or Air) per Mech, which do you vote to keep? If you say Air, then Arty is not OP, and visa versa.

Nobody here is going all QQ. You're making false comparisons and hyperbole. All anyone here is talking about is increasing cooldown, possibly changes to splash range or time to target, or possibly increasing projectiles while decreasing damage.

Mostly I'm good with just increasing cooldown. 30 seconds would be good. 20 hits of 20 with smaller splash? That'd be awesome too and stop headshots, though I admit those are funny as hell.

Screech, on 28 April 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Compare Arty to Advanced Zoom Module to folks using PPCs or Ballistics. Compare Arty to Target Decay Module for LRM users, Compare Arty to 360 Target retention module for SSRM users. Seems like Arty/Airstrikes are a second tier module used when space allows, hardly a mandatory module by any means.

Sure. I use 4x PPC in a BM without zoom. You keep to 500m you don't need it that much. Same with target decay for LRMs. If I'm dropping in a competitive match or 12v12 or with friends going tryhard, absolutely. The first two slots are 1x arty, 1x airstrike. Then the 3rd module (4th if it's my D-DC) are based on my loadout. Because none of those other modules are going to equate to as much total damage. They can be beneficial, sure. Arty/Airstrike can be absolutely deciding in a match. Especially if you keep up the rain with your teammates. 24 arty/airstrikes dropped on the other team, individually and in groups, that turns the rest of the match into cleanup.

[Bulletsponge0]

I find it hilarious when someone will waste an Arty strike on me (and just me...not when I'm in a group) in my Kintaro..or even funnier...when I off by myself scouting in my Raven and someone tries to drop arty on me

hilarious waste of time and c-bills

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Gyrok, on 28 April 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

I usually run improved gyros + zoom/decay/seismic + 1 arty/air

Nobodies perfect.

But generally speaking people do Zoom/Decay and Strikes at the higher ELO levels from my experiences.