89 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Flaming oblivion, on 27 April 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

Would be true but as far as I understand it due to pin point damage 2 ac 20s would kill u llong before 8 ML's, I could be wrong though.

Yeah but there in lies the crux. 8 Medium laser do require more patience and the ability to keep the crosshairs on the enemy for the full beam duration which for all it is worth means you need to have "moar skillz" to use lasers than ACs.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Stop using Single heatsinks.

[Joseph Mallan]

To be fair WOLF... double sinks on't carry Mediums the way they should. 10 Doubles should carry 4 Mediums for the full 15 minutes without seeing a spike in heat at all.

[Barantor]

It's just you.

[Butane9000]

The medium laser is probably the most reliable and balance weapon in the game.

[Josef Nader]

Unless you focus heavily on it (Battlemasters and HBK-4Ps) the medium laser is not a primary weapon. Its your backup. Small, lightweight, easy to work onto any build, the medium laser is there to give you a solid weapon to finish the other guy off with once your main weapons are out of play. Used judiciously, you can also use then to give your alpha more punch, but they should be the first thing you drop out of your firing rotation when you heat up.

Medium lasers are one of the best weapons in the game for their role, and considering very nearly every successful build in MWO packs at least one, I'd say its just you.

Edited by Josef Nader, 28 April 2014 - 05:51 AM.

[Lightfoot]

The Medium Laser, MLAS, is the most powerful weapon per ton in MWO. 10x MLAS = 50 damage for only 10 tons, add eight DHS and it's almost heat neutral or easily managed depending on the map. The MLAS likes to hide it's OP'ness behind AC20's and Gauss Rifles and LRMs taking a secondary weapon role well, but it is the best weapon in MWO once in range. One final word, "Clan" ER-MLAS.

[Khobai]

For the most part ERLL have replaced ML as the goto laser.

Quote

The Medium Laser, MLAS, is the most powerful weapon per ton in MWO.

I wouldnt say its the most powerful weapon per ton. Its certainly the most efficient weapon per ton though. Power and efficiency arnt the same thing however.

Right now, the game is locked in a sniper meta, so the power of a weapon is determined primarily by its range. The most powerful laser is the ERLL because of its massive range

ERLL are also slightly overpowered. I base this on the fact you dont even see LL get used anymore. Its always ERLL. If the ERLL is used in preference over the LL all the time it means the ERLL is too good. Its range needs to be lowered. ML could also use a slight heat decrease in order to help brawlers.

Edited by Khobai, 28 April 2014 - 04:54 AM.

[Creovex]

GreyGriffin, on 27 April 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

Is it just me or is the SLas/SPulseLas pretty... worthless? By the time you get in range you're being hammered by rapid AC's, if you stack them up their heat rapidly jumps off the chart as if you fire in conjunction with your other weapons, and they seem to take forever to put anything down.

Shouldn't the most common of all weapons be at least marginally effective above Lights?

Corrected

[Bishop Steiner]

GreyGriffin, on 27 April 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

I think you misread. I can hit Lights just fine (well, just as well as I can hit any other 'mech), but when the battle comes to grips in a brawl, heavy on heavy or even heavy on medium, all the MLas seems to do is spike my heat, not kill the other guy. I run a Jester with 4 ML's and 2 ERLL's, A C1 with LRM's, 3 ML's and a TAG, and plenty of other 'mechs with 1-4, and it feels like I am firing confetti at the other guy.

since we are talking a 1 ton weapon, vs virtually an other direct fire weapon weighing in at a minimum of 5 tons, and even more heat (not maybe as realized, because well, one really can't mount 4-5 Large Lasers, AC5s, etc, as realistically) one could realistically make an argument that the MLaser is actually a tad OP. As it is, with the doubled armor and DoT mechanic, it is just about where it should be, as a fine complimentary weapon for most mechs over 35 tons or so. Having run HBK-4Ps quite a bit, I can say while Hot, used right, they can core out many a mech. But most of the builds you speak of, I am willing to bet you are splashing your damage even more than you think in the heat of CQB. Any laser if you can't hold it (mostly) on target is going to do negligible damage.

[MeiSooHaityu]

To me the MLaser is a great jack of all trades, master of none weapon. This isn't a bad thing, in fact, it is a really good backup weapon. It even compliments higher alpha builds.

If you land a good hit with a ballistic and the armor is stripped with damaged internals, a multiple MLasers sweep can finish the opponent off while your ballistics cycle.

The Swayback is a whole other beast too. Another great mech once you learn to manage heat.

[Bobzilla]

MLs along with all lasers are pretty bad compaired to other weapon systems. The whole 8 MLs vs 2 AC20 isn't even compairable considering the 8 MLs will have their damage divided across 3 sections and probably have to fire less due to heat.


They aren't good at bust damage due to slow recycle time (same as ac20), and the fact that twisting basically divides the damage by at least 2.
They aren't good at sustained damage because they are too hot.


The only reason they are used so often is because they can be used as filler when other, better weapon systems are installed.

I'd argue, they are best used as a quick punch to finish off an enemy in as short of period as possible, when other weapons have done their job and can no longer be used (no ammo, min range). But MPL fill that role better anyways with lower cycle, more pinpont and more damage.

Edited by Bobzilla, 28 April 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[Ultimax]

The MLAS as others have said is a super efficient close range weapon that can either be boated using up to 6 before ghost heat kicks in or used as a backup weapon on pretty much any build with energy hardpoints and a ton or two to spare.

I find the closer the range, the less of an issue "spread" damage is.

You can line up your target and make a clean strike to a body part and seriously it's only a one second beam.


Let's say you fire your 6x MLAS 30 points of "spreadable" damage against a target who has amazing reflexes (or is a light mech) and they manage to react within 0.3s or 0.4s to twist and spread.

You still did 10 damage where you intended it for only 6 tons worth of weapon, and you probably did 20 points of damage elsewhere.

[Grimmrog]

Well i think its because of the low range low damage. actually sometimes I would like to replace the one or other bigger laser or PPC for them. But then if you haven't the right mech, you can not put multiple of them in sicne to the hard point restrictions. And having a mech with 2 E hardpoints is kinda hardly worth it to put on the medium lasers. imho, hardpoints should work different, actually a E hardpoint should be able to wield a single Large laser, 2 mediums or 3 small lasers. because in the end you sacrifice strenght and range for nothing. Ok, it weights less, but you cna rarely built on these lasers unless the mech comes with enough hardpoints by nature.

the clan mechs on the other side, like the nova with 6 ER medium lasers may get interesting.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bobzilla, on 28 April 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

MLs along with all lasers are pretty bad compaired to other weapon systems. The whole 8 MLs vs 2 AC20 isn't even compairable considering the 8 MLs will have their damage divided across 3 sections and probably have to fire less due to heat.


They aren't good at bust damage due to slow recycle time (same as ac20), and the fact that twisting basically divides the damage by at least 2.
They aren't good at sustained damage because they are too hot.


The only reason they are used so often is because they can be used as filler when other, better weapon systems are installed.

I'd argue, they are best used as a quick punch to finish off an enemy in as short of period as possible, when other weapons have done their job and can no longer be used (no ammo, min range). But MPL fill that role better anyways with lower cycle, more pinpont and more damage.

at one ton, how exactly SHOULD a medium laser be comparable to other weapons?


(and I would say I am happy ER Large LAsers aren't more "effective" or your Light Stealth Snipers would be unstaoppable)

[Gyrok]

I honestly wish they ran just a bit cooler...TT heat was 4 they run at 5 in MWO. But, beyond that...meh. They are in a good place damage wise.

[Gyrok]

Khobai, on 28 April 2014 - 04:42 AM, said:

For the most part ERLL have replaced ML as the goto laser.



I wouldnt say its the most powerful weapon per ton. Its certainly the most efficient weapon per ton though. Power and efficiency arnt the same thing however.

Right now, the game is locked in a sniper meta, so the power of a weapon is determined primarily by its range. The most powerful laser is the ERLL because of its massive range

ERLL are also slightly overpowered. I base this on the fact you dont even see LL get used anymore. Its always ERLL. If the ERLL is used in preference over the LL all the time it means the ERLL is too good. Its range needs to be lowered. ML could also use a slight heat decrease in order to help brawlers.

I still see a lot of regular LLs, and I still run them on plenty of builds. My DDC for example is the classic doorkicker build STD 325/AC20/3xSRM6/2xLL

This day and age I see a few more LPL than I used to, but the LL is still in a good spot. It runs a bit cooler than the ERs but still has good range.

[Ultimax]

Gyrok, on 28 April 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

I honestly wish they ran just a bit cooler...TT heat was 4 they run at 5 in MWO. But, beyond that...meh. They are in a good place damage wise.

MWO heat = 4.

Medium Pulse Lasers are 5.






Fun Random Laser Fact!

6x MLAS = 30 damage for 24 heat
3x LLAS = 27 damage for 24 heat (that's with Ghost Heat)

6x MLAS = 6 tons
3x LLAS = 15 Tons


So 6 tons of MLAS does the damage per heat of 15 tons worth of Large Large Lasers.


Some, personal, opinions based off that:

1) 6x MLAS is super efficient.
2) 3x LLAS ghost heat is actually not that bad (appprox 3 extra points). You lose 10% damage efficiency vs. the MLAS but you gain 180m of optimal range (for an extra 9 tons of course).


*I still think heat scale should not affect Large Lasers until the 4th one is added, but for the LLAS the heat scale isn't actually that bad at 3.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 28 April 2014 - 06:34 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 28 April 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

I honestly wish they ran just a bit cooler...TT heat was 4 they run at 5 in MWO. But, beyond that...meh. They are in a good place damage wise.

TT heat was 3, actually

[Roachbugg]

I tend to use the medium laser as a pack up weapons firing then between the cycles of my heavy hitters i find i get more kills out of medium lasers just because of their short cycle time,

I run 6 medium lasers and an ac/20 on my Boar's Head and it roflfacepwn stomps people.