89 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

I still see a lot of regular LLs,

I dont. I havent seen a regular LL in months. The ERLL is so much better. Its 50% more range for only 20% more heat.

[AlmightyAeng]

GreyGriffin, on 27 April 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

Is it just me or is the MLas pretty... worthless? By the time you get in range you're being hammered by rapid AC's, if you stack them up their heat rapidly jumps off the chart as if you fire in conjunction with your other weapons, and they seem to take forever to put anything down.

Shouldn't the most common of all weapons be at least marginally effective above Lights?

It's just you. Why were Jenners, and now Firestarter's, considered the "killers" of the light mech tree? Boated medium lasers.

Like someone else said, while they aren't FLD, 4 medium lasers is basically an AC20, for a quarter the tonnage, with endless ammo...all you have to do is have enough heatsinks.

My favorite build on my favorite mech is still 6x ML and 2 AC5...on that mech the BALLISTICS are the backup.

ML's are the most efficient weight/damage ratio weapon in the game. They're fantastic...you just have to position properly to use them.

If it's "taking forever" to down something, it may be your aim wavering. Aim for a single leg. Take THAT out, and leave the mech to die. Might help your effectiveness. For those pilots who have good aim with lasers...ML's tear face.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 28 April 2014 - 06:42 AM.

[CygnusX7]

The way I think about it.... Large laser weigh 5 times as much for less than double the damage.
Medium lasers are OP. Not really though because you have to hold on the same spot for the duration of beam (not op).

Edited by CygnusX7, 28 April 2014 - 06:44 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

The day has finally come. We've run out of things to complain about and someone went and did the one thing that we all never thought would happen: The Medium Laser is now bad.

/facepalm

[Karl Streiger]

Based on his stats...yes the MWO MLAS is bad bad bad.

In comparison with the Large Laser its toooo powerful. At its optimum max range of 270m it hardly should deal 40% of the damage of a Large Laser.

[AlmightyAeng]

Karl Streiger, on 28 April 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Based on his stats...yes the MWO MLAS is bad bad bad.

In comparison with the Large Laser its toooo powerful. At its optimum max range of 270m it hardly should deal 40% of the damage of a Large Laser.

Fine. You take your large laser. I'll take my 5 mediums, using the same tonnage.

Now which is better?


Edit: I misread your point. But they're not OP, BECAUSE of that range...they're actually what SRM's SHOULD be like. They're rewarding when boated for people who position properly, and still useful as backup weapons on mechs that have other main weapons.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 28 April 2014 - 07:04 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Ghost Badger, on 28 April 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

Fine. You take your large laser. I'll take my 5 mediums, using the same tonnage.

Now which is better?

In TT or in MWO?
in TT - depends on the range - my large laser will beat you at ranges of 120-150m and at ranges above 270m.

In MWO...i only have the range of > 540m to blink you to death

BUT IF: the MLAS would be a kind of DPS weapon - with reduced damage - and increased RoF....while the Large Laser is a powerful beam weapon with reduced RoF.... (wait there was a Mechwarrior game that had this)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 28 April 2014 - 07:06 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Karl Streiger, on 28 April 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

In TT or in MWO?
in TT - depends on the range - my large laser will beat you at ranges of 120-150m and at ranges above 270m.

In MWO...i only have the range of > 540m to blink you to death

Lol, you were answering as I was editing.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 28 April 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

I dont. I havent seen a regular LL in months. The ERLL is so much better. Its 50% more range for only 20% more heat.

I see standard larges all the time. LPL quite a bit now too. Most mechs I see with ERLarges either they only have one,l or they are shoot n scout stealth snipers like the CDA-3M, SPD-5D or RVN-3L. Most "serious" heavier builds eschew them for FLD weapons or less heat for big brawlers.

[AlmightyAeng]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 April 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

I see standard larges all the time. LPL quite a bit now too. Most mechs I see with ERLarges either they only have one,l or they are shoot n scout stealth snipers like the CDA-3M, SPD-5D or RVN-3L. Most "serious" heavier builds eschew them for FLD weapons or less heat for big brawlers.

With some exceptions...but they're mainly "troll" builds that work by accident, like my Heavy Metal with 3 ERLL on chain-fire and 2 AC2's. On paper, it shouldn't work. In play...it should overheat and die...but that thing rolls face hilariously.

Honestly, it depends on the number of heatsinks your mech is packing. Over 17+ and a switch of 2 LL to 2 ERLL is <2% heat difference.

Under 15 heatsinks, and the percentage changes dramatically. Some mechs can afford the change for minimal heat difference.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 28 April 2014 - 07:10 AM.

[Kaldor]

Troutmonkey, on 27 April 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

IMHO Medium lasers are one of the best weapon in the game, and I regularly boat them (4+) on most of my mechs.
My Stalker runs 6xMLas and wrecks face, the trick is getting close and bringing enough heat sinks.

They indeed do, but when brawling with them your mech will heat up pretty quickly and then the effectiveness of them drops rapidly as you cannot sustain damage. This really kills mediums who need to rely on MLs to get the job done. Sure you can hit and run, but while your doing that the meta build will just continue to pound you into the ground as you have to wait to cool down so you dont overheat and shut down.

[Trauglodyte]

The standard Large Laser is one of the most amazing weapons in the game. 1 less damage and 1 less heat than 2 Medium Lasers for 67% more range and a near equal recycle time. I can do more damage at a greater range and pilot smart to keep the range benefit in my favor. And all that I did was spend another 3 tons which, on some mechs, isn't that big of a deal. Given that some mechs are energy hard point limited, that is a great way of allocating tonnage.

[AlmightyAeng]

Kaldor, on 28 April 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

They indeed do, but when brawling with them your mech will heat up pretty quickly and then the effectiveness of them drops rapidly as you cannot sustain damage. This really kills mediums who need to rely on MLs to get the job done. Sure you can hit and run, but while your doing that the meta build will just continue to pound you into the ground as you have to wait to cool down so you dont overheat and shut down.

8 ML Blackjack 1-X...I think mine is named "ShootnScoot." It can manage 2 alphas on tourmaline before I need to take a moment to cool down around a hill...it's bar-none my favorite mech for running into a pack to get that one damaged component before fading back again.

Switching it down to 7 ML makes it a lot more manageable...but not using a hardpoint kills me a little inside.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 28 April 2014 - 07:31 AM.

[Kaldor]

Ghost Badger, on 28 April 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

8 ML Blackjack 1-X...I think mine is named "ShootnScoot." It can manage 2 alphas on tourmaline before I need to take a moment to cool down around a hill...it's bar-none my favorite mech for running into a pack to get that one damaged component before fading back again.

Switching it down to 7 ML makes it a lot more manageable...but not using a hardpoint kills me a little inside.

8 is pretty good providing you can get everything on target. BJ has enough tonnage to get XL295 and 9 DHS for 41% heat efficiency on Smurfy. Not a bad build at all, quick, small, and hard hitting.

I try to do the same thing with my Hunchy 4P with 8 MLs, but the mech just gets beat up or disarmed too easily as its about 20kph slower, and only slightly more armored. 7 SPLs and 2 MLs seems to work pretty decent, and can sustain fire pretty well.

[Fut]

Kaldor, on 28 April 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

They indeed do, but when brawling with them your mech will heat up pretty quickly and then the effectiveness of them drops rapidly as you cannot sustain damage. This really kills mediums who need to rely on MLs to get the job done. Sure you can hit and run, but while your doing that the meta build will just continue to pound you into the ground as you have to wait to cool down so you dont overheat and shut down.

This is exactly why Heat Management is an important skill.
You have to know how your Mech behaves when shooting the various weapons on board... Once you're riding high heat, you should have a pre-practiced firing rate worked out for your MLs. This way you'll be able to sustain fire without shutting down.

[Kaldor]

Fut, on 28 April 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

This is exactly why Heat Management is an important skill.
You have to know how your Mech behaves when shooting the various weapons on board... Once you're riding high heat, you should have a pre-practiced firing rate worked out for your MLs. This way you'll be able to sustain fire without shutting down.

Look at my Founders tag and how long Ive been signed up on these forums. Youre preaching to the choir brother...

The fact is, energy heavy mechs in this game suffer due to the heat system, especially brawler types. Back in CB when we didnt have DHS it was less apparent because you couldnt really boat heavy energy weapons, because you couldnt get the ridiculous heat cap like we have now. Now we all have DHS and huge heat caps and weapons like the ML take a back seat because running a PPC makes more sense than running 2-3 MLs if you have the tonnage available.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Fut, on 28 April 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

This is exactly why Heat Management is an important skill.
You have to know how your Mech behaves when shooting the various weapons on board... Once you're riding high heat, you should have a pre-practiced firing rate worked out for your MLs. This way you'll be able to sustain fire without shutting down.

For anyone who wants to learn good and proper heat management, I recommend rolling in a Hunchback 4P "Swayback". Operating that mech with 9MLasers. If you can sustain fire and hug the redline without going over the redline and shutting down, you can master heat management under pressure

[Trauglodyte]

Hell, running anything with just 6 Md Lasers is a crash course in heat management. Or run 2 ER PPCs and let me know how that works for you.

[wanderer]

Funny thing is, without ghost heat we'd see a lot more ML boats- but ghost heat hurts energy boating worst. Even so, you'll see 4-6 ML's on many designs, because they're a cheap and effective secondary weapon battery to back up a longer-range gun, or even as a main battery for brawler types. Heck, I ran that freebie Thunderbolt with 5 ML's + MPL/2MG on the arms and a big ol' standard engine. It proved surprisingly good

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 April 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

I see standard larges all the time. LPL quite a bit now too. Most mechs I see with ERLarges either they only have one,l or they are shoot n scout stealth snipers like the CDA-3M, SPD-5D or RVN-3L. Most "serious" heavier builds eschew them for FLD weapons or less heat for big brawlers.

I see similar things as well.

Although I do use 2x ER LLAS on a STK-3F build.

wanderer, on 28 April 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

Funny thing is, without ghost heat we'd see a lot more ML boats

EDIT: My math was off, removed.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 28 April 2014 - 09:12 AM.