342 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

LBX 10!!!!! I love em

[Bishop Steiner]

mwhighlander, on 02 May 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

This is what a lot of our mindset is aiming for. Since PGI is clearly not going to change LBX away from the shotgun mentality, might as well go the whole distance and up the damage to 1.4 per pellet (LB10 did 14 damage in Mw4 and was amazing) at the cost of cutting its Canon range of 540 down to say like 350 and its recycle from 2.5 to like 3.5 (so it doesn't out DPS an AC20 which is still pinpoint I might also add).

Bam, done, LBX is great and the revival of brawling will commence!

Share our dream Bishop! An LBX buff would be the answer to breaking the sniper meta!

that cooldown would actually ruin my jager build. I think the spread mechanic is enough to differentiate the dps issue compared to an ac20.

[Koniving]

I rather consistently do quite well with an LB and AC/2 combination in a Heavy Metal. 2 Streaks, 3 ML, LB and AC/2 with an XL 330 engine. Examples below. My typical match is between 500 and a thousand damage and I consistently score pretty high with it in both damage and kills. My greatest joy with it is the heat efficiency. It allows me to never worry about overheating. Ever. And that's important.

Spoiler

Those two were three matches apart. Those were pugged.

You can see one of those two matches here, as I command the team and make my kills and damage.

Then there's this one. This one was in a 3-man where Sinister was using a meta-ish rig, and not sure what Wolf was using. I wasn't working together with Sinister as I was more interested in brawling and flanking than sharp shooting, and Wolf tried so hard to keep up with me but I kept leaving him in the dust as I chased down mech after mech after mech. No issues shooting while leaping. Always on target, whether in the air or on the ground even with the shake. Ultimately I had orange and red parts all over the place, no AC/2 ammo, lost 2 of the 3 ML and a leg but still had some LB ammo.


It's this mech.


Now for a comparison.. Here's a 4G.

Recorded externally, so you can see what I did. I confess the ECM did help.


Or this, much more recent.



And these, while not terribly recent, also use LBs. Notice compared to more recent videos the spread is considerably larger.



Where here, an LB by itself (with lasers).. In the second match, the hits are so precise it looks like an AC/20 round when it hits.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 02 May 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

1.4 is too high anyway. Do you really want LB10Xs doing more dps than an AC20? Plus thered be absolutely no reason to ever touch an AC10 then.

It's almost as if the AC/20 has superior pinpoint potential and the AC/10 has dramatically better range due to not being a buckshot.

[Chrithu]

I've know the LB-10X to be awesome for quite some time now. I think since the first update pass to them which narrowed down their cone of fire and slightly increased their crit rate they are pretty awesome guns.

Been running 3 of them with 6 tons of ammo on my Murowitz alongside 3 ML and a 270XL. ANd it does kick ass. Especially when teammates already thinned out the armor it can sometimes kill an enemy within seconds, let alone the shock effect those things have when you alternate fire the 2 arm mounted and the torso mounted one. I mean I literaly saw people burst in panic and turn around in a reflex to just get away from me, which usually is a deathsentence.

[Khobai]

Quote

It's almost as if the AC/20 has superior pinpoint potential and the AC/10 has dramatically better range due to not being a buckshot.

But again the LB10X isnt meant to be a damage weapon. Its meant to be a versatile/utility weapon.

MWO already has plenty of damage weapons. In fact the whole point of the game is to do damage. Its boring. It would be nice to have some weapons that had roles other than doing damage... and it would be nice if those roles were VIABLE too.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Khobai, on 02 May 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

But again the LB10X isnt meant to be a damage weapon. Its meant to be a versatile/utility weapon.

MWO already has plenty of damage weapons. In fact the whole point of the game is to do damage. Its boring. It would be nice to have some weapons that had roles other than doing damage... and it would be nice if those roles were VIABLE too.

Weapons that don't do damage. So... aside from the flamer not being able to shutdown mechs or Narc being irrelevant in information gathering...

Yeah I'd rather have the LBX be good at something (like a shotgun that PGI lazily created) than be an overweight "utility" weapon.

Edited by mwhighlander, 02 May 2014 - 07:38 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 02 May 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

But again the LB10X isnt meant to be a damage weapon. Its meant to be a versatile/utility weapon.

MWO already has plenty of damage weapons. In fact the whole point of the game is to do damage. Its boring. It would be nice to have some weapons that had roles other than doing damage... and it would be nice if those roles were VIABLE too.

Technically speaking, critting out components is still dealing damage...it's just dealing damage to the gooey bits of an enemy mech rather than the whole body section.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 02 May 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

But again the LB10X isnt meant to be a damage weapon. Its meant to be a versatile/utility weapon.

MWO already has plenty of damage weapons. In fact the whole point of the game is to do damage. Its boring. It would be nice to have some weapons that had roles other than doing damage... and it would be nice if those roles were VIABLE too.

11 ton weapon bloody well is meant to damage. In TT, in MW3, MW4, and yes, even here. It just that they want it to excel at critical damage, too.

[Waelsleaht]

I run a orion with 2 LB10x, 3 ML, and 2 SRM 6+Art. I have gone toe to toe with atlases useing ac20/2erppc, ac40 mechs, ect even when damaged and still won when they wernt damaged when the fight started. its all in the shot placement and making sure your not the only one there for their team to shoot at. if you are and your first in you are dead fast. Otherwise if you go in 2nd or 3rd and your not focused you wreck everything you see.

Ive even begun to try and find ways to fit 2 LB10x on other mechs to try it out. unfortunatly most mechs i have cant fit it besides the orion and Jeager.

[SethAbercromby]

Waelsleaht, on 02 May 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

I run a orion with 2 LB10x, 3 ML, and 2 SRM 6+Art. I have gone toe to toe with atlases useing ac20/2erppc, ac40 mechs, ect even when damaged and still won when they wernt damaged when the fight started. its all in the shot placement and making sure your not the only one there for their team to shoot at. if you are and your first in you are dead fast. Otherwise if you go in 2nd or 3rd and your not focused you wreck everything you see.

I'm using LBX + ASRM6 + 4ML + LPL on my Misery with the MLs on chainfire. Why chainfire you ask? Because with 4 MLs, the instant the 4th has finished, the first one is ready to fire again, creating a continuous beam. Enemies tend to react very confused to me doing this, and since the SRM6 and LBX don't follow the same firing rhythm, twisting away from the actual damage becomes increasingly difficult and enemies end up with a damaged torso area very quickly, which is where the LB starts becoming increasingly dangerous with each second.

[Khobai]

Quote

11 ton weapon bloody well is meant to damage.

not really. theres a reason why every buff to the LB10X has been to increase its crit chance or crit damage. PGI doesnt want it to be a damage weapon. they want it to be a crit weapon. thats what the game developers themselves want. they just havent gone about it in the best way...

[MischiefSC]

So I'm running a Shawk with an LB10X, 3xSSRMs and and a LL, 275XL and 3 JJs.

I suck in mediums, I do. Struggling to avoid doing stupid stuff.

I did solo an Atlas however, and a Banshee in another match. I keep getting caught in the open (no AMS, I'm greedy for ammo) and getting killed but even with this....

I see the potential. It's not the Jag, but it's not bad.

Oh, and just to avoid the temptation to use arty/airstrike (which could skew results) I got...

LB10X extended range level 2 and module!

Cuz I'm a rockstar.

Edited by MischiefSC, 03 May 2014 - 01:11 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Edited to add -

I just suck too much with mediums for it to be relevant. The Shawk build was alright; by that I mean I wasn't any worse with it than I am in any build.

So I've gone with mwhighlanders 3D suggestion of PPCs plus LB10X.

He wasn't kidding; it wrecks face pretty easily and while the PPCs are not good at closer than 90m and that's were the LB10X start to shine best the synergy between 20pts pinpoint with 20pts scatter with crit seeking is impressive. Also it adds a certain poptart element to it. The 2 extra tons and crit spaces on the 3D means you can keep the PPCs in the side torso and not go arms (there isn't room for a PPC if you go XL and AC10) and extra ammo, or armor, or JJs, or a better engine.

Another example of a build that is more viable since the AC nerf.

I hate to say this because I really wasn't a fan of it in principle but....

The AC10/AC20 nerf actually created some more room for the 10X in a few places. Not many and I'm sure it more or less killed plenty of builds, but now that 5s and 2s got their nerfs too those should be moving back into viability by comparison, just now, by dint of all other ACs getting nerfed, the 10Xs are a better choice than they were.

[krolmir]

I like the LBX-10 but the weapon still leaves too much on the table. The LBX series of A/C was supposed to be an improvement on the original A/C series of weapons. I was designed to be an anti-personnel and an anti-mech weapon. Sure it is lighter and takes 1 less critical slot ( I think). It was supposed to be able to use regular A/C ammo and the LB-X scatter shot. It had multiple weapon modes that the "pilot" could select. Considering the cost of the LBX-10 compared to the A/C-10, and I feel it should be implemented, hell they could triple the cost of the LBX and that feature alone would still make it worth it.

I will list the advantages of the LB-X series:
Range was better across the board (LBX-20 hits to 350, LBX-10 hits to 540 etc.)
LBX-10 is 11 tons and 6 slots

I will now list the disadvantages of the LB-X series:
LBX-2 requires 4 slots at 6 tons
LBX-5 requires 5 slots at 8 tons
LBX-20 requires 11 slots at 13 tons

Here's the link to the LBX page at sarna http://www.sarna.net...LB-X_Autocannon

This brings me to my main point about the LBX-10 in particular, it could be boon to medium mechs that can carry ballistics, if it was capable of being used as originally intended. Medium mechs sacrifice everything in the name of mediocrity, and sure heavier mechs can carry the LBX-10 as well; but heavies and assaults carry them better to begin with. In the games current state they pack the tonnage and slots to carry enough pinpoint damage to highlight its current strengths, and subdue it's weaknesses.

Months back in an old ask the devs they said they were going to look into multiple ammo types for different weapons systems, and since that comment I would say they haven't even given it another thought, which is truly unfortunate. It could be a game changing update, and most likely a welcome one.

[Bishop Steiner]

krolmir, on 03 May 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

I like the LBX-10 but the weapon still leaves too much on the table. The LBX series of A/C was supposed to be an improvement on the original A/C series of weapons. I was designed to be an anti-personnel and an anti-mech weapon. Sure it is lighter and takes 1 less critical slot ( I think). It was supposed to be able to use regular A/C ammo and the LB-X scatter shot. It had multiple weapon modes that the "pilot" could select. Considering the cost of the LBX-10 compared to the A/C-10, and I feel it should be implemented, hell they could triple the cost of the LBX and that feature alone would still make it worth it.

Once they took RnR out, cost really is a non issue. Yes it matters for the grind it will take to initially invest, but that is not a balancer without an economy and RnR model. The only way to make it a Dual Purpose weapon like it is supposed to, without obsoleting the ac10 (just one of FASAs early OOPS moments) would be to reduce the range of the Cluster round, a LOT, and probably reduce total damage of the Solid Slug to 7-8 damage, so that while still a viable focus damage, it is not the equal to the heavier, bulkier ac10.

Weapon and tech progression makes sense, but unfortunately, in game mechanics, especially an FPS, balance means more than logic.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

MischiefSC, on 03 May 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

The AC10/AC20 nerf actually created some more room for the 10X in a few places. Not many and I'm sure it more or less killed plenty of builds, but now that 5s and 2s got their nerfs too those should be moving back into viability by comparison, just now, by dint of all other ACs getting nerfed, the 10Xs are a better choice than they were.

While true, but making everything suck worse so the garbage doesn't smell as bad isn't a good solution to anything, really.

It would be better if PGI would stop being so stubborn and buff the LBX, to usher in a new age of brawling meta!

Fixed SRM damage and a buffed LBX would be such a breath of fresh air.

[MischiefSC]

mwhighlander, on 03 May 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

While true, but making everything suck worse so the garbage doesn't smell as bad isn't a good solution to anything, really.

It would be better if PGI would stop being so stubborn and buff the LBX, to usher in a new age of brawling meta!

Fixed SRM damage and a buffed LBX would be such a breath of fresh air.

I don't disagree in some ways, but balance is balance. It's about bringing the highs down a bit and the lows up a bit.

The LB10X needs a buff, but less than you'd expect.

[MischiefSC]

Boy, it's kinda funny being the only guy in the match without Arty

The Phract doesn't work as well with an XL as the Jag does but the JJs help. Also like the synergy with the PPCs.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 03 May 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Boy, it's kinda funny being the only guy in the match without Arty

The Phract doesn't work as well with an XL as the Jag does but the JJs help. Also like the synergy with the PPCs.

Funny thing about this...I wonder about actual Arty/Air Strike damage buffing to scores. I have not done a scientific test where I have recorded stuff yet, but using LCT-3Sir NarcsaLot where my only offensive firepower IS Art/Air, I have seldom broken 200 damage. Now I might not be an Arty-Artiste, but I have an inkling that the matches where one's damage gets huge buffs from Arty, are a lot fewer and far between than people think (just as almost universally, I have found peoples reported "Average" match damage to shrink exponentially when one actually does the math, instead of going by gut because of the "good matches".)

Might have to try a 20 game run in the little booger and record my results. Mind you the real version I Had to strip the ams and a ton of narc ammo for heat sinks. Just never tweaked the Smurfy (do that now....LCT-3S)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 03 May 2014 - 02:26 PM.