196 replies to this topic

[HighTest]

IraqiWalker, on 12 May 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

I could care less if 15 of my 50 missile salvo missed, right now. Because by the time that first salvo lands, I have 2 more already in the air, on their way, and with Target decay, they are almost guaranteed to hit as well. So over all I will not be affected by the enemy's skill. The current system does not reward the players for dodging a salvo properly.

I'm not so worried about when you miss. I'm more worried about when you hit.

IraqiWalker, on 12 May 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

You see with multiple salvos, the target being able to dodge is negated.

True. But your ability to dodge is negated even further when you are incapacitated or dead. If you plant 40 or 50 missiles on a Medium or Light at 2.X damage each, I don't like that mech's odds.

[Kjudoon]

IraqiWalker, on 09 May 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

Yeah, but Victor and I disagree on a LOT of things, that would be one of them. Let's see how his LRM boat does when my LCT-3M sits under it's crotch with 2 AMS whittling away at his volleys, and shooting it in the face.

Also, how much more ammo do you need? I can make my BLR carry around 3000 rounds. That's more than enough to turn the entire battlefield into a big crater. Of course, his builds have the huge problem of mandating Artemis, which I ignore on mechs with multiple launchers (like the BLR) saves me 4 tons and 4 slots, which more than compensate for the spread, and then some.

Ohh IW... do you B33f-grief the poor missile boats? tsk tsk tsk... you naughty boy.

[IraqiWalker]

HighTest, on 12 May 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

True. But your ability to dodge is negated even further when you are incapacitated or dead. If you plant 40 or 50 missiles on a Medium or Light at 2.X damage each, I don't like that mech's odds.

The problem is that LRMs are supposed to deal that much damage, Since we got the double armor increase LRM damage wasn't brought up to bear.

As far as dodging them goes, with the current speed LRMs travel at, they are much easier to dodge than before. I still remember when I could curve the bullet, so to speak, with LRMs. Now, if I lose lock for 1 seconds, that's good enough to render the entire salvo a miss, and yes, LRMs should wreck you when you get hit by them. So far they are the easiest system to hard counter/shut down in the game. More so than the others.

If i hit you, they should hurt, instead of tickle, and if you dodge them, you should feel relieved, instead of thinking "uh oh, got 350 more to go before I'm clear" Playing DDR with a mech isn't that fun.

Actually, on second thought, that might be fun, but not if the buttons are all missiles exploding on you.

Kjudoon, on 12 May 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

Ohh IW... do you B33f-grief the poor missile boats? tsk tsk tsk... you naughty boy.

Hey, it's a viable tactic. Quite hilarious too.

[HighTest]

IraqiWalker, on 12 May 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

The problem is that LRMs are supposed to deal that much damage, Since we got the double armor increase LRM damage wasn't brought up to bear.

True. But all other weapons still do 'single' damage -- making LRMs do double would make them relatively over-powered to everything else. Remember, the devs doubled armor so that the games went on a little longer. Being able to strip the armor off a Commando in a single volley wasn't exactly what they were looking to accomplish.

If you made each missile in an LRM volley do 2.2 damage, that's 44 damage from an LRM 20. More than double the 'scariest' weapon in the game, the AC20. (Let's leave recycle out of the discussion.) That's potentially more than being popped by a dual AC20 Jager. (Sure, the LRM damage isn't focused, but you get the idea.) Besides, and AC20 Jager is pretty much maxxed out for tonnage -- many mechs can pack 2 LRM20s or more. 80 to 100 (potential) damage from one volley? Seems a little unfair / unbalanced to me. Even with a slow recycle penalty.

IraqiWalker, on 12 May 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

Playing DDR with a mech isn't that fun.

Actually, on second thought, that might be fun, but not if the buttons are all missiles exploding on you.

Hey, it's a viable tactic. Quite hilarious too.

LOL. Well, if they put that in as a mini-game, maybe more people will forget that they are waiting for Community Warfare or an improved matchmaker. It might buy the devs some time! Besides, think of the free viral advertising they could get from people posting dancing mechs on YouTube! Then again, the world already has:

[Furiel]

My concern with the double damage/reload time is what new tactics that would come out that would have little or no counter.

Could easily make a Raven-3L with max armor, 2 ML, ALRM10 with 3 tons of ammo (54 volleys), 280 XL engine so it runs at 142 with speed tweak. It would be fast enough that it could get to firing range at the start of the match before people could get under cover and with target decay, etc it could fire and duck before anyone could fire back. 9 second reload, no problem I just run a lap around the map and by the time I'm back my missiles are ready again. It would make ECM and AMS MANDATORY at all times and PUG matches and n00bs would have almost no shot against that build. As much LRM hate as their is now...this would actually probably compound the issue because instead of getting constantly pelted and can't see you get 1-volley cored instead.

[IraqiWalker]

HighTest, on 12 May 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

True. But all other weapons still do 'single' damage -- making LRMs do double would make them relatively over-powered to everything else. Remember, the devs doubled armor so that the games went on a little longer. Being able to strip the armor off a Commando in a single volley wasn't exactly what they were looking to accomplish.

If you made each missile in an LRM volley do 2.2 damage, that's 44 damage from an LRM 20. More than double the 'scariest' weapon in the game, the AC20. (Let's leave recycle out of the discussion.) That's potentially more than being popped by a dual AC20 Jager. (Sure, the LRM damage isn't focused, but you get the idea.) Besides, and AC20 Jager is pretty much maxxed out for tonnage -- many mechs can pack 2 LRM20s or more. 80 to 100 (potential) damage from one volley? Seems a little unfair / unbalanced to me. Even with a slow recycle penalty.

Actually, all other weapons are doing triple their damage. The AC 20 is dealing 60 within 10 seconds, instead of 20. The burst of damage that you fear will actually be no different from the other weapons right now. The AC 20 will still, beyond all logic, deal 60 damage instead of the 20 it should, and worse, it's pinpoint, while the LRM 20 will deal 44 damage spread all over the mech, meaning you'll end up with volleys that deal a total of 5 damage to a mech's CT, not to mention that missile volleys don't really land all on the mech. If the target mech is moving, you're losing about half your volley, especially with the big launchers, meaning the LRM 20 currently deals 15 or less damage to the mech it's targeting, if the target is on the move. The flight speed increase which many view as a buff, is actually a nerf in my opinion. Yeah, my missiles can get there faster, but they fly so fast they can't correct their trajectory to compensate for running targets as well as they used to. If we keep the current flight speed, and go with double-double, I think LRMs will be in a great position. It will make them an actual weapon choice, instead of ... whatever they are now. Everyone is strapping LRMs because you can spam them and not worry about heat or anyone getting close to you easily. However, once changes like that are implemented, people will actually have to think and make a proper choice on whether or not they want to use LRMs in their mechs.

HighTest, on 12 May 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

LOL. Well, if they put that in as a mini-game, maybe more people will forget that they are waiting for Community Warfare or an improved matchmaker. It might buy the devs some time! Besides, think of the free viral advertising they could get from people posting dancing mechs on YouTube! Then again, the world already has:

TRANSFORMERS ARE REAL!!!! I knew it!

[n r g]

dbassa, on 03 May 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

Hey

i rly liked this game, as i liked all the MW games before this.

BUT

Im just askin me;

Why are Players, that have to make thoughts about engines, balanced loadouts, heatsinks etc not earned?

They got to aim, they are playin in the frontlines or at least in the forward 70% battlefield.

Instead, little noobs earn so much CBills, do so much DMG and all they got to do is to wait for a ******* red circle.

Just wanted to get rid of my frustration, because of LRMS i will never play this game again and i hope more ppl follow me and show the developers, that balance is a need for a good game,

This is NOT a good game.

Thx [redacted]

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

things are kinda buggy at the moment with Damage..

I've seen lrms do no more than 1-5 damage a volley and sometimes I've seen (or been on the receiving end) of volleys which took off 5-10 damage.. and lost around 40% armor in about 20 seconds lol.

Subsequently, I've alpa shot some guys and one shot killed them,other times, most of the stuff didn't register for some weird reason and did 5 damage.

Lots of bugs. However, as many have said, LRMS aren't half as lethal as they seem for the most part. However it's a tricky subject and one which is quite frankly, being discussed a lot (Im done debating the matter too much since I've noticed LRM boat guys come in and get super defensive.. maybe rightfully so).

I'm just waiting to see if these bugs get fixed or not. The AC20 can deal out serious damage, however there have been times where these bugs meant I fired and saw the round go through the guy. I thought it was lag but I checked my ping and it was fine. I also Alpha'd a guy and it took like 4 seconds for the hits to register and the guy to die.. was stupid and I have no idea why that has been happening of late.

[Kjudoon]

BaronBastardKiller, on 13 May 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

things are kinda buggy at the moment with Damage..

I've seen lrms do no more than 1-5 damage a volley and sometimes I've seen (or been on the receiving end) of volleys which took off 5-10 damage.. and lost around 40% armor in about 20 seconds lol.

Subsequently, I've alpa shot some guys and one shot killed them,other times, most of the stuff didn't register for some weird reason and did 5 damage.

Lots of bugs. However, as many have said, LRMS aren't half as lethal as they seem for the most part. However it's a tricky subject and one which is quite frankly, being discussed a lot (Im done debating the matter too much since I've noticed LRM boat guys come in and get super defensive.. maybe rightfully so).

I'm just waiting to see if these bugs get fixed or not. The AC20 can deal out serious damage, however there have been times where these bugs meant I fired and saw the round go through the guy. I thought it was lag but I checked my ping and it was fine. I also Alpha'd a guy and it took like 4 seconds for the hits to register and the guy to die.. was stupid and I have no idea why that has been happening of late.

That's the wonders of randumb LRM spread. I've popped red core ravens at 300m and not had them go down with 44 point salvos. Why? Spread... even with Artemis.

HSR is not perfect nor will it ever be. sigh... And don't forget, what we see on the screen is not the same as what the servers see. So we have to keep that and mind when we see shells go through. But when you do see an explosion, rest assured, you hit em.

[Eider]

Love how all the players talk about lrms being in a good spot and dps blah blah while ignoring that it is an indirect weapon you can fire with no risks. I basicly make it a point to unload all lrm before i actually 'play' and move in. In fact i just won a game spamming lrm half bored and using just one hand. Ecm? yea good thing you can use tag, wich means you actually take some risk. Sorry, but its pretty bad when you can win by spamming lrms and not even trying. I agree with op that balance is needed in this game. Lrm is not hard to play and its dps is above par due to basicly being risk free damage.

[IraqiWalker]

Eider, on 13 May 2014 - 11:24 PM, said:

Love how all the players talk about lrms being in a good spot and dps blah blah while ignoring that it is an indirect weapon you can fire with no risks. I basicly make it a point to unload all lrm before i actually 'play' and move in. In fact i just won a game spamming lrm half bored and using just one hand. Ecm? yea good thing you can use tag, wich means you actually take some risk. Sorry, but its pretty bad when you can win by spamming lrms and not even trying. I agree with op that balance is needed in this game. Lrm is not hard to play and its dps is above par due to basicly being risk free damage.

We've already gone over the points for why your argument is flawed. Such as the fact that without spotters and a concerted team effort, you are useless and dead weight. Or how if we change LRMs to do double double damage but have double the reload time it would mitigate the spam problem and bring them more in line with how they should operate.

We've also talked about how AMS can shut them down, a piece of equipment that should mandatory on any mech.

Honestly, LRMs are not only the easiest system to counter, but the easiest to shut down too. What other system gives your opponent 4+ seconds of time to dodge the shot? What other system has hard counters to it in the equipment section for an affordable price and low tonnage?

Yeah, current LRMs should actually be more like SRMs with a long range (that's how they should be, our current LRMs are Streak LRMs, Koniving correct me if I'm wrong) However, LRMs are no way Overpowered, in fact as mentioned before with all of the number crunching, they are under powered. The only reason to die to them, is either the enemy team did a really good job banking their chips on the LRM boats, and your team failed to do a thing about it. Or, you got caught out in the open, and decided cover isn't a good idea.

Yeah, you can win with LRMs, you can win even easier with lasers, and easier still with Ballistics.

As for damage, that's not a point for the weapon, that's a point against it. It takes 400+ damage with LRMs to bring down a mech, while it takes about half that if not even less, to do the same with any other system out there. Which when pugging means it can make farming C-Bills a bit easier, but in competitive play, no one considers it a viable kill weapon.

I like LRMs where they are now, but I think double-double, would put them in a better spot and makes them a more balanced weapon.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 14 May 2014 - 06:30 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Eider, on 13 May 2014 - 11:24 PM, said:

Love how all the players talk about lrms being in a good spot and dps blah blah while ignoring that it is an indirect weapon you can fire with no risks. I basicly make it a point to unload all lrm before i actually 'play' and move in. In fact i just won a game spamming lrm half bored and using just one hand. Ecm? yea good thing you can use tag, wich means you actually take some risk. Sorry, but its pretty bad when you can win by spamming lrms and not even trying. I agree with op that balance is needed in this game. Lrm is not hard to play and its dps is above par due to basicly being risk free damage.

Don't get comfortable with it that way. Enjoy the 'ease' while it lasts. As your Elo rises, you'll meet more and more players that can deal with LRMs because the defenses are far more powerful than the enhancements.

Some of this attitude reminds me of British soldiers complaining that they never got a 'real challenge' facing off against the Zulus.

Edited by Kjudoon, 14 May 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[Dano_man]

Agreed Kjudoon, I run missile boats and know that when they are coming in especially from outside of 500 meters there are ways to avoid them....I think you taught me that one...and then we try counterbattery fire....you don't have to have locks to fire missiles at them, put them in the general area and there alarms scream like a lock. Also as IraqiWalker said AMS is hell on missiles, but too many of us, myself included don't want to put AMS and one ton of ammo much less two on a mech. Why that's 2 medium lasers and a small laser I gotta give up. So if you don't like LRM's get AMS, the trade off is that you can't be a walking laser battery.

Edited by Dano117, 14 May 2014 - 08:55 AM.

[Bigbacon]

Eider, on 13 May 2014 - 11:24 PM, said:

Love how all the players talk about lrms being in a good spot and dps blah blah while ignoring that it is an indirect weapon you can fire with no risks. I basicly make it a point to unload all lrm before i actually 'play' and move in. In fact i just won a game spamming lrm half bored and using just one hand. Ecm? yea good thing you can use tag, wich means you actually take some risk. Sorry, but its pretty bad when you can win by spamming lrms and not even trying. I agree with op that balance is needed in this game. Lrm is not hard to play and its dps is above par due to basicly being risk free damage.

the risk is being a one shot pony. not saying there aren't LRM boats that can defend themselves really well up close but least in pugs, it doesn't seem that way. once you get in their face they don't know what to do or don't have the weapons to fight you off. Also, their missile "pod" are easy targets for people.

They can try and hide, but you always know where they are by the stream of missiles.

Again, I bet there are some really good LRM teams out there but in PUGs, they aren't a threat to me for the most part. I'd rather charge a LRM boat than deal with a 1v1 light fight.

[Bulletsponge0]

IraqiWalker, on 12 May 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

As far as dodging them goes, with the current speed LRMs travel at, they are much easier to dodge than before. I still remember when I could curve the bullet, so to speak, with LRMs. Now, if I lose lock for 1 seconds, that's good enough to render the entire salvo a miss, and yes, LRMs should wreck you when you get hit by them. So far they are the easiest system to hard counter/shut down in the game. More so than the others.



Hey, it's a viable tactic. Quite hilarious too.

Wait.....you would do what to me???????

[Bulletsponge0]

I've found an easy way to at least temporarily stop a LRM boat from firing..

I carry streaks..lock on at any distance away and fire the streak..maters not if they have any chance of hitting..the "Warning: Incomng missile" warning being announced to the pilot of an LRM boat often puts the fear of God in them and they start scurrying around for cover....then you can close the distance and finish them off

[ExoForce]

Bulletsponge0, on 14 May 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

I've found an easy way to at least temporarily stop a LRM boat from firing..

I carry streaks..lock on at any distance away and fire the streak..maters not if they have any chance of hitting..the "Warning: Incomng missile" warning being announced to the pilot of an LRM boat often puts the fear of God in them and they start scurrying around for cover....then you can close the distance and finish them off

and then my cross-chained 5 MLAS will make your eyes wide open... with additional ninja LRM tickle.

[Bulletsponge0]

ExoForce, on 14 May 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

and then my cross-chained 5 MLAS will make your eyes wide open... with additional ninja LRM tickle.

good luck aiming with your screen shaking from my 5 SSRMs as I chew off armor with my 3 MPLs...

[ExoForce]

sounds like a respectable duelist

[Bulletsponge0]

ExoForce, on 14 May 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

sounds like a respectable duelist

Did I mention I'll be screaming around you at 110kph minimum??