The fix for the lurms is very straight forward. For one day, all of the teams from RHoD and MRBC, bring nothing but lurm boats to the public queue. The forums would crash under the weight of rage quit threads.
They could bring locusts and win half the time, seeing how poorly some pugs can play.
Teamwork is OP, that's the simple truth. Doesn't matter what you bring.
Given that the perennial scrub favourite -- the LRM 60 Stalker -- does 66 points of damage in a single volley, I can only assume you haven't found the power button for your mech yet. That this damage doesn't require line-of-sight, or aim, and is delivered from ~1,000m,
Wait...what game are we talking about?
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means you should be ashamed if you don't break 1,000 damage with some consistency.
I'd say the enemy team should be ashamed if you do
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The fix for the lurms is very straight forward. For one day, all of the teams from RHoD and MRBC, bring nothing but lurm boats to the public queue. The forums would crash under the weight of rage quit threads.
I don't see how making new/bad players cry more on the forums is a fix for LRM's. But they do need a direct-fire buff imo.
LocationStomping around in a giant robot, of course.
Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:14 AM
Lynx7725, on 04 May 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:
So you're saying LRMs are the easy mode to teamwork?
I can live with that.
That's exactly what I say. LRMs are the most natural (if more vulnerable to disruption) form of getting otherwise random players to work together. Since it causes the highest number of OP teamwork combo-kills to happen, it drives PUGs batty because combined effort in PUG play is like sunlight to vampires.
It used to be that Orions were brawling mechs, but they're now being utilized as LRM boats. ON1-V LRM Boat
And what it does is this:
Because I've made the argument in so many threads, Everyone knows LRM's are the joke weapon of the MWO weapon systems , When you really get down to the pro's vs con's of every weapon lrm's are easily the hardest and probably other then MG's and SL's the weakest in game.
Flaming oblivion, on 04 May 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:
Because I've made the argument in so many threads, Everyone knows LRM's are the joke weapon of the MWO weapon systems , When you really get down to the pro's vs con's of every weapon lrm's are easily the hardest and probably other then MG's and SL's the weakest in game.
Hey, don't diss the MGs. The MG-loving crowd will crucify you.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves about LRMs - they're not fun. They're not fun to use, be killed by, or win with. The problem is pretty unsolvable without a considerable change in mechanics, so it will just remain unfun.
Personally I love using them and winning with them. If I die to them then I die to them.
Why is it that people will get pounded to pieces by mass laser fire, ac fire or PPCs and not whine about it. A few LRMs and mass whining ensues. It honestly makes no sense at all.
And before some dork whine about indirect fire or something seriously stupid along those lines, I point you to the catapult video from PGI. It is the mech to play where the enemy won't see you coming. That is the point.
If your team is smart and targets yu can fire indirectly. If they are not.. then you expose yourself to fire. More often than not, you are exposing yourself to shoot your LRMs. Therefore you can be shot.
So seriously.. why all the freaking whining about LRMs.
Getting rapidly pounded by ACs will shake your screen as badly as any LRM volley and do a heck of a lot more damage. They force you to cover as effectively and you need to be quicker about it before you lose components or die.
I could go through all the reasons why LRMs actually take a degree of skill to use especially in pugs. Snipers can function in pugs and premades without much change. Brawlers are the easiest. You get close, circle a lot while shooting all you can. Doesn't matter if you are in a PUG or premade.
ECM will shut down LRMS. They are not 100% reliable in PUGs but if you stay close to the ECM mech it will help. AMS is the same way. It is more effective than it used to be. If you are dumb enough not to take AMS then that is your fault. The more people who take AMS then the more effective it is.
LRMs are no worse than any other weapon. People just like to whine about them because they likely don't use them. It is rather hypocritical to whine about ACs when you are running a Jag, for example.
There is a lot of truth to your post but it applies to a lot of weapons. The key is tactics and being smart. Do your best to play as a team. The more people that try to play as a team the more likely your side will do well. You do not need comms or premades. You need to pay attention to what others are doing. You need to support them.
Play a team game like a team game and success is more likely.
- LRM boats ARE overpowered. A hail of 4-LRM15s can destroy before you can even blink. All things considered, I was happier with the PPC-Gauss meta. At least I was killed by someone who had to aim and I could return fire myself.
- Bum rush only works when your team are mobile enough. Unfortunately, the current meta hardly resembles canon where mediums are the most common. Everyone is in a slow heavy/assault these days with lots of big guns.
- Watching an Atlas trying to bum rush LRM boats is a sad sad sight indeed.
- Charging as a group requires that everyone move at the speed of the slower mechs. Being slow is a bad idea vs LRMs.
- Of course, the lights and mediums can attempt to charge ahead first...except they will run into a wall of heavier brawlers who can easily fend them away from the LRM boats. Meanwhile, their own team's heavies and assaults are being pounded by LRMs.
Fact is the the LRM buff has just made is absolutely necessary for your group to have LRMs of their own in order to counter. If you don't, than your team needs to have the mobility (and the courage) to charge them. If neither condition is met, you lose. Simple as that. Therefore, there is no bum rush counter like you said. That's a fairy tale, since hardly anyone drives mediums these days.
Unless you are a light totally caught in the open, there is no way that 4 LRM 15s are going to one-shot kill you. That is a max of 66 damage spread all over the mech assuming you don't have AMS, your team does not have AMS and there is no cover.
As someone who runs a lot of LRM boats, I pretty much call BS on most of your comments. Sorry but most maps have plenty of cover and places to hide that allow lights and mediums to rush rush any lrm boats. The only maps this is hard on are Alpine Peaks and Caustic Valley.
Given that the perennial scrub favourite -- the LRM 60 Stalker -- does 66 points of damage in a single volley, I can only assume you haven't found the power button for your mech yet. That this damage doesn't require line-of-sight, or aim, and is delivered from ~1,000m, means you should be ashamed if you don't break 1,000 damage with some consistency.
The fix for the lurms is very straight forward. For one day, all of the teams from RHoD and MRBC, bring nothing but lurm boats to the public queue. The forums would crash under the weight of rage quit threads.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
You are a fool. There is no way that every volley of LRMs is going to hit its target especially if you fire indirectly. Your target will move behind cover. They will get under the ecm shield. Your "team mates" will fail to hit R or lose the lock. AMS will knock down about 15% of those if you have the brains to equipe it. Fire more than two LRM 15s at the same time and you are subjected to ghost heat.
Obviously you have never tried to run an LRM boat. Even more obvious you have never paid attention to the mechs that have the highest match scores. They are not LRM boats unless the LRM pilot is very good and gets a lot of help from the team.
Getting rapidly pounded by ACs will shake your screen as badly as any LRM volley and do a heck of a lot more damage. They force you to cover as effectively and you need to be quicker about it before you lose components or die.
I could go through all the reasons why LRMs actually take a degree of skill to use especially in pugs. Snipers can function in pugs and premades without much change. Brawlers are the easiest. You get close, circle a lot while shooting all you can. Doesn't matter if you are in a PUG or premade.
ECM will shut down LRMS. They are not 100% reliable in PUGs but if you stay close to the ECM mech it will help. AMS is the same way. It is more effective than it used to be. If you are dumb enough not to take AMS then that is your fault. The more people who take AMS then the more effective it is.
LRMs are no worse than any other weapon. People just like to whine about them because they likely don't use them. It is rather hypocritical to whine about ACs when you are running a Jag, for example.
There is a lot of truth to your post but it applies to a lot of weapons. The key is tactics and being smart. Do your best to play as a team. The more people that try to play as a team the more likely your side will do well. You do not need comms or premades. You need to pay attention to what others are doing. You need to support them.
Play a team game like a team game and success is more likely.
Ok I need to make a counter to this statement.
One of the issues of LRMs is indirect fire is too easy... A situation where you could possibly win quickly becomes GGCLOSE the moment LRM boats comes in and starts raining on you indirectly when you are trying to duel another mech.
Refer to below at 10min mark.... This is just to show that some people have an easier time (I was 1-2 alphas away from killing that Victor) dealing with Poptart PPC+AC meta because they follow the line of sight rule... They can't shoot you because you are behind cover...
Where LRMs care for no such thing...
Edit: By the way.. Saw you latest post.. You want to be treated with respect... Redact the insult or this how LRM defenders represent themselves ?
Why did PGI remove missile speed increase in the first place?
Because people whined an incredible amount about it. At the time I thought it needed reduced too but then I realized two very important things.
1) NARC got a buff at the same time. NARC actually is moderately useful now. So a lot of people who have wanted to use NARC were sticking it on their mechs and using it. That helped the accuracy of LRMs quite a lot.
2) One of the trial mechs was the Quad LRM 15 champion stalker. It is a terrible mech but since it was a trial a lot of people were running them to see what they were like.
The result was a week or so of a perfect storm: A free mech heavy with LRMS, a boost to the weapon system in general and a buff to NARC that stacked on the buff to LRMS. As a result, the LRMs were nerfed again.
Then what happened? The LRM Stalker rotated out of the trial line up which resulted in a major reduction of the number of LRM boats on the field. Players that messed around with the trial went back to their AC/PPC mechs. Without the large number of LRM boats to benefit from NARC, many people stopped putting the heavy NARC system on their mechs.
So now we are almost back to where we were before the LRM buff. You don't see too many LRM mechs in the field. People are back to rarely using NARC. The only actual change I have seen is that mechs are more likely to take that LRM 5 or 10 in that lone missile spot. There are some other mechs people are trying as LRM mechs because LRMs are more viable now than previously.
One of the flavors of Inner Sphere mechs was the mix matching of weapon systems. It is nice to see mechs actually running mechs with mixed loadouts rather than just boating as much as possible.
One of the issues of LRMs is indirect fire is too easy... A situation where you could possibly win quickly becomes GGCLOSE the moment LRM boats comes in and starts raining on you indirectly when you are trying to duel another mech.
Refer to below at 10min mark.... This is just to show that some people have an easier time (I was 1-2 alphas away from killing that Victor) dealing with Poptart PPC+AC meta because they follow the line of sight rule... They can't shoot you because you are behind cover...
Where LRMs care for no such thing...
Edit: By the way.. Saw you latest post.. You want to be treated with respect... Redact the insult or this how LRM defenders represent themselves ?
I'm not sure what you are even complaining about. That ridge you were standing by to take cover from the Victor? It wasn't protecting you from shots to your left. A poptarter would have hit you from there or even an AC Jager standing on the ground. All three volleys of LRMs hit you from the left/left rear quadrant.
Not sure what that video is supposed to show. You can even see the LRM boat launching in the third pic I screenshotted...he pretty much had direct line of sight on you. Check the minimap if you don't believe me:
One of the issues of LRMs is indirect fire is too easy... A situation where you could possibly win quickly becomes GGCLOSE the moment LRM boats comes in and starts raining on you indirectly when you are trying to duel another mech.
Refer to below at 10min mark.... This is just to show that some people have an easier time (I was 1-2 alphas away from killing that Victor) dealing with Poptart PPC+AC meta because they follow the line of sight rule... They can't shoot you because you are behind cover...
Where LRMs care for no such thing...
Edit: By the way.. Saw you latest post.. You want to be treated with respect... Redact the insult or this how LRM defenders represent themselves ?
Pop tart victors with weapons that are useable in every situation and have no counters do far higher pin point damage are easier to deal with then lrm boats (even when indirect firing, which gl with that on a pug full of professional trolls) I have no response to that statement so I shall once again call on yodas wisdom , .
One of the issues of LRMs is indirect fire is too easy... A situation where you could possibly win quickly becomes GGCLOSE the moment LRM boats comes in and starts raining on you indirectly when you are trying to duel another mech.
Refer to below at 10min mark.... This is just to show that some people have an easier time (I was 1-2 alphas away from killing that Victor) dealing with Poptart PPC+AC meta because they follow the line of sight rule... They can't shoot you because you are behind cover...
Where LRMs care for no such thing...
Edit: By the way.. Saw you latest post.. You want to be treated with respect... Redact the insult or this how LRM defenders represent themselves ?
1) LRM indirect fire is NOT too easy. That is the entire point. If you are brawling with someone and your enemy locks you (which amazingly so many people do not do) and an LRM boat is within range then yes you have a problem. That is called *teamwork*. If your opponent does not lock you or you can break the lock then indirect fire is far less likely to be effective.
I run LRM boats quite a bit and I have watched volly after volly of indirectly fired lrms slam into the ground because someone drops a lock right after I fire them. If I am really lucky the lock is regained while the LRMs still can adjust but often they fall to the ground.
2) LRMs do have the chance to turn a game around from a distance but that is their point. If an effective LRM boat or two turns a stomp into a close game then is that really so bad? Which is more fun for both sides: a close game or stomp? Interestingly I see more people complaining about getting stomped on these forums than having a close game. Actually I cannot think of a thread where people complained about games being close.
As for your edited comment, I did not respond to a post of yours with an insult so I am not sure what you are talking about. I can only assume that you are referring to my reply to D34K. Well sorry but when someone makes the idiotic statement that you can indirectly fire 4 LRM-15s and get 66 points of damage with each volly at maximum LRM range an entire match to consistently get 1000 damage then yea I will call him an idiot or a fool. That is not an insult, that is pointing out the painfully obvious.
Of course D34K's post was an insult to ther person he was replying too by stating that person was incompetent. Sorry but almost every anti-LRM thread is full of insults against those of us who run LRM boats. We like "easy mode", are "cowards", lack any "skill" are some of the most common things said. Almost every post simply ooozes contempt. Just look at the replies on this thread and you will see what I mean. Do you consider those posts "respectful"? I certainly don't but I've yet to see people take those posters to task. No, it is always those of us who are sick and tired of having to point out the painfully obvious truth about LRMS over and over again who get attacked.
To end this reply I will also point out the most painfully obvious fact of all: LRMS are a teamwork weapon. They support brawlers and snipers. They deny areas to the enemy which allows their teammates to move into position. They can soften up the enemy before the brawlers hit them. When fighting over an objective they can buy time by hitting people trying to cap. All of that and more benefits the *team*.
Conversely, LRMS work best when the team supports the LRM boats. When they lock targets and hold them, then LRMs are effective. When they protect and support LRMS then the LRM boats can do their job. When your team flushes the enemy into an LRM kill zone, then the LRMs can do their job. The less team work then the less effective your LRM boats.
Sniper mechs do not require teamwork at all to be successful. A good pop-tarting sniper following the PPC/AC meta is far more dangerous and just as immune to being hit back as any LRM boat. A brawler can be effective without a team especially if they are good. Team work makes both roles being easier but is not necessary to be successful.
At the end of the day, the game is supposed to be about *teamwork*. LRMs are the core of successful *teamwork*.
EDIT: Btw your video does not prove your point.
1) Compared to the DS coming in after you, you have excellent cover. You pop-tart multiple times and hit the DS with your PPCs (nice shooting btw) without taking much in the way of return damage. That you could be so close to an assault and deal out that much damage without getting pounded shows just how hard it is to counter a good pop-tarter. You only run into trouble with the DS when it reaches your cover and forces you to move. Which leads to...
2) As Lyoto pointed out, which I missed when watching the video the first time, the Stalker dropping LRMs on you is clearly visible on your left. It has direct line of sight to you and the ridge you are hiding behind tapers off which gives you almost no cover from that side. Even worse for you, you were right back against the canyon wall.. With the DS closing you had to back up to keep cover between it and you. Eventually you could not back up further and your only real option was to move to the right and try to get behind it. That is what you did. The downside is your retreat and flank attempt just put you completely into the open to the Stalker. You the minimal cover you already had and were basically in an open killing field. LRMS or not, you were extremely vulnerable to fire from that side.
Intentionally or not, your opponents worked together very well. You were caught between two threats and in a poor tactical position. Any AC/PPC/Laser fire from the left would have killed you just as easily as the LRMs did and probably faster as well.
I'm not sure what you are even complaining about. That ridge you were standing by to take cover from the Victor? It wasn't protecting you from shots to your left. A poptarter would have hit you from there or even an AC Jager standing on the ground. All three volleys of LRMs hit you from the left/left rear quadrant.
Not sure what that video is supposed to show. You can even see the LRM boat launching in the third pic I screenshotted...he pretty much had direct line of sight on you. Check the minimap if you don't believe me:
What am I complaining about ?
I am just showing a scenario where low cover can be used against a Poptart but useless against an LRM boat.
I am a Raven not a Stalker... I am small enough to hide behind low cover to making hidden from the victor's LOS. The only reason I move was because I am gettings LRMed as low cover was useless.
Flaming oblivion, on 04 May 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:
Pop tart victors with weapons that are useable in every situation and have no counters do far higher pin point damage are easier to deal with then lrm boats (even when indirect firing, which gl with that on a pug full of professional trolls) I have no response to that statement so I shall once again call on yodas wisdom , .
I have got nothing much to say to an 1 month old mwo padawan too. One day you will learn how to evade ppc+ac fire... Meanwhile go find Yoda to teach you...
Damia Savon, on 04 May 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:
1) LRM indirect fire is NOT too easy. That is the entire point. If you are brawling with someone and your enemy locks you (which amazingly so many people do not do) and an LRM boat is within range then yes you have a problem. That is called *teamwork*. If your opponent does not lock you or you can break the lock then indirect fire is far less likely to be effective.
My point being all direct fire weapons has it is weakness... Which is line of sight, even low cover can be very effective.
PGI might one day realise that the current LRM indirect fire mechanic is too cheesy and fix it... So enjoy it while you can...
On the other hand I am waiting for 3/3/3/3... I hoping more that LRM lovers will find themselves more vulnerable because they would be taking up precious heavy and assault slots.. Which is better spent on people who can defend themselves..
We will see how the game play evolves after tomorrow.
What am I complaining about ?
I am just showing a scenario where low cover can be used against a Poptart but useless against an LRM boat.
I am a Raven not a Stalker... I am small enough to hide behind low cover to making hidden from the victor's LOS. The only reason I move was because I am gettings LRMed as low cover was useless.
I have got nothing much to say to an 1 month old mwo padawan too. One day you will learn how to evade ppc+ac fire... Meanwhile go find Yoda to teach you...
My point being all direct fire weapons has it is weakness... Which is line of sight, even low cover can be very effective.
PGI might one day realise that the current LRM indirect fire mechanic is too cheesy and fix it... So enjoy it while you can...
On the other hand I am waiting for 3/3/3/3... I hoping more that LRM lovers will find themselves more vulnerable because they would be taking up precious heavy and assault slots.. Which is better spent on people who can defend themselves..
We will see how the game play evolves after tomorrow.
My 1st point is lrms have the most weaknesses out of all weapons in game, 2nd point indirect fire is about the only thing you have going for you as a lrmer and that's assuming you have a spotter gl with that on most teams. 3rd point you by your own words point out a lrm boat cant defend himself compared any other assault/heavy . Yet you want to force them out into the open so they're just easy kills . I see what your doing ....
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D34K, on 04 May 2014 - 12:16 AM, said:
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