295 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Zack Esseth, on 05 May 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

Koniving, on 05 May 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

WHAT IN GODS NAME IS THIS MADNESS. I see its a Kintaro but dear lord does that look like a jumbled mess.

Madness?
THIS IS LURMSA! (LRMs).
O_O

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Pariah Devalis, on 05 May 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

Aesthetics.

They are not universal.

So you actually like this redesign?? Come out and say it.

[Pariah Devalis]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 05 May 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

So you actually like this redesign?? Come out and say it.

Kind of a silly dare, but I will bite.

Personally, I like most of it. Will everyone? Nope. I should say some aspects of it are not precisely what I would like, but, hey, that is the nature of aesthetics, but saying THIS IS WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE, which is basically a demanding tone?


Kinda rude, actually.

There is a difference between respectful discussion of an odd design choice and demanding a design change because of a personal difference of opinion on a design. That is what I am getting at.

Hilariously, the design you linked was made by no FASA representative. It was made by a fan. Based on artwork of a mech that was never actually totally homogenous among its artwork. It shares as much with the original art work as the MWO model does. "Should" should never enter into the picture.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 05 May 2014 - 04:03 PM.

[Koniving]

Redshift2k5, on 05 May 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

Traditionally pictured in the torso, but it is technically arm-mounted. I suppose it could have went on the side of the shoulder joint, but this is where the concept art put it so

The concept art, though, had a cube-shaped launcher. This is a vertical launcher that serves to only enlargen the hitbox vertically and quite unnecessarily as well as look out of place.




At least that shape of launcher makes some sense.

This looks like they just ripped the Griffin 3M's under arm or the Wolverine's shoulder pod and said "And okay, done!"

On a random side note: Wonder why they shortened the front toe and made the side toe so long? Was that an animation concern? Uh-oh, I'm foreseeing Stalker animations.

Edited by Koniving, 05 May 2014 - 04:02 PM.

[WonderSparks]

Do you guys ever proof-read your stuff?
"Powered by a massive 340 XL Engine that giving a top speed of 64.8kph..."
Who wrote that? I want to scold them!

[Alaskan Nobody]

Pariah Devalis, on 05 May 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

Kinda rude, actually.

Only Kinda?

[Koniving]

WonderSparks, on 05 May 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

Do you guys ever proof-read your stuff?
"Powered by a massive 340 XL Engine that giving a top speed of 64.8kph..."
Who wrote that? I want to scold them!

I noticed that before the pictures.

>.>; But seeing the missile box made me forgive that, as the shape of the box not being a box but an oblong and awkwardly out of place thingy is a much larger oversight.
Actually there was just so much "O_O" that I literally forgot.

Edited by Koniving, 05 May 2014 - 09:17 PM.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Pariah Devalis, on 05 May 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

Hilariously, the design you linked was made by no FASA representative. It was made by a fan. Based on artwork of a mech that was never actually totally homogenous among its artwork. It shares as much with the original art work as the MWO model does. "Should" should never enter into the picture.

I posted it because it is a clear 3D rendering of the original FASA art. If you really have no clue what the original Warhawk looked like (not a long time fan I take it?), here is the original official side profile straight from the 1990 Technical Readout 3050 which I also have lying in my lap right now. Note cockpit is UNDER the hood... and the whole thing looks much better and more streamlined:

[NRP]

Holy hell this thing looks badass!!

Absolutely badass!!

[Alaskan Nobody]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 05 May 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

I posted it because it is a clear 3D rendering of the original FASA art. If you really have no clue what the original Warhawk looked like (not a long time fan I take it?), here is the original official side profile straight from the 1990 Technical Readout 3050 which I also have lying in my lap right now. Note cockpit is UNDER the hood... and the whole thing looks much better and more streamlined:

Take a look at the heights for that though.

20 ton mech less than 1 meter shorter than the 100 ton?
And people say PGI is making mechs to big!

[QuimMorius]

Love it! Well done PGI, well done!

[Pariah Devalis]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 05 May 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

I posted it because it is a clear 3D rendering of the original FASA art. If you really have no clue what the original Warhawk looked like (not a long time fan I take it?), here is the original official side profile straight from the 1990 Technical Readout 3050 which I also have lying in my lap right now. Note cockpit is UNDER the hood... and the whole thing looks much better and more streamlined:

Guess what? Chicken butt:







These are also all official art work (and a model). They vary the design of the cockpit a bit from one to the next. Some have a strictly vertical plate, some have an angled plate. Some have the weapons in the outright wrong place. Does it make any of them right or wrong? And do you have any right to DEMAND that they SHOULD do something SOME of the photos illustrate?

No. You never have a right to demand a change of aesthetics, even if the source material was consistent - which it is not.


By the way, nice attempt at a cheap shot at trying to undermine my credibility as a long time fan (lol, what is this, second grade debate class? Nah uh! Yes huh!) Been around since the 80's and loving every minute of it.

Edit:

But just remember, as much as the MW4 Warhawk's design must make your blood boil, someone out there loves it to death.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 05 May 2014 - 04:17 PM.

[Koniving]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 05 May 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

While I have no interest in your ongoing argument, I thought I might comment on this.
You do realize that the Atlas is 27 meters in the game, and and the Cicada is somewhere around 11 meters in MWO?
The Clan mechs are running around as little shrimps.

Another fun thing, according to the TROs, the Timberwolf is supposed to fit 6 of those Elementals inside of it + have ammo + be able to mount jumpjets + have room for all of its servos + 200 boxes of ammunition for its MGs. It can't even fit 2 of them + the engine according to that scale.

To continue this, despite the sheer size of the Centurion in some opinions...It is about 16 to 18 meters tall. Possibly more.


But the human character without alterations perfectly fits it. It was the first mech that the pilot properly fit in.

Though nothing says it couldn't have been a bit 'narrower' between the shoulders.

Given where the pilot is supposed to sit in the Atlas, the pilot does not fit. (Which is why the Atlas is always depicted as piloted from the nose).

My point is, given the height of the mechs, what the mechs need to hold, etc., that scale is impossible to follow as the mechs can't even fit HALF of what is supposed to go into them.

Pariah Devalis, on 05 May 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

These are also all official art work. They vary the design of the cockpit a bit from one to the next.

While one shouldn't demand changes... one thing every image you listed have in common is shielding the cockpit from above by completely shading it with an overhang, like a visor to a baseball cap.

Edited by Koniving, 05 May 2014 - 04:30 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Koniving, on 05 May 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

While one shouldn't demand changes... one thing every image you listed have in common is shielding the cockpit from above by completely shading it with an overhang, like a visor to a baseball cap.

I do agree there. That much is consistent. The MWO model does this as well, however, though to a far lesser degree. The question becomes "how close to a specific picture is the right one?" Clearly there must be some play involved in the design choices.

[Featherwood]

I totally approve FD's artwork and redesign, but... I still can't decide either I like what is on those 3 small pictures or not. It's really laughable, first it was some crazy resolution, now images scaled down to SVGA. Can we get more screenshots in proper resolution please? You could post them in Media section to avoid clutter. Nico, I summon you!

Nikolai Lubkiewicz said:

<quote this post and read it loud to summon me>

Seriously, give us good pictures of pre-order Warhawk from all directions, please (like you did for Stormcrow and Adder).

These 3 screens are significantly malformed by high FoV value of observer. Find a capable person to make your advertisements already or just admit you don't have a candidate and give a chance to those lads from the community to make the work for you - Lordred & Koniving are posting nice screenshots for a year already. It really pains me to see PGI's quickie again, why are you so f*** lazy there in Canada?

Technical comments:
I didn't get why Targeting Computer hasn't been mentioned in the description. Can someone clarify how TC will be realized in MWO?
As for scrotum-launcher - it looks disgusting, but I won't bother to use that Left-Arm-OmniPod-Prime at all, no hanging parts - no problems

[pbiggz]

having a hood would block sight lines.

The Adder's cockpit protrudes in front of the hood as well, despite it not protruding in the TRO art.

[Verkhne]

Hmmm my Atlas-RS with 4 large Lasers and 24 DHS could overheat like a fatman playing handball against a furnace. We need more details on Clan Mech customization

[Redshift2k5]

Koniving, on 05 May 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

The concept art, though, had a cube-shaped launcher. This is a vertical launcher that serves to only enlargen the hitbox vertically and quite unnecessarily as well as look out of place.

Looks fine to me. Can't please everyone!

and as a 3D modeler, yeah, I would've reused an existing missile box if that was my design pipeline. Gives me hope for a Vulture with the Timberwolf's legs and a Hellbringer with the Sumoner's legs- large portions of those mechs are already/nearly complete.

[Koniving]

Redshift2k5, on 05 May 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

Looks fine to me. Can't please everyone!

and as a 3D modeler, yeah, I would've reused an existing missile box if that was my design pipeline. Gives me hope for a Vulture with the Timberwolf's legs and a Hellbringer with the Sumoner's legs- large portions of those mechs are already/nearly complete.

I would've used the underarm launcher of the Kintaro; it'd be more pleasing. Or at the very least rotated the launcher to sit horizontally, it doesn't even take effort to simply rotate the launcher and attach it that way.


Like these in this very poor "MS Paint" made edit. Either on the side or the bottom.

Edited by Koniving, 05 May 2014 - 04:53 PM.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Koniving, on 05 May 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

My point is, given the height of the mechs, what the mechs need to hold, etc., that scale is impossible to follow as the mechs can't even fit HALF of what is supposed to go into them.

This isn't a debate about scale. I'm not saying PGI's model looks too big or too small, that remains to be seen. We're talking here about basic design features which PGI botched based on the very clear profile schematics provided in the original Tech readout vs. subsequent paintings/drawings by different artists (which all still look much closer to the original than PGI's borderline abomination). Unlike earlier and later tech readouts, tech readout 3050 provided precise profiles which gives an exact reference point.

Koniving, on 05 May 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

While one shouldn't demand changes... one thing every image you listed have in common is shielding the cockpit from above by completely shading it with an overhang, like a visor to a baseball cap.

You gets it here.